Who is the better Primarch Rogal Dorn or Sanguinius or another one

[Gunface138]

Damn Warzone it's just an opinion forum, not like he's gonna win a contest...
And we all know Night Haunter kicks ass.

Leman Russ is cool, but mostly because of y'know, vikings. And wolves. That's pretty awesome. Their battlecry could be every Amon Amarth song ever.

But Sanguinius could just fly over the battlefield, teabagging everyone who dared stand in his way. High-five for flying teabag.

[karkinelite]

Have to say Horus is the best. Only because he kinda was the favorite of the primarchs, And he only turned to chaos because of that damn word bearers chaplain seducing mostly all of the high ranking luna wolves and than planted that "primarch killer" on davin so they would have to take him to a place to heal were Horus would be weak enough to be seduced to chaos. It also says after right before the emperor ended Horuses life that the emperor felt the sanity return to his son for his last moment.

[Warzone3]

Very goo point Horus was amazing and was the best Primarch out their in the Emperor eyes

[chaoslordnoga]

Mortarion of the Death Guard Pre-Heresy.

[SkidKid]

I would have to say that Sanguinius was probably the best at close combat, Horus was chosen to be Warmaster because he was a supreme diplomat as well as an unparalleled commander. Horus was only equaled in his tactics by Lion El'Johnson. Lion El'Johnson was probably better then most of the other primarch in close combat but he wasn't the best and he had horrible diplomatic skills. Angron was pretty good at close combat as well but he was far too reckless and brutal to defeat Sanguinius. Leman Russ was strong but he was not the best the reason the tank is named after him is because he either found the STC for it or he designed it. Magnus the Red was not very good at close combat but had very strong psychic abilities to relay on. Even so Leman Russ had a difficult time fighting Magnus and was unable to capture him. I was never very impressed with Perturabo, Fulgrim seemed like a pushover, and Conrad Kurze was killed by an imperial assassin. Alpharius was said to be killed by Guilliman. Guilliman had his throat cut by Daemon Fulgrim, I've never held much respect for Lorgar but he started the heresy. Mortarion was very resilient but I don't know much else about him. Ferrus Manus was great at building things and had C'tan metal hands but he was decapitated by Fulgrim. There is a story behind every Primarch and each one has his strengths and his weaknesses. I would say that Sanguinius is the best fighter, El'Johnson is the best strategist, Horus was the best leader, Lorgar was the most persuasive. Ferrus Manus was the best builder, Angron was the best at slaughter, Conrad Kurze was the best at scare tactics, Alpharius/Omegon were the best at covert ops, Roboute Guilliman was the best at organization, Rogal Dorn and Perturabo were both great at defense, I think Perturabo was slightly better though and Rogal Dorn was more well rounded. The List goes on but Horus was chosen as the best Primarch because he was the best leader, he was a supreme diplomat, he could create intricate and perfect strategies as good as Lion El'Johnson, his Marines were considered the best of the best, He was among the better fighters among his brothers, and he was the first to be found by the emperor and was fighting the crusade for the longest. To set things right Horus was lured into the situation on Davin and its moon by First Chaplain Erebus but once he was in his nightmare vision Horus saw through Erebus's lies and choose to accept the things that the warp showed him even with Magnus the Reds warning Horus choose to embrase the warp to prevent what he'd seen in my opinion. Little did Horus know that the only reason the future would turn out the way it was in his nightmare was because he sided with the warp.

[SteviEboY]

Ok, I can see a few things wrong here.

You revived the thread before it had it's first birthday, shame on you

Have you ever heard of paragraphs? Reading that post is painful!

Now, lets try and dissect your monstrosity of a post eh?

Originally Posted by SkidKid

I would have to say that Sanguinius was probably the best at close combat

Reasons please?

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Horus was chosen to be Warmaster because he was a supreme diplomat as well as an unparalleled commander

Yes to the above, also because Horus was the best choice for the position of Warmaster. The Emperor did not choose Horus just because he was the favoured son, he chose him because he was the best choice of all the Primarchs.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Horus was only equaled in his tactics by Lion El'Johnson.

There are other Primarchs that you could attribute this to such as Alpharius and Corax. I think you are wrong to say tactics, Horus was rivalled by both The Lion and Leman Russ in victories.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Lion El'Johnson was probably better then most of the other primarch in close combat.

How so, do you have instances you can back this up?

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Angron was pretty good at close combat as well but he was far too reckless and brutal to defeat Sanguinius

I see your point but Angron was possibly one of the best Primarchs in close combat.Angron might be full of rage but he is a cold calculated and skillful killer.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Leman Russ was strong but he was not the best the reason the tank is named after him is because he either found the STC for it or he designed it

No, the Leman Russ STC is originally from Mars and the tank is simply named after him in his honour.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Magnus the Red was not very good at close combat but had very strong psychic abilities to relay on. Even so Leman Russ had a difficult time fighting Magnus and was unable to capture him.

Magnus was not one for phsyical combat but his strength was supposed to rival that of Russ, Russ had a difficulty time fighting Magnus on Prospero because he had sold his soul to Tzeetnch and had been granted Daemonhood to save himself and the Thousand Sons. If Magnus had been in a fair fight then he probably would have got a wuppin'.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Fulgrim seemed like a pushover

Ok, Fulgrim is a Primarch and in no way a push over. He kills Ferrus Manus, an Avatar and a Wraithlord. A pushover? Just because he wears make up doesn't mean that he is a wuss. His struggle for perfection makes him one of the most skilled Primarchs around. Sanguinis wears make up to, does that make him a pushover?

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Conrad Kurze was killed by an imperial assassin

Yes, because he let the assasin kill him. He knew he was there ... take this quotes please

Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your false Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Alpharius was said to be killed by Guilliman

.

Was he, according to a 62% accurate report from an Ultramarine that even they don't believe. The IA article says that he is, but the events of Legion could suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

I've never held much respect for Lorgar but he started the heresy

Did he, or did Kor Phaeron?

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Ferrus Manus was great at building things and had C'tan metal hands

Necron metal hands a possibilty, but the fluff on Asteroth was written before the Necrons were around.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

was the first to be found by the emperor and was fighting the crusade for the longest

That we know of, what about the other two?

[SkidKid]

SteviEboY
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
I would have to say that Sanguinius was probably the best at close combat
Reasons please?

I would have to say because he killed a Bloodthirster of Khorne single-handedly in close combat that would rank him up there. I just think he would have been the best at close combat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
Horus was only equaled in his tactics by Lion El'Johnson.
There are other Primarchs that you could attribute this to such as Alpharius and Corax. I think you are wrong to say tactics, Horus was rivalled by both The Lion and Leman Russ in victories.

Thats true but Horus still had the most victories. I also believe the way Horus set up the heresy with the battles in the Istavan system and all of his carefully planed moves fooled all of the loyal primarches except Lion El'Johnson. In the book Fallen Angels it depicts the Lion predicting and intervening with one of Horus's plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
Lion El'Johnson was probably better then most of the other primarch in close combat.
How so, do you have instances you can back this up?

First off Lion El'Johnson killed a calibinite lion with his bare hands, second i just see him as being more of close combat fighter and i like him a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
Angron was pretty good at close combat as well but he was far too reckless and brutal to defeat Sanguinius
I see your point but Angron was possibly one of the best Primarchs in close combat.Angron might be full of rage but he is a cold calculated and skillful killer.

Thats true but when we are comparing him to the other primarches I just find him lacking especially when he had such a hard time controlling his blood lust. Angron and Vulkan were the only primarches that would have died had the emperor not intervened, and Angron was the only one to not have the respect or loyalty of the entire planet he was on before the emperor found him i'm pretty sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
Leman Russ was strong but he was not the best the reason the tank is named after him is because he either found the STC for it or he designed it
No, the Leman Russ STC is originally from Mars and the tank is simply named after him in his honour.

I'm pretty sure I read some fluff somewhere that said he designed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
Magnus the Red was not very good at close combat but had very strong psychic abilities to relay on. Even so Leman Russ had a difficult time fighting Magnus and was unable to capture him.
Magnus was not one for phsyical combat but his strength was supposed to rival that of Russ, Russ had a difficulty time fighting Magnus on Prospero because he had sold his soul to Tzeetnch and had been granted Daemonhood to save himself and the Thousand Sons. If Magnus had been in a fair fight then he probably would have got a wuppin'.

You have that wrong the only reason Magnus did well against Russ was because he used his magic to increase his own size and he punched and broke Russ's breastplate but when he drew back his first for a second punch Russ grabed on and kicked Magnus in the eye. Thats when Magnus received help from Tzeetnch which was teleporting the city of light into the eye of terror.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
Fulgrim seemed like a pushover
Ok, Fulgrim is a Primarch and in no way a push over. He kills Ferrus Manus, an Avatar and a Wraithlord. A pushover? Just because he wears make up doesn't mean that he is a wuss. His struggle for perfection makes him one of the most skilled Primarchs around. Sanguinis wears make up to, does that make him a pushover?

I've read all of the Horus Heresy books and i'm just not impressed with Fulgrim, yes he was a Primarch but he was about to be killed by Ferrus Manus when his demon sword saved him. Then after being manipulated for several years by a demon Fulgrim had killed his favorite brother and the realization of what had happened to his legion and his brothers and what he'd done was too much for him to take and he gave in to his demon sword. I know that Fulgrim was a decent Primarch before but I've only read fluff that makes me think less and less of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
Conrad Kurze was killed by an imperial assassin
Yes, because he let the assasin kill him. He knew he was there ... take this quotes please

Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your false Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication.

Yes I do like Conrad Kurze and I think his use of fear tactics is imaginative and combined with his ability to see the future and his skill with what I think are lightning claws he was a formidable and powerful primarch. I know he let the assassin kill him but he was also punished several times for going too far in the emperor's eyes and was thrown in jail by other primarches suggesting that weather he went willingly or not he could have been over powered by the other primarches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkidKid
Ferrus Manus was great at building things and had C'tan metal hands
Necron metal hands a possibilty, but the fluff on Asteroth was written before the Necrons were around.

In the book "Fulgrim," Ferrus Manus's fluff is reaffirmed as he killed a worm made of C'tan living metal by drowning it in lava and when he pulled his hands out they were covered in C'tan metal. He also changes his hands into weapons several times in the book and is able to craft the most intricate of weapons with his hands. He also had beaten Fulgrim and was about to deliver the death blow when Fulgrim discarded his weapon and drew his demon sword and was imbued with its power allowing him to destroy Ferrus Manus's weapon and then decapitate Ferrus.

As far as the missing two Primarches I'd like to think they were awesome to but we have no fluff on them so we don't know.

For all of you non Sanguinius fans check out this picture http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...1&d=1239872194
and then just try and find a reason not think Sanguinius is awesome.

[CSM1]

We can view that on your profile.

[SteviEboY]

Originally Posted by SkidKid

I would have to say because he killed a Bloodthirster of Khorne single-handedly in close combat that would rank him up there. I just think he would have been the best at close combat.

Much better, that's a good reason. But the same Greater Daemon also beat him in combat on Signus Prime.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Thats true but Horus still had the most victories.

Yes, like I said, Leman Russ and The Lion rivalled Horus for victories. Your closest rival could have 1 victory where you have ten.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

I also believe the way Horus set up the heresy with the battles in the Istavan system and all of his carefully planed moves fooled all of the loyal primarches except Lion El'Johnson. In the book Fallen Angels it depicts the Lion predicting and intervening with one of Horus's plans.

I agree with you on the Horus part, after Davin and the battles with the Technocracy Horus had been planning his rebellion and his plans were fully in motion by then. Istvaan was about weeding out the Emperor Loyalists. The Raven Guard, Irons Hands and Salamanders found this out the hard way.

You are incorrect in regards to Fallen Angels. The Lion was aware of the events of Istvaan and it was common knowledge that Horus had gone rogue thanks to Captain Garro. The assault on the Forge world was to prevent Horus resupplying.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

First off Lion El'Johnson killed a calibinite lion with his bare hands, second i just see him as being more of close combat fighter and i like him a lot.

Other Primarchs have killed greater beasts with there own hands, by your reconning this would make them better hand to hand figthers then The Lion.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

Angron and Vulkan were the only primarches that would have died had the emperor not intervened, and Angron was the only one to not have the respect or loyalty of the entire planet he was on before the emperor found him i'm pretty sure.

You seem to read the Horus Heresy novels and have an uderstanding of the universe. Read 'after De'shea' this is what Angorn is. Angron's planet was not loyal to him because he was a slave and a mere source of entertainment. His true family and brothers were the other slaves. They had made him their leader and he showed them respect and loyalty.

Angron is for martial honour and glory, the Emperor shattered these emotions when he saved Angron from death. Angron has been doing anything in his power to piss the Emperor off ever since that day. That's my take on it anyway.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

I'm pretty sure I read some fluff somewhere that said he designed it.

STC technology is from the Age of Strife and before the Unification Wars, long before the Primarchs were born.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

You have that wrong the only reason Magnus did well against Russ was because he used his magic to increase his own size and he punched and broke Russ's breastplate but when he drew back his first for a second punch Russ grabed on and kicked Magnus in the eye. Thats when Magnus received help from Tzeetnch which was teleporting the city of light into the eye of terror.

No, Magnus was the largest and most mutated of the Primarchs. Read the Index Astartes article on the Thousand Sons. It specifies that his strentgh was supposed to be that of Russ.

As the Space Wolves descended on Prospero and wreacked havoc and death on it's defenders Magnus called for aid from the Warp, Tzeentch answered and Magnus took to the field of battle. True, Tzeentch saved Magnus and the thousand sons from certain death - but the pact with chaos was made before this.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

I've read all of the Horus Heresy books and i'm just not impressed with Fulgrim, yes he was a Primarch but he was about to be killed by Ferrus Manus when his demon sword saved him. Then after being manipulated for several years by a demon Fulgrim had killed his favorite brother and the realization of what had happened to his legion and his brothers and what he'd done was too much for him to take and he gave in to his demon sword. I know that Fulgrim was a decent Primarch before but I've only read fluff that makes me think less and less of him.

Ok, this is one more for opinion then. Fulgrim is my favorite Primarch, well the one from pre Sabretooth and Horus Heresy novels anyway. The one from these does not match well with the Fulgrim and Emperors Children that the likes of Slaves to Darkness described.

Originally Posted by SkidKid

In the book "Fulgrim," Ferrus Manus's fluff is reaffirmed as he killed a worm made of C'tan living metal by drowning it in lava and when he pulled his hands out they were covered in C'tan metal. He also changes his hands into weapons several times

Ok, i guess i missed your meaning. I thought you were implying that Asinoth, not Asteroth, was a C'tan. Asinoth appears to be a necron construct of sorts, maybe some kind of Guardian.

I don't think Ferrus could actually change the shape of his hands, I just think he used them like weapons rather well.