Removal of Fleet Operations mod and prohibited upload of the 1.2 game patch

[The Joelteon7]

Star Trek: Armada 2, Star Trek: Armada 2 Downloads - Removal of Fleet Operations mod and prohibited upload of the 1.2 game patch

As a forum is easier to put down opinions and arguments, we've opened this thread up so that you can have opinions about the above article from the main site. Do you agree with the decision? Do you think it wrong? Say it here. The staff will try not to say too much, as it is your point to put down opinions, but do remember rules still apply here. We will have no flaming or anything to drag the quality down of the thread. This is the only warning you will receive.

[F-Bobby]

wow that really sucks. i was actually thinking of downloading it again to try it on the newer computer i got. im wondering something though, i thought that fleet ops has been around for a few years. Why is it gettin taken down now?

[The Joelteon7]

I will actually step in and answer that one. Simple as the fact that you may notice things differently at different ocassions. Additionally, different staff members might have approached it in a different way and with a change of staff between some versions, it's hard to keep on top of what is right and wrong about different aspects if information available to you is out of date or inaccurate. If that makes sense.

Further to that, rules are enforced to different levels. I'm not saying that we're the be all and end all of law and rules on Armada Files (I'm sure you can find files that breach rules somehow. We're not perfect, but we do our damndest to make sure the site is as good as it can be ) but we do try and enforce them. For example, we've recently enforced conversion rules.

I guess it comes down to the point that there are many reasons and it would take an essay to explain each one. But, we're doing something about it now and I believe, even if it's late, it's better than never. Not to shun the question though, this thread is more designed for people to share their opinions, rather than ask us the questions. It's 'your' thread, not ours.

[[Sonic]uk]

As long, as the golden rule is being followed, you will get no complaints from me, i understand that you guy's are looking at the bigger picture here.

nb :- the golden rule = treat everyone the same, and the way you would like to treated.

[Freyr]

Originally Posted by The Joelteon7

I will actually step in and answer that one. Simple as the fact that you may notice things differently at different ocassions. Additionally, different staff members might have approached it in a different way and with a change of staff between some versions, it's hard to keep on top of what is right and wrong about different aspects if information available to you is out of date or inaccurate. If that makes sense.

Further to that, rules are enforced to different levels. I'm not saying that we're the be all and end all of law and rules on Armada Files (I'm sure you can find files that breach rules somehow. We're not perfect, but we do our damndest to make sure the site is as good as it can be ) but we do try and enforce them. For example, we've recently enforced conversion rules.

I guess it comes down to the point that there are many reasons and it would take an essay to explain each one. But, we're doing something about it now and I believe, even if it's late, it's better than never. Not to shun the question though, this thread is more designed for people to share their opinions, rather than ask us the questions. It's 'your' thread, not ours.

I will just add to Joel's points here that in addition to the rules being enforced to varying levels, at the time it was uploaded it might not have broken the rules in place. Filefront was bought by Ziff Davis media some while back at which point we became subject to their rules, which were different to the ones that were in operation before then.

[Optec]

And i thought this topic is finally and completely over. For around five years we put our free time in the Fleet Operations Project, adding to the Armada2 Community. At the moment we are working on the Armada2 1.2 project to allow all moders features beyond the usual ODF editing..
And now Fleet Operations is blamed again. Although i seem to have missed for what exactly. It has to do with the EULA as it seems.

Lets first have a look at the Armada2 original License. You can find it on your Armada2 Disc or on the last pages of the printed manual of course. In the first lines it is clearly stated what the license is subject of. Basically all data and files included in Armada2. Thats a typical juristic phrase you find an all Software eulas. It is also stated that the word "program" refers all this software.

IMPORTANT - READ CAREFULLY: YOUR USE OF THIS SOFTWARE (THE "PROGRAM") IS SUBJECT TO THE SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS SET FORTH BELOW. THE "PROGRAM" INCLUDES ALL SOFTWARE INCLUDED WITH THIS AGREEMENT, THE ASSOCIATED MEDIA, ANY PRINTED MATERIALS, AND ANY ON-LINE OR ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTATION, AND ANY AND ALL COPIES OF SUCH SOFTWARE AND MATERIALS. BY OPENING THIS PACKAGE, INSTALLING, AND/OR USING THE PROGRAM AND ANY SOFTWARE PROGRAMS INCLUDED WITHIN THE PROGRAM, YOU ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE WITH ACTIVISION, INC. ("ACTIVISION").

Thats as clear as it can be written. Now a around the middle of the page you can find the "what you are not allowed to do" section. There you can read...

Reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, decompile, or disassemble the Program, in whole or in part.

Now thats the shocking part. As mods are - by name - modifications of the game they are completely forbidden and not allowed within the common armada2 license! The ODFs, SODs, Textures, Readmes, Texts etc are all part of the Armada2 Program. So Armada2files would look quite empty

The only way a mod is allowed by including the extra license added with the Armada2 Editor. It allows...

The editor contains certain design, processing utilities, tools and other resources for use with Star Trek: Armada II that allow you to create customized new levels and other related game materials for personal use in Star Trek: Armada II.

As you can easily see "other related game material" is not a very clear term, that could mean everything. Therefore another line has been added...

New Game Materials shall not contain modifications to any COM, EXE or DLL files or to any other executable Product files.

And i think thats the point all the stuff boils down to.
Fleet Operations does not include any modified COM, EXE or DLL files.
Fleet Operations includes the Armada2 Editor Readme and license file.

We put much effort in creating Fleet Operations. We were able to add some features the moding community like the race-colored shields which will be in a future armada2 1.2 patch for all mods. But - at no point - we did break the EULA. We do just a little more then the normal ODF editing. All executables of armada are untouched and fully operational in Fleet Operations.

Fleet Operations is legal .

[AdmarilRyan]

I disagree with the decision, but appreciate that it is not mine to make, I think that technicallities that MIGHT have been broken in the law are less significant than benefit to the community as a whole.

[cecilzero1]

i know this was a very hard decision to make dont take it out on them guys they are interpreting the FF rules and A1 EULA the best they can

[IKS]

Originally Posted by Optec

We were able to add some features the moding community like the race-colored shields which will be in a future armada2 1.2 patch for all mods

Optec can you tell me how you did this as I would like to know how this was done? Did you port the shields from Legacy or did you find a new way to do this as I am curious

I think the staff have the best interests of the community at heart and they've obviously made a decision and stuck with it...

[Freyr]

Optec, The 1.2 patch does contain modified DLL files and we also expressed concerns about modifications to the executable. Doca explained that you had made similar modifications in the fleet operation mods which is why they were removed. On the subject of their legality when we raised it, your own team leader described it to us a few hours ago as a "grey area".

Now, you have one of two options.

Firstly you could attempt to undermine us to a point where we are forced to change our stance because of public opinion or leave and hope new admins take over with a different view on this. Firstly this is quite risky for obvious reasons and secondly it wouldn't help you as we were directed to take this stance by our superiors and therefore should we leave our replacements would have the same instructions.

Or secondly you could discuss this with us in private. Personally I think this would be preferable as I don't hold any enthusiasm for grandstanding to public opinion in competition with your team on this issue.

[DOCa Cola]

as side note: i am not the leader, i just do project organisation.

Originally Posted by IKS_YO_MAMA

Optec can you tell me how you did this as I would like to know how this was done? Did you port the shields from Legacy or did you find a new way to do this as I am curious

i don't want to make this thread to go too offtopic, so i just want to say it has nothing to do with legacy but with a lot of programming work.



as for the grey zone i have talked about earlier in the mail i sent to you: yes, we have one modified dll in the patch which is the networkmanager.dll. optec didn't know about that, he was not involved much in the programming part. anyway, without that modification noone using windows vista will be able to play online anymore, not a too bright future for the armada community. isn't that grey area enough? i could try to squash that bug without modifing that dll -> more work for me, but if that clears this situation we have here then it would be fine for me and everyone will be happy. what do you think?

[thunderfoot006]

So the entire mod is verboten? I understand about the alleged EULA violation, but it seems a shame all that work went for nothing(so far). Is there a way to remove just the offending part and still have the mod available for download? Staff have a responsibility here to ensure this site isn't exposed to uneccessary risk, else it all shuts down. I am not happy when any mod has to be pulled for any reason because they all make my game experience better and more satisfying. However, reading the news item and the various posts leads me to think there is a way around the problem.

[ColdDarkParanoia]

i was under the impression that the exe issue had been solved when it was brought up about a year ago on AFC? Also thats a valid point about vista compatability. We want the game to continue to run on computers or it will die out. Will Fleet opps still be avalible for download else where? along with the armada 2 1.2 patch? That could be away around the problem if the rules of this site don't allow the mod. Keeps everyone happy that way

[Ragnar]

Gotta say like, I never downloaded the mod, but putting it away because of an edited .dll is understandable. It was a violation, and maybe you could've tried to get permission from MadDoc or Activision to release a patch on their behalf. Would you not be allowed if you provided proof that you did contact them and got their permission? Assuming they would even gave you it.

Well anyway, I gotta with ColdDarkParanoia, A2 will die out if Vista goes the way it is going. Forever at anytime I have a computer with 'older' games, I'll have my XP disk right alongside. Theee original 'Home Edition'

[kel333]

I respect the heck out of the Fleet Ops team. They've made some groundbreaking, and professional looking, material. Much of which is very helpful and user friendly.

It's a shame AII's no longer supported by it's creators, which is why I'll keep supporting AII Files and it's affiliates. Anyone who does as much for the community as the people at AII Files and/or FO gets my full attention.

That said, we must remember that this site has it's own rules (and it's own interpretation) and must abide by them. Personally, I wouldn't worry about InactiveVision or PoreAmount, as they've abondoned this project. But the site needs to play by the rules and make nice, since it's integrity is on the line.

Individuals can afford not to worry, but imagine the risk to a site who's subject to imperious action, if found in the wrong. Anyway keep moding and we'll stick with you.