Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

First off I really mean it, second of all you will see a significant decrease of urban made maps and quality user made maps in general. Why you ask? well for those who don't even know how to use the ME Urban maps in dow aren't made the same as in other RTS games, theyre like lego blocks. Sometimes one building alone can take at least a full 30 mnutes to complete.

Second of all why would I slave on makiing a beautifuly aesthetic map when I know deep down inside some moron(Usually the A.I or worse a glue sniffing 12 year old kid from some far-off corner of the world) would just spam the map up with air unit's, bypassing every tactical obstacle I have painstakingly made, from initial concept to eventual 3d renderd fruition with full abandon?

I know I know, some of the moderate dow fans can argue unit cap and AA guns will fix the balance issues on these things. But guess what? that would only give basis for complaints for people who has that "Air power is superioty" philosopy grounds for complaints. And we all know that it's a bunch of bull unless they(relic) hardcap those flying contraptions to just 2 a piece. again paving the grounds for more complaints. Don't believe me? try playing any rts games that has air units in it. It's usually the side that has the most planes, bombers and whatnot who rules the map.

I know this rant won't mean nothing in the end but call it my parting shot to the people who stopped making games for their Hardcore audiences and decided to cater to the C&C and SC2 flyby crowd who wanted air units to go along with their power armour. If they really wanted an epic air battle why not go revamp the HW2 engine and make an official BFG game in the first place?

End rant. coz my left eye is complaining again.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

I'm guessing that Relic are going to hardcap the Air units because it will just be abuse of who can swarm the air units the fastest.

It's going to add a new level of play and it hopefully should add a whole new depth to it.

Maybe they will have flying units that can only effectively spy on areas like in Tides of Darkness, Warcraft 2 for you youngsters out there, which can't actually fire. Or maybe people carriers and only one sort of shooty type that is capped. We'll just have to wait and see.

But it is a worry agreed, not just for gamers, but for the hard working map makers out there who try to design a well thought out and playable map.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

i really dont want to use air units. since ive lived with tanks and infantry for most of my rts experience. Cnc allowed you to do this but you were limited with room. also the airforce generals was in my opinion overpowered since he blow missles out of the sky, the aurora bombers could doge bullets and missles and that was just it. spammin the king raptors.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

What they need to stop that?

Anti air guns. Plans cannot attack places with Anti Air implacements, its impossible, unless supported with troops. The Imperium use a large anti air gun with 8 autocannon barrels on a large base. They could have that as a building option which you could build in certain areas on the maps (like turrets) but only effective against air units. You have to remember through history, Stalingrad for example, they had air units but they where used for bombings etc. I think they just add to the engine the "Shoot what you can see" meaning you can't fire through terrian etc, that would make air units almost impossible for Urban games (which they are meant to be poor at).

I'm not to bothered how people play my maps, as long as they have fun on them thats cool.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

i also want to mention something that i just thought of. when wasturr said kin i remembered the eldar. what if all the races had the detector plan. that would put the eldar at a serious disadvantage.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Wraitcat posted this on another thread:


Observe how this thing just hovers above ground. Now think of the exploit that can be abused with such a system. Which means yes virginia! Two siege units and a swarm of these can end a game pretty quick. I wouldn't mind if they took the c&c systems where you need to contend for space and the air units returns for ammo but this is clearly more like SC or WC where you can just tuck in a group of this things and wait for the proper timing to overrun a base. not to mention that you can just churn out a swarm of these(Unless they're hard capped and I mean hard like the SL mod)

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

one. that is one big picture it took forever to load.

2. i forgot to mention the haveing to come back to reload thx for pointing that out.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

It all depends on what the flying units actually do. If they're like Fire Prisms and stuff then whats the difference? If they are just going to hover there then it's going to be like playing Tau or Eldar.

I'm sure they'll hardcap them like the Prisms.

They might hover higher than the Prism and have a heavy cover sort of value for normal troops hitting them and have abilities like dive bomb.

I don't know .. i'm getting kinda excited now ...WEEEE :p

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Or maybe they could just put a tau like philosophy techtree to it. You know like If you choose air units youll suck at ground based fighting.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Tau hardly suck any way and crisis suits are worth every magic bean in jacks sack.

Oo - er

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Air units could also cause tremendous lag if the size is right (or should we say not right) and would seem pretty wierd how it can stay sooo close to the ground. It'll be too much like Starcraft..

Now does anyone know the Game Command & Conquer Generals??? Now in this game they use Air Units in a very different manner (I believe Supreme Commander uses it the same way) in which the units come only briefly to support the ground troops and return back to dock.

In many FPS's the aircraft is used the same way, as brief support for tight ground procedures.

And I believe that Air Units aren't tooo common in 40K universe, so maybe they should play it like the game "Star Wars: Empire at War"

So it sums up that Air units should only be brief support (like a Special Ability) for the Unit Type to feel extra Special..

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

yea that would be a great idea. like a upgrade called like support. you click on your commander. click the support button. then choose between the diffrent fighters or bombers. something like world in conflict.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

The thing is, you can only traverse a piece of land once about every 90 seconds, and the area can not end in impassable terrain.

Whereas aircraft, well, they can go anywhere.
I don't want fecking warcraft micro where some one comes oveor a forest with planes, ignoring the entire terrain that the mapper put up, and then flying off to safety once they get hurt. Not to forget, a safety where only other aircraft can endanger them.

Also I can guarantee you, that the moment aircraft won't be hradcapped at 1, you'll get a bazzilion of "island" maps on dowfiles.
Island only reachable via aircraft.
and bonesinger of course, but most people forget that.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

pl air units meaning that there may be AA turrets

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Indeed, hopefully aircraft will be a game option. Mods can always have a hand in fixing issues as well. But overall I share your fears.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Which only means more micro for your defensive tactics. And the exploits that come with it is a nightmare to even think about. Ever played starcraft? Yeah build a lot of bunkers and turrets and that's just to protect one particular area.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

ok guys i think we should just wait till soulstorm is released and see what happens i think that air units will be hard capped as relic isnt stupid and also i cant wait to see if ig get the heavy tank transpots as this will make for different play having lemans droping in right on the action and possibly sm thunderhawks dropping large amounts of troops and what not into battle and possibly the land speeder will be made more of a flying unit able to gain altitude and engae units then swoop back down to the ground like normal....

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Just think of it in a First Person perspective in-game.. What would most want the aircraft to help or attack you??????

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

buts this isnt a FPS its a RTS which means there alot of tactics and variations so it has no bearing on a fps as there a up to 20+ squads and tanks fighting not 1 man vs an army ...there fore all sides having forms of aircraft it will be a tactical fight for both the ground and the air with forms of help and hamperage

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

id rather not have any. yes aircrafts will change gameplay very much. but im afraid to much. aircrafts are cool but it will just not be the same.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

hmm no aircraft cmon i mean arent you tired of a thunderhawk just dropping down a hq or a valkyrie or viper just dropping down parts for the ig ????

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

no. its what i lived with. if you add vehicles its just like adding. bannana pieces to a strawberry yogurt. it tastes good but its just not like the original.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

yeh i can see where your coming from but after awhile strawberry gets boring and you want somthing outragous like choc caramel suprise .....i mean you cant always have your cake and eat it you have to take the good with the bad being aircraft but im sure that given time youll find them to be a huge help if there is the insertion of various AA vechlies and turrets ...

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

When I meant FPS i meant in a tactical way.. If anyone hasn't played
Call of Duty 4, aircraft played a very important role by striking heavy enemy positions when it became a problem for the ground forces..

I don't see too much difference in both game genre's I was aiming to specify on the aircraft not the gameplay..

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

so what you saying is that instead of full control of aircraft youd like more abilities like various airstrikes and such ???

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

I guess you could put it that way, I believe that the player should feel that the aircraft should be an ability that is rare and should be used in the most dire of situations.

If it isn't this way we will have players abusing the ability and probably will be spamming a whole fleet of fighters.. this will be the best christmas gift for rushers
;[

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

yeh i agree on the spamming part but theyll definalty hard cap if it already isnt in a patch and also i think that aircraft might be a higher tech weapon with weak ones first progressing into fighter/bombers later as you do in veichles and infantry but i urge you not to make your judgement yet until you trial the aircraft and see how they play ...

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

As long as it keeps the game in a tactical feel.. I don't want this to turn into Command and Conquer

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

yes cnc was more spamming units since there were no limits but it was sometimes cool to see mass armies killing eachother.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

You just hit the mark there!!! Those aircraft will definitely steal the thunder from the true stars of the series which are the infantry The only thing that made the series stand apart from the rest of the c&c clones was beco'z it focused more on the infantry tactics of combat. And those damn air units will take it away if not made right.
Hell!!! The original and D.C itself still got a lot of issues regarding imbalance and those last 3 games don't even have aircraft in them yet.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

there is also the fact that the necrons will be nerfed since they dont have anymore units.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

I think they'll keep the necron unit a secret.
It isn't said in the demo what they will have, even though all the others have something listed
But it says on another place - that the 7 old races will get a new unit.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

From what i've heard the Nec's won't be getting a flying unit ... if thats what you're talking about.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

yea thats what im talking about. and they have no more units serving as AA units.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Maybe they will do alternative to the Gauss Turret?

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

like a mobile gauss turret?

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

Yeah!!

A Gauss Turret pushed around by a Necron Lord in a pinny and a hat wearing Marigolds.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

actually they have one its called a necron pylon
its shaped like a sickle and has eldar warp lightning in the middle cept green
its been found on dead planets (scourged by ancient necs) and is like the monoliths crystal in the DC intro

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

A pylon is their anti titan monolith.

AA units? But no race has dedicated AA units. At least it appears so. It be a joke, considering that aircraft will probably be limited to three to all races.

As for thier new unit. Who knows, but it will definitely be something.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

my big problem is how unrealistic the air units are. i mean come on they just hover. the imp air unit is a freaking bomber for gods sake. bombers dont hover. id understand if they just used a bunch of gunships for a ll the races. but they're using fighter craft.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

soulstorm is still in production. nothing is final.

Re: Those blasted Air units are gonna be the death of me and my kin.
 

I think we need to remember the jets cant hover and need to use strafing runs then go back to reload/ (unless there like jump jets :P)If used corectle then this will be a good add on.

Think back to War Zone 2100 VTOL's worked well there (well its a bit of a different game i guess lol) as long as you can build AA guns and lots of 'em your base will be impentrable to bombers. If every race gets a AA tank/s then air units would be usless.

Kais246 (Lt Sim)

P.S. Sorry for my bad spelling. :P