AIP's and you.

[Freyr]

With a bit of prompting from a thread yesterday morning I finally got around to doing some more work on the AI which has confirmed a few points that I thought I had better post for everybody to benefit from.

Someone needs to write a coherent manual on this for future modders. As there is a requirement for it to be coherent I think that excludes me from writing it by definition, so someone else had better do it. Anyway...

I discovered when working on some of the campaign missions that it was worthwhile putting some bits of code in the build lists to get the AI to act more sensibly. Recently, going back and testing assumptions I have noticed that other mod teams had made the same discovery years ago, and right up to this day.

However, i'm becomingly increasingly more certain that we shouldn't have done that and in doing so we have been making fundamentally incorrect interpretations of the Armada AI works.

The build list should only contain a list of things to build. It should remain clear of any other parameters.

The other parameters should be drawn from another file, which only contains those parameters. I'm calling this the personality. As an interesting note although all of the files relating to the AI carry the extension AIP, I do wonder if they are AIP's as the term was intended to mean.

I think the mad Dr. I should be considered the expert, and reading some of his comments and observing his coding style is interesting.


a2_borg04_defensive.aip has the following comments:-

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//
// defensive.aip
//
// AIP = Artificial Intelligence Personality
//
// Basic defensive AIP parameters.  Protect the base, don seek trouble, etc.
//
// By Dr. Ian Lane Davis
//
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

In a2_agressive.aip this note is prominently plastered across the top of the screen:-

// A basic aggressive aip for Armada 2 (any race).  You need a build list!
//
// Dr. I

Now, going back to the mad doc's other little bit of work in a2_borg04_defensive.aip the build list (contained in the file) at the bottom is very clearly separated out from the parameters at the top with a line of hashes entirely covering the screen followed by:-

// the_build_list

Thus, I'm thinking that the term Artificial Intelligence Personality may have been intended to be applied only to the file containing the parameters defining the personality parameters rather than any file with an dot AIP extension.

However, if this was the case then he confused his team just as badly as us judging by the other interpretations used throughout the files, so calling it that is probably not a good idea. Lets just call it the personality.

Anyways, that's getting a long way off the topic.

Its long been known the skirmish AI picks different build lists, for which reason we have simply saved the same build list in each different file. We shouldn't have done that either.

Playing a skirmish on hard, (game observations transcribed from my notebook here) the personality starts as a2_hard_aggressive, around the time the AI discovered the enemy the personality switched to hard_exploration, the next change i'm not certain of the cause of, but I beleive the loss of it's sole scout switched it back to a2_hard_aggressive and it stayed that way until it had managed to take the dilithium moon next to it's enemy's base, at which point it switched to very_aggressive for the final base assault.

Thus, it's obvious the computer is quite happy to change the personality and the build list mid game depending on what is going on. So far, I would say that personalities are linked to specific AIP's as follows:-

Personality - Build list

a2_hard_aggressive - offensive_list
a2_hard _exploration - instant_action_build_list
a2_hard_defensive - defensive_list
Very_aggressive - endgame_list

Which would appear to leave race_build_list unused. The use of 3 of those personalities/build lists is documented above and defensive is used, um. For defense. We could use more evidence, but I have seen it used when the AI lost it's only resource base. It could well use it when any outlying base is nuked, but that is open to debate at the moment and i'm sure we'll nail down the exact causes for each being used eventually.

Both easy and medium AI's seem to use the same files, but without the "_hard_" prefix on the personality files. I haven't as of yet noticed the "_modified_" personality files being used.

Oh, the campaign uses the personality files as well.

You can access the developers debugging tools when the map editor is installed. Search for "debug" in input map for the keyboard shortcuts, being able to see the AI debugging data with it's current resources, personality and build list is somewhat useful.

Anyway, i'm now going to have a go at writing a personalities and build lists to create an AI which might actually be dangerous, but I thought i'd take a few minutes to post this publicly as I think it's only fair to share anything we learn that is genuinely "new", especially when other people might find it as useful as this has the potential to be.

[FallenGraces]

soon as i saw the name of the thread i knew it was you only man to torture himself like this lol. Sounds interesting, like the switch the Ai makes mid game, always believed them to be preset parameters. Im throughly scared of the Ai build list and intend that to be the last thing i do for the mod. but im looking forward to this new AIP build list now.

[pepperman]

So what I hear you saying is that we should have a unique build lists applicable to the task at hand. For example, a unique build list for locating the eneny (maybe fast ships with unique specials, such as long range scanners); a unique build list to eliminate the enemy; a unique build list to protect the homeworld/base, etc. Each of these build list could have ships/stations designed for that specific purpose in mind.

[Freyr]

Originally Posted by pepperman

So what I hear you saying is that we should have a unique build lists applicable to the task at hand. For example, a unique build list for locating the eneny (maybe fast ships with unique specials, such as long range scanners); a unique build list to eliminate the enemy; a unique build list to protect the homeworld/base, etc. Each of these build list could have ships/stations designed for that specific purpose in mind.

Yes, you should have different build lists for different situations and you should pay as much attention to the personality of the AI as the build lists.

I'd just mention as well you don't need heavily customised ships for this. scouting works just as well with a large bunch of scouts, attacking the base is what we are all used to, and defending can just mean that you start mass building turrets and set the personality up so the AI hoards it's ships for defensive operations and deploys entire fleets defensively instead of keeping launching kamikaze raids.




Just to give some idea of what can be achieved. I've been customising a (stock) Klingon AI today.

I started a game as the federation, with that Klingon AI plus a version of the Cardassian AI I did for Dan with the non stock units stripped. The word slaughter can't do justice to the amount that the Cardassian AI was outclassed.

To give you some idea. I was pumping out battleships from the earliest possible moment with the exact same resources the AI was. Neither AI was cheating one iota.

After the Klingons killed off the cardassians I thought i'd kill it off and finish the game, just because. The Klingon AI spotted me coming, recalled it's fleet from mopping up the cardassian base and we had a battle royale over an otherwise undefended mining operation. It won. I lost 30+ galaxies and was forced into a withdraw with the remaining units. It then followed me home... into an ambush.

It spotted it immediately, turned around and avoided the heavily defended side of my base (!) nuked the mining operations outside of the heavily fortified area and came around to the undefended area of my base and had another scrap with my fleet (with fire support from turrets). When the AI realised it was losing, it pulled back a bit waited for reinforcements and came back again. I killed most of them, then went to take out their mining operations to reduce it's shipbuilding abilty (it was roughly equivalent to me, but the klingon 'Ral is a bit better than the galaxy)

It realised and countered with everything it had and our fleets fought to mutual oblivion. Then it attacked me again. I have played A2 online for years and I can remember having teammates far worse than this AI is. If the game hadn't have crashed (it's a somewhat less than stable development copy) i'm not sure if I could have actually won. In a follow up game this afternoon it managed to do the same thing.

Personally, i'm inclined to say with the balance of power that the AI was winning both games when they crashed.

I'm going to shift to a slightly more stable install and keep playing, because i'm actually finding this quite interesting.

Originally Posted by FallenGraces

soon as i saw the name of the thread i knew it was you only man to torture himself like this lol. Sounds interesting, like the switch the Ai makes mid game, always believed them to be preset parameters. Im throughly scared of the Ai build list and intend that to be the last thing i do for the mod. but im looking forward to this new AIP build list now.

AIP's are as easy as ODF's when you know how to do them, and I find them more interesting because hardly anybody has looked into them before so there are still (new/undiscovered) things to learn. You can't really say that about ODF's.

[FallenGraces]

hmm no comment on the odf crack lol
as for the AI sounds almost as hard as Achilles was in Alliances that was an amazing mod all around though the Ai still had the same issues (came in though the HARDEST route possible) looked like a slaughter fest beore the rest of the ships reached my base and those where pretty nasty as well. To be honest though that point was often late in the game and i had already lost a lot. Though to hear this and possibly find an A2 equal makes me hunger for more lol. Sounds great and if Dan's cardies where outclassed i gotta see this new one in action. Always been a fan of long bouts no matter the game and genre the longer it is the more it makes you think lol, if im gonna waste time on games wanna use my brain at least lol. Thxs for the info man.

[the Starfleet Kid]

Originally Posted by Freyr

AIP's are as easy as ODF's when you know how to do them, and I find them more interesting because hardly anybody has looked into them before so there are still (new/undiscovered) things to learn. You can't really say that about ODF's.

Hey, there's plenty of sexy and exciting things still out there waiting to be done with .ODFs. Like, uh..... starfields. And fancy new special weapons.

I think the problem with AIPs (in terms of modding discovery) is that they're too big picture for many modders. Getting one ship to fire one weapon or two? Or even a set of ships built from a set of stations? That makes sense. Getting a whole race to do that THEN build AND fight the way you want them to, relying on knowledge of tactics, strategy and overall fierceness, AS WELL AS simple build sequencing and troubleshooting? too long; didn't mod it.

[Freyr]

Originally Posted by the Starfleet Kid

Hey, there's plenty of sexy and exciting things still out there waiting to be done with .ODFs. Like, uh..... starfields. And fancy new special weapons.

I think the problem with AIPs (in terms of modding discovery) is that they're too big picture for many modders. Getting one ship to fire one weapon or two? Or even a set of ships built from a set of stations? That makes sense. Getting a whole race to do that THEN build AND fight the way you want them to, relying on knowledge of tactics, strategy and overall fierceness, AS WELL AS simple build sequencing and troubleshooting? too long; didn't mod it.

Actually, that is a very, very good point. Few modders have the knowledge of tactics, strategy and an indepth knowledge of the cost/buildtime effectiveness of the units in the game. Without all of those you can't really write a really effective AI.

I shall ammend my previous statement.

Producing a technicially functional AI is as trivial as writing an ODF, producing one that'll kill a human without cheating is not.

Originally Posted by FallenGraces

hmm no comment on the odf crack lol
as for the AI sounds almost as hard as Achilles was in Alliances that was an amazing mod all around though the Ai still had the same issues (came in though the HARDEST route possible) looked like a slaughter fest beore the rest of the ships reached my base and those where pretty nasty as well. To be honest though that point was often late in the game and i had already lost a lot. Though to hear this and possibly find an A2 equal makes me hunger for more lol. Sounds great and if Dan's cardies where outclassed i gotta see this new one in action. Always been a fan of long bouts no matter the game and genre the longer it is the more it makes you think lol, if im gonna waste time on games wanna use my brain at least lol. Thxs for the info man.

This AI should do better than that, though i'm still looking at if the AI does actually figure out where it can't afford to attack or if it's just dumb luck. Besides, i've hardly written the build list at the moment, i'm still just playing with the personality stuff.

That said, is anybody interested in having a play?

[FallenGraces]

Originally Posted by Freyr

That said, is anybody interested in having a play?

Of course i am would love to sink my teeth into this.

[Knight-2000]

I'd be interested. I'm always looking for a better AI to play against in Skirmish .
I've been playing with them a little recently to try and get the AI to use Dans buildlist (modified to remove the issues in it) in the Klingon campaign, without crashing the game. with little success

[Freyr]

Please remember that this is just a preview version at the moment and may roll over and die on some maps with insufficient resources. It was tested on one of the many 6wasup map's, but boadly speaking it should work best on maps with a decent amount of resources. If you only have the stock maps, play Warzone.

I also need to do a lot of work with the build lists as i'm more playing with the personality stuff at the moment. It's difficult to say how good this AI is, I can swat it like a fly before it gets going to badly, but I was ranked as a Supreme Commander when I was in an A2 clan back in '03 and it would probably be fair to say i'm better than most people.

If I let it get going by the admittedly crude method of pitching it against a stock AI, watching the fight and then taking it on afterwards then it does very interesting stuff and puts up an excellent fight, but that is far longer than I usually take to build up a fleet and go hunting. Of course, chances are you not going to be building as fast as me so this may well put up a fight.

Get your mutant Klingon AI's here.

Stating the obvious, everything should go into the /AI/AIPs folder and you should play against a Hard Klingon AI.

I'd like to hear comments from anybody/everybody that tries it, even if it's just a one line comment saying it's to easy or whatever.