Star Trek enterprise

[Rojan]

Have any of you seen Archer's ship? To me is looks almost
like the akira class.

[Mr. Matt]

Yes, the Akiraprise. I remember the complaining when the series premiered. It always seemed lazy to me.

[Rojan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Matt

Yes, the Akiraprise. I remember the complaining when the series premiered. It always seemed lazy to me.

That is the same thing I thought.

BTW did you like the message I pmed you?

[Rojan]

As the episodes continued I must say the shows better.
Also there was one episode it had the ISS Enterprise
it also had the constitution class USS Defiant.
Think back to one of the TOS shows as I remember
it had Spock and some others on the Defiant.

[Master Lindale Mustaparta]

Personally, I think the Akira, Oslo, Zephyr, and Thunderchild classes may have canon actually all been evolutions of the NX design. Sure, at least a century separate them, but that means little to designers. I mean, the Miranda Class has been in service for close to 200 years, and the Shi'Kahr Class was an evolution of the design.


So, Miranda begot Shi'Kar.
NX begot Akira, Oslo, Zephyr, and Thunderchild.

[Mr. Matt]

From a structural engineering point of view, simply up scaling a design (and flipping it upside down as though we wouldn't notice) doesn't work.

And from an in-universe point of view, no other time have we seen a shop copied so exactly from a model hundreds of years previous. Why would the 24th century Starfleet feel a need to copy a ship design that they retired so long ago? This never happens in real life, and it never happens in Star Trek. And if the design was so effective that they copied it centuries later, why stop building them in the first place?

Worse still, we've seen ship designs prior to the Constitution - they look nothing like the Akiraprise in any way.

All of these are excuses for laziness on the part of the producers, however. I remember people arguing at the time that had the designers come up with an actually appropriate ship design for the period that it would look ridiculously outdated. I point them to the new Star Trek movie - as much as I dislike the film, and what they did to the beautiful Enterprise, they at least managed to make the ship look up-to-date without sacrificing the overall design. Proof that it can be done, if you put in the work.

Although I don't see why it needed to be done at all. The Enterprise was hawt before. Now it's an overweight CGI monstrosity.

[Nemmerle]

You can have different designs emphasising different design compromises. But the Akira is a rather marked departure from standard starfleet design philosophy. Which I liked at the time. Make a small, tough warship and mass produce it - and this not usually being something that starfleet does it results in different decisions being made. Fair enough, maybe no-one had thought of it before. I've always been rather fond of the Miranda class too, now we get down to it - which the Akira class is transparently derived from.

But they'll have made those decisions because they represented an advantage. (Either that or they're operating with feudal level management technology ) And every warship you make to fulfil that role in the future will follow that pattern. The Enterprise on the other hand comes from, and leads to, a massively different visual and role-based history than either the Miranda or the Akira. It's like if someone presented you with a heavy cruiser as nothing more than an enlarged torpedo boat. It's ... wrong.

Personally my outlook on the Enterprise line of ships is that they're probably a waste of money. Aesthetically they're very pretty - but they've got those long spindly bits and a huge profile and they don't seem to do a lot with all the space they have. Though it depends on how expensive rare components are. If your main expense is the warp core - the stuff you use in that is super-valueable - then it makes a lot of sense to spend a hell of a lot on the surrounding ship to protect that investment as compared to making a similar investment twenty times in smaller ships that'll just get blown out of the air. And then you have questions like how much human life is worth to you - things like that. But one way or the other if there's a torpedo boat out there in common use, you won't be building battleships that aren't designed to operate as part of a flotilla anymore.

You seem to find warp cores all over the place though, so that's no excuse. Even runabouts have them.

Originally Posted by Mr. Matt

And from an in-universe point of view, no other time have we seen a shop copied so exactly from a model hundreds of years previous. Why would the 24th century Starfleet feel a need to copy a ship design that they retired so long ago? This never happens in real life, and it never happens in Star Trek. And if the design was so effective that they copied it centuries later, why stop building them in the first place?

Spoiler:

[Rojan]

Think back to another episode where they saw a ship
allways modifying itself. The borg remember first contact?

[Mr. Matt]

Originally Posted by Nemmerle

You can have different designs emphasising different design compromises. But the Akira is a rather marked departure from standard starfleet design philosophy. Which I liked at the time. Make a small, tough warship and mass produce it - and this not usually being something that starfleet does it results in different decisions being made. Fair enough, maybe no-one had thought of it before. I've always been rather fond of the Miranda class too, now we get down to it - which the Akira class is transparently derived from.

But they'll have made those decisions because they represented an advantage. (Either that or they're operating with feudal level management technology ) And every warship you make to fulfil that role in the future will follow that pattern. The Enterprise on the other hand comes from, and leads to, a massively different visual and role-based history than either the Miranda or the Akira. It's like if someone presented you with a heavy cruiser as nothing more than an enlarged torpedo boat. It's ... wrong.

Personally my outlook on the Enterprise line of ships is that they're probably a waste of money. Aesthetically they're very pretty - but they've got those long spindly bits and a huge profile and they don't seem to do a lot with all the space they have. Though it depends on how expensive rare components are. If your main expense is the warp core - the stuff you use in that is super-valueable - then it makes a lot of sense to spend a hell of a lot on the surrounding ship to protect that investment as compared to making a similar investment twenty times in smaller ships that'll just get blown out of the air. And then you have questions like how much human life is worth to you - things like that. But one way or the other if there's a torpedo boat out there in common use, you won't be building battleships that aren't designed to operate as part of a flotilla anymore.

You seem to find warp cores all over the place though, so that's no excuse. Even runabouts have them.

Spoiler:

There's a difference between being inspired by something, and being a flipped-over copy of something (as if the concept of upside down even makes sense in space).

And as I recall, Federation ships are designed the way they are because of some kind of technobabble laws of physics. In TOS even Klingon warships roughly followed them (the two nacelles are positioned so that there is a line-of-sight between them). There can only be two warp nacelles, they must be able to 'see' each other, they must be mounted as far away from habitable areas as possible and preferably as close to aft as possible, etc. Warp field dynamics is an invented science that deals with that kind of thing. The reason the Excelsior-class was supposed to be quite fast was because its space frame was 'warp streamlined', whatever that means.

B&B took over the series and ditched all of that, of course (first only two nacelles were permitted, then only even-numbers of nacelles, then apparently three nacelles, followed by one in a few alien ships), but that's why shit looks the way it looks, apparently.

[Rojan]

Not to get off the subject but look at the steam runner
class.