Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

:lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdDarkParanoia but screeming seems to help! lol

What did I tell ya? :p

:D Glad you are glad about that :lookaround:

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Ok, CDP, here we go... Working from the HMS Tempest file available on a2files as a baseline:

First, I went to the Groups tab, and clicked hide on all the groups. Then I deleted those two straggler vertexes. Unhideing everything, I then replaced the textures as described above. (Don’t keep the old labels either) Also, you could use one material per tga. So you could then select the two saucer groups and then click apply on the one material. (Ether method has its advantages) Anyway, notice when that’s done the drive section turns black. Now, go to Edit, Select None, then go to the Groups tab and select the two drive sections (bridge). And now, click the Face menu, then Reverse Vertex Order. The model should then look a lot better. Also, it’s important to have each group have a unique name. So, rename the last two groups to like saucer2 and bridge2, and then rename the two joints to m_saucer2, etc. Then they should show up in-game. Hope that helps, Have fun!
:cheers:

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

yep i followed that, but still i have a few gaps in the hull, im trying to post a picture

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Yeah, I forgot a step. :D

The joint tree uses h_lod1 and h_lod2, that might also be why it’s not showing up. When I removed the tree and used the Hardpoints Tool to make a new one, it all showed up.

:smokin:

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Did you do it like in post #27?

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

i got! i'v done IT!!!!!! took a while but i got there. there were many problems with it, but thanks to all your help i'v final got it work! i like to say a big thank you to evey one thats helped especialy Slider17,

1st i have to reapley the texture, by deleting the exsisting one's then realying them
2nd i duplicated the modle,
3rdly re-did the tree

once again thank you!

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

That's cool, glad it's working, but really, it's just the beginning... have fun! :stallard:

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

I'm gonna sticky this thread, it seem's to have quite a few useful things in it that will help others in the future when/if they decide to pick modelling up. Good work guys.

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Whey, More Issues (Still haven't sorted sorted out them lightmaps yet either Slider) :p

Anyhow, it has been said back somewhere, but sometimes, you import a model, and parts are all over the place (something to do with the vertexes not being connected). Nevertheless, when you put these models in-game, they work as they should. So the model isn't really screwed.

My question is this: Is there a way (using Milkshape 3D) to sort this out, and to see how the model how it looks in-game?

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

SSA, yes, there are many more issues (like texture application techniques), but I think this thread has been a good start. :D
And with the model not looking right, do you mean the mesh is physically messed up, or that ships look like white blobs? (And when I made alpha channels in the tga’s for that hideki, it looked good in-game. If you want to switch to paint shop pro, I could help you further. But again, I would keep Adobe, it is a much better program) :nodding:

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

What took ya? :p

Right... The Mesh. You open it (them) up in MS3D and parts are scattered. Take (for example) The Excelsior Version I have: The necelles are not joint to the engerneering section, and the "what would be the blue glows on the necelles" aren't attached to the necelles. The saucer is also backwards and various other parts are scattered.

The thing is, although this is what it would look like in MS3D, when you put the ship(s) in-game, they work perfectly... - I hope you get what I mean by this. If not, I shall post a screenshot later on once home. - If you do know what I am on about, I need to (somehow) join them together as they should be. There must be a tool or something... Just I don't know about it.

As for lightmaps and textures. Lightmaps I *may* know how to do, Yacuzza put foward a part of Photoshop that I didn't know about, and it has lightmaps in this part, I've yet to test this in-game though, so will have to keep all posted.

As for Texture Application techniques - I assume you mean applying a texture to a new model? - I tried this yesterday, but have no idea where to start lol.

Edit:

I'm home now (god college was so boring) - But anyway, I've taken a shot of what I get for the Excelsior Model I am using - and what it looks like when loaded into MS3D.

Note however, when you put that ship in game, the parts are together and there simply is no problem.

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Well, that is bizarre... I’m guessing this is a conversion??? Haven’t run into this exact type of problem, before but... it could be worse. I’ve had the opposite, where it’s fine in milkshape, but the parts are messed up like that in-game. My question is this: When you click on the Joints tab, and click on the joints labeled, m_saucer for example, are all the joints in the same place, or spread around?

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Nope, the models in question aren't conversions. They are built from scratch - As for the joints (when selected) they appear to be where they should be (if the ship was together) - Screenshot Attached.

I did plan on redoing all the joints for all the models in question, though seeing as I have this "problem" I decided to leave these models until I can figure what is going on.

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

in assim view (and the map editor) my hardpoints are all out of allignment. ive read above and need help to sort this out. All hardpoints are in the correct places in milkshape i cnt figure it out and havent got the patient or the accuracy to move them up ALL up in asim view.

what i want to know is wat causes this problem? and how can i solve it this time and not get it to happen next time?
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/774...apeview2bv.jpg

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Well, first, if the models are from-scratch in milkshape, then why did the author detach the saucer and nacelles? It doesn't make sense. I mean, they are probably conversions from 3DS Max or another modeling program.

Second, all the mesh joints should occupy the same space. When clicking on the different m_ joints, it should look like the same joint. Is this the case? Lastly, did you get my e-mail?

Now about this spacedock... If I recall, this is from the POTD a few days ago? Well, I think we’d all like to see this in-game so here we go... (joint trees are difficult to explain though guys:banghead:)

For example, if the joint tree is showing and then you press Select All, then the entire model is selected, including the joint tree. Now if the model is moved, the group moves, but the joint tree will experience an amplified movement. Meaning, the joints at the base will move correctly, but the higher up the tree, the greater the movement, so it gets distorted. This would effect the lights and hp’s for example. If this has ever occurred, I would delete the tree and start again.

Another way joints can get distorted is if the parent node is turned. For example, if h_hardpoints is turned, the joints may be distorted in the game, assimview, etc. :smokin:

Of course, without seeing the model to examine the problem, it’s just a guess. You’re welcome to PM me and I’ll take a look at it.

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Well, I haven't got any mail from you...

Nevertheless, I spoke to MaP about the problem via MSN yesterday, apparently the models were made in 3DMax, and (with the way they were created) the developer didn't "finish up" correctly.

I spent the majority of yesterday evening, moving the parts of the model(s) around to make them look how they should be, and then weilded the parts (MaP seemed to think this would do the trick) - I haven't had chance to try them out in-game yet though. I should get around to doing that sometime late next week.

I just can't / couldn't work out how, if the model works in game, why it looks messed up with MS3D. That much is beyond me apparently. Anyhow, thanks for the help.

As for the space dock, I don't know what is with that. Though you are in the right place to find out (Slider is a pro with MS3D) ;)

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

its ok i found out how to sort out the hard point trouble

u just gotta put h_hardpoints exactly in the centre (think co-ordinates 0,0,0)
i just missed but for now im fine with this much success i will prob redo the lot in the near future

here a screenshot - i put it in the pictures of the day but theres about a que of 50 :p

thx for all ur help and ash that tutorial link helped alot - i learn quickly :)

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8...andcube4kw.jpg

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Yeah, that will do it. And SSA, the e-mail was just about the excelcior. But I think you're on the right track. You're just going to have to move the meshes around. But I'm curious to hear how they look in-game now, heh. :D If they're still giving you grief, try re-doing the tree.

And just some advice, the joint tree is my very LAST step. If I don't do it last, I just end up having to re do it anyway, so...:rolleyes:
But glad to hear the progress!

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

hehe that picture above is ingame :) with an addition of a lens flare in adobe :eek: i impressed my self

one more question i dnt know what your talking about when u talk about this 'tree'. so my question is WAT TREE? :uhm:

edit: ok i get wat u mean the parent nodes withe the subparent nodes - the connected thigns lol i havent moved them at all thats the problem as it was out i deleted the tree and started again (this time over the origin (0,0,0)) and proceed as i did b4 to get them in the right places :( this time i havent a clue how to get them perfect

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

You are welcome regarding the help 9999 :) - Though, Domination - This a MOD in progress? Or just something to add to your PoTD's?

Also, the "tree" - simply put, is the joints and such, so... "h_hardpoints", "h_geometry" etc etc - It's called a tree because various parts branch off (an example would be the h_hp01, h_hp02" would branch off from the "h_hardpoints".

As for the tree's on these ships I had trouble with. I removed the loot :p (kinda figured I'd start from scratch). But I shall keep you posted on how the ships do look in-game, and when I get around to them. Thanks for the help anyway Slider :) - Much appreciated.

Problem with Meshes
 

Hi,

I am having trouble with a model I'm making in Milkshape. It keeps asking for a mesh but I don't know how to bring one in. Or do you??:confused:

Also how can you design a ship? Milkshape has a plane, sphere, box and cylinder option but the plane never turns up.

I'm sure this has been answered before, and if so I apologise for repeating but I would love to release my own model so please help. :bows:

Thread Merged with MS3D Thread
- SSA

Re: Problem with Meshes
 

Hmm I used to use milkshape for modelling before I got 3ds max but I had 1.6.6 so I didn't have a plane. But I know what it is, it's a 2-d shape, you should use a box to create that instead. To make a saucer use a cylinder, and a cylinder for the engine hull. As for a mesh I'm not sure, it never once asked me for that. It's been a whle since I built anything in MS3D. There is a section in the BBOM about creating a model in Milkshape.

Hope this helps, sorry but I've gotten used to 3DS max, the only thing I use Milkshape for is hardpointing.

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Thanks SSA for merging this thread. You've actually helped me. You see the white lines on the spacedock underneath the blue joints - is that the mesh?

If so how can you draw a new one? Or can you modify an existing SOD? That's the bother I'm having. The blue lines are joints and I don't think will make the ship appear as it should. Am I right? :confused: :confused:

Thanks amatuer but boxes and cylinders are not what I want - unless I can edit the shapes. Can you have more than one shape per model?

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

I have very little modeling experience but, from what I've read, the "joints" are like the skeleton and the "mesh" is like the body. If that's true, I think you need to attach the "bones" to the "flesh". I can't remember what the process is called, anyone?

As for drawing (or modifying) a mesh, I believe models are created using things called verticals? or triangles?... basically 2 dimensional lines intersecting to form a surface (and 2 or more surfaces form a 3D object) that can be manipulated (moved around and resized) to form a shape.
Once you have a 3D object (new or old), you can select those intersections (or a group of intersections) and drag or edit them in different ways.

Now, if you want to start from scratch, that's where the shapes come in... You choose a shape that will be easiest to reshape to fit the object you want to create. If you want more than one shape, you can repeat the process until you have all the shapes your object requires. I think there's a way to "weld" them together at certain points.

I hope this info is not too far wrong. Just a layman's take on what I've heard. If anything I've said is wildly inaccurate, I hope someone will correct me.

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

ok im kinda of new to milkshape and i only import
answer to question: you can edit any standard shape in milkshape u just select one of the select options and it selects the individual points that make up that shape u can then move them to where ever you want

as for joint yes this could be why your models arent showing up in game take a look at: http://armada2.filefront.com/info/maptut

hopefully that will help you :beer:

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Archerscott, yes, in Milkshape, you can have multiple shapes, or Groups as they are called. And, yes, boxes, cylinders and spheres are all you’ve got to create your dream ship. :) If you watch The Simpsons, remember the one where Marge returns to painting? Some art styles say that everything in life can be reduced to these basic shapes. Milkshape lives by this philosophy. By the way, what were you planning on making?

Milkshape Crashes during MOD to SOD conversion
 

I am having the darndest issues with Milkshape 1.7.7.a. Some MOD files I get from SFCIII or Battleclinic.com crash the Milkshape program when I import them in MOD format. I'm not sure if its a memory issue or what, number of polys, etc. Is anyone else having this problem? If so, share some secrets.

Now I do have the right importer dll's installed, I even tried using the MESA dll.s. I have a great machine to run it on too. :rolleyes:

Re: Milkshape Crashes during MOD to SOD conversion
 

is it instantaneous? my randomly crashes sometime i just save it lots.... if it does it the moment u import i dnt kno i aint had that probelm

Re: Milkshape Crashes during MOD to SOD conversion
 

If its crashing during the import proceedure then its down to either poly count or vertex count being to large for MS3d.

Re: Milkshape Crashes during MOD to SOD conversion
 

As Major Payne said, it is likely to be because you are trying to inport a model with a very high polly count. MS3D simply can't handle it, thus crashes.

I notice you said you are getting your files from Battleclinic. This is likely to be the reason as to why this is happening. Battleclinic (although hosts loads of lovely ships) does so for the SFC series, of which allow high pollied models.

Re: Milkshape Crashes during MOD to SOD conversion
 

Merged with MS3D Thread.

Hmmm, I shoulda thought of that. Which I did, but needed confirmation. Thanks!

Thats what I was afraid of. Well, guess I'll start saving for MAX then. Speaking of which, have any idea when they will come out with the import dll.s for MAX 8?

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Thanks Slider17, that's very useful. If only the other shapes were ovals, semi circles and triangles!!

There is another tool called Vertex, but all that happens is I place dots around. Do these link up? Can I outline a shape? or do they serve another purpose?

I don't want to say what I'm building as I want my first ship to be a surprise!

I'm still having trouble with a mesh, the shapes don't register as a mesh and neither do the m_ things I attach.

Can you add different things like - m_wings, m_mainbody instead of saucer and nacelle etc.?

Also one final question please, in ST:ArmadaII, the construction ship doors open, is this a texture thing or jointed in the model? Can it be carried over??

Any more help would be great!

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Hi all, well, a couple of things...

wildcard621, in addition to what’s already been said, there is a trick you might try... A long time ago I was trying to convert some .mod Tholians from Klingon Academy I believe? Anyway, I know what you mean, you click the icon to open up the Milkshape program, then go to File, Import, and then the model you select crashes the program. But, I’ve noticed, that when I import one or more .mod files successfully, (by importing one and then going to File, New) and then I go back to one of the files that crashed before, it will now import! But next of course, you would go to File, and Save As, because this is a slippery one! :sillyme: Hope that helps!

Archerscott, actually, it’s kinda good that you didn’t answer my question because it would have been really off topic. :rolleyes: When making or working on a model, I never use the Vertex, Face, or Extrude buttons, I’m not sure they apply to an armada modeling setting.
Or maybe I just don’t know how to use them! :Profiler: But I do know that when first starting, it’s important to see that there are two Vertex and Face buttons. The ones I mentioned are on the Model tab under Tools. However, when using Select, Face and Vertex will appear under Select Options. That panel and the Scale button is really the key to modifying shapes in Milkshape...

And now, about the door question... That is an animation and with Milkshape, I don’t know how it can be done. I think that key frames and rotating not only the mesh, but the mesh joint as well are involved, but I’m not sure. I think that can only be accomplished with 3DsMax, but I would like to be wrong. I use the h_bot joint though, so the bees at least go the correct place on the model! :kerian:

Lastly, the Group name is what goes after m_ on the joint name. But keep it to like one word or something. Heh, Word. :cheers:

Lightmap
 

Hi, i have converted a bridge commander ship into armada using milkshape3d, but no matter what i do i cannot get the alpha channels to work correctly. I end up with either the ship glowing irrespective of ambiant light, or just the alpha channel showing and most of the ship invisable. Any idea what im doing wrong? the orrigional model was downloaded from this address
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com...ttleship;39008

I also attach the converted model and textures

Re: Lightmap
 

erm... lets see if I can help with this.

You know in MS3D, you have two texture plots? Where you select, and then select the texture(s)? Well, you only want the top one with anything on, and in the bottom (2nd one) you want nothing.

With this (I am assuming here you have access to a graphical package, such as Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro)? Well, with this, and with an open file (.tga) you have (within the "layers windows") a "channels" tab.

There are usually four images in there, one of the original, one of blue, one with red and another named green. These represent the "RGB" in the textures folder.

Anyhow, using the magic wand tool, you can select areas (on textures) that you wish to glow in-game. With this, you then save them (by right clicking over a selected part, and going to "save") and then name it "Alpha Channel". This "should" sort out your problems. :)

Re: Lightmap
 

:moved:

From: Modding & Editing
To: Problems, Errors, Help & Others

Re: Lightmap
 

thanks for your reply. I tried doing that but when in game, only the alpha channel shows. Any other ideas?

Re: Lightmap
 

erm... Where you have the Alpha Channels (in that "channels" tab) are the selected parts (the parts you wish to glow) black or white? They should be white, with black background.

I've made the mistake before of inverting the selection, having the whole ship glowing, and the necelles and deflector disk not doing.

Other than this however, I can only guess that is the problem (unless it is something with the MESH).

Re: Lightmap
 

Merged with MS3D Thread (forgot to do it last time).

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Thanks for the help thus far! I got all the right points where they should go. :)

I'm still stuck on the meshes though. No matter what I do, I keep getting the error message:

'Couldn't match a mesh with mesh node' This happens when I try to export in Armada 2. SOD file.

Whatever shape I use, I type the name in the m_ line.

Does any-one know what I might be doing wrong? :confused: Should I re-name the shape??

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

@Malta
It doesn't sound like this is your problem but there's an obscure issue with some Gfx cards not displaying some models properly. For those systems, you need to set the Bumpmapping in the A2 options menu to "off" to get the right effect on those models.
Hope this helps.

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

My favourite Error.

From past experiance, and when I have had that error, it simply means that the joint tree is wrong. Either you haven't named one of the "m_name"'s correctly, or something else is wrong.

Check EXACTLY. The "m_" joints must be exact to the mesh group names. And you must have an "m_" joint for each of the groups. Also check for capital letters and such.

lighing nodes for milkshape
 

Re: lighing nodes for milkshape
 

Hello CDP! Hmm, I wonder why no one uses the Milkshape thread? Maybe if it was stickyed it would look more permanent? Anyway, I’m guessing you mean modes? because I’m not aware of any “nodes”... :confused: But there are some different approaches you can use.
The first one doesn’t use an alpha channel in the texture. :smokin: Say the hull is one group, for example, and the dish and nacell edges are the second group. You can place a tag on the texture for the first group (the one that doesn’t need to glow) and just put _!noalpha on the end of the texture name. That way you can save space on the texture however, if you need to have some “windows” glow, the second method will be better. :nodding:
The texture has the glow information in the alpha channel and the model uses the !phong_texture.tga_!default tags, but you don’t need to put those, they are there by default. :lol:
:deal: The short answer, the texture tags are the only way to change the way the game uses lighting. Hope that helps?

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

Hi,

No, I tried changing the names but all the joints got wiped. I welded the bits together too.

Is there some-one who could look at what I've done and advise please?

I'm definitely getting the nodes right as the right bits go green.

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

I can take a look if you want to PM me, but I would approach the tree like in post #27. Have you tried that method? It will make a bunch of the joints for you, then you can add lights, hps, etc. :smokin:

Re: Milkshape 3D
 

thanks slider17 :)