Year of Fire economy models
 

So, I've been thinking about the economy for Year of Fire. I'm trying to make each race play very differently in all other aspects, so I think the economy should be different from race to race. I thought I'd share some ideas with you guys to see what you think of them.

Idea 1 is for the Gigantans. Their background goes that they are completely out of resources, and are forced to recycle and cannibalize ships to make new warships. My idea goes like this:

Your starting star base does not generate crew like normal. Instead, a "warp in facility" generates crew. From that station, you call in other ships, such as cruise liners, tug boats, freighters, etc. They cost no dilithium, only crew. Yet, they have a decommission value. So what you do, is you farm resource 2, and use it to bring in low priority vessels, which you cannibalize to make warships. I've been testing this idea, and it work really well so far.

The other races will be similar to standard Armada, with variations such as a race having a very light freighter which only holds say, 20 dill, but is waay faster. Or one who is the opposite, with a super slow freighter which carries a thousand dill.

As for other updates, I've been doing alot of station modeling and bug fixes. So I don’t have any pretty pictures today, but I'd love to know what you think of my ideas =).

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

The Gigantans idea is very interesting. I like it and would love to see it being used in this mod.

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

That is a great idea. I never would have thought about using your own ships as a resource like that.

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

The variations between races (like the freighter thing) is GENIUS! Sorry, did I get too exited?
Seriously, making all the races similar in the stock game works to keep things simple, but we can handle more complexity. That's why I think ideas like this are so great. Makes the game more interesting and adds more strategy and interactivity for the players, so Bravo!

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

The idea of cannibalizing ships, is a very good idea, but one that might get frustrating after a while. But I can see that it has it's merits.

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

An interesting idea. I'd heard of a warpgate that could bring in ships before from other games but never useing your own ships as a resource. I'm glad i have armada 1. Cant wait to try this out.

(Your trailer was pretty sweet.)

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

Nice idea, but as Majestic says it is going to get VERY annoying in several hour long battles. What about just renaming crew to "supplies" and only having a supply cost for warping in ships?

This is actually quite significant in terms of game balance. If I had this in a game then I would be able to mine dilithium from moons that are far away with the smaller miners and I would build mining stations inches away from the moons so the big ships hardly have to move.

In RTS games the standard pricing for a freighter is the amount of resources it can mind in a single run. (IE all "normal" races have a freighter cost of 150D in stock A2, with the exception of the bugs) When its exceeded by even small amounts it makes a huge difference to the game balance. This is even seen in A2, where the species 8472 miner costs 390B but only mines 150 in a single run.

When I am playing against a species player online my immediate response is to start blowing freighters up, as the cost to replace 2 destroyed miners is more than a battleship, and that dosen't take note of the lost income when they are being replaced. Ultimately, if you kill a large number of species miners you can put someone out of a game for more than 15 minutes, which is a huge timeframe in a game. Indeed, I do reguarlly commit entire fleets to blow up freighters even knowing that I will lose them all because my losses are insignificant in comparison. (they have to suspend defense spending on turrets/warships to replace freighters that you can keep blowing up)

Now thats with a minor difference, if I nuke your thousand dilithium freighters then its REALLY going to hurt a lot. If you make them cheaper than that then if I was playing as that side I would flood the map with them, as even getting a few to remote dilithium moons would bring in a HUGE amount of dil. adding weapons or advanced shields would have the same effect, as they would become more valuable than the cost.

Ah, be careful when you ask for opinions. :D

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

Hey, I'm just as happy to hear constructive criticism as any other comment. And you bring up some good issues.

I had considered something like the supply idea, similar to requisition in Dawn of War. But the way this works seems to fit so well with how they are supposed to operate, I really want to try to make it work.

As for the other things, what you say is completely true. Raiding mines is one of the most useful tactics in rts games. That happens to be why it evens out. If a player does spam light freighters, and send them all around the map, it would be endless free kills for your opponent. An example of this being StarCraft. Just because you have many light miners does not mean you have them running around the map mining far from their bases. That would not only be inefficient, but also suicidal.

A fast light freighter’s mining station would have to be just as close to a moon as a super freighter’s. Having a kind of convoy line going back and forth from a moon to a far off base would require more ships, and expose them to much greater danger of attack.

And because a light freighter would be respectively less armoured then a heavy freighter, It ends up being just as devastating if an elite force kills 10 light freighters, each capable of carrying 100d, as it is if they kill 1 super freighter capable of carrying 1000d.

The truth is that until I can test the way these ideas work alot, it's all about how it looks on paper. Obviously if I conclude that one races economy techniques are unfair, or unbalanced, I will change them or even scrap them if need be. I'm just trying to do all I can to make each race unique in their own way.

Thanks for the comments guys =)

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

this is such a cool idea when do i get to beta test?:D :D :D :D :D :D

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

:) Thanks.
The issue I see is having to manually control mining, which I would not want to be involved in when I am concentrating on large scale fleet battles as it would put me at a disadvantage as I wouldn't be bringing in resources. My opponent however, would be mining away without needing intervention.

Not really, unless you have a transwarp drive equivilant on all of your ships. You can see where ships are headed by scouting and its possible to intercept ships far in advance of them interdicting mining operations.

By the way you say "fast" I am assuming that you mean the miners would have a greater speed than most other ships which allows you to detail ships to do mining at considerable distance from your base with little danger, especially if you can out run most warships coming after you.

I don't beleive it would. If you have greater speed then you can travel a greater distance in the same amount of time which lets you build further away if your using faster ships.

If I was mining a far off base then I would look at it as a bonus. Your getting resources that you would not otherwise have. You would only normally devote a few freighters to something like that, along with a deterant force of warships. If its a couple of freighters not many people would risk any real losses for the kills.

True, but your not going to kill ten miners in a raid, trust me. They would all be in different places, and as soon as you started shooting at them they would all be going in different directions at high speed. I reakon that the best you would do is get three quarters of them, so lets say you get 8 of ten. Its insignificant, because I can afford to replace them from what the other two miners are bringing in, where as losing one huge miner is quite significant.

Indeed, its good to see someone willing to test everything out and change things when they don't work.

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

*Sigh* Just goes to show how much more noticeable Majest is to the moderators compare to I.

When truly it was I who said that:lookaround: (Nah, jk, I'm just splitting hairs.;) )

But more to the point, wouldn't it just be acceptable to just escort the freighters, You using a guard or follow command?

Re: Year of Fire economy models
 

Oops, sorry about that Ray. (I have a tendancy to mix up names.)

Personally speaking I never use the guard command. Strategicially its better to have your ships in one place with lighter units on possible approach vectors so you can intercept hostile fleets.

The guard command might work against an AI that randomly sends single warships wandering around but against any thinking opponent its futile because your ships follow at a close range and get in the way and they don't actually protect the ship because they are usually behind it when enemy ships show up.

Also, if they can see a fleet strolling around then they know what they need to take them down and they can plan an ambush in advance.

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The man (Freyr) has some valid points to be made. I have only played against the AI so I wouldn't know all the tricks.

Some exellent points made.

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Indeed, others have pointed out as well that adding micro to mining might not work. I don't think it will be too hard to manage though. Like research, it will just be something you have to keep tabs on. "Resources running low, better bring in some tug boats and liners to scrap."

Also, to the point of shipping lines being easy to police, 3 races to have ftl engines on alot of ships. Another gets a jump gate very early. The light freighters might be easily replaceable, but I think its also good to have a freighter that might have a chance of surviving or escaping, even if it is more of a blow if it does die.

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I think you should just use your idea and see what happens. If people don't like you can always release a patch and change it. Personally i think it's a great idea. I'm tired of the same ole mine that moon. mine this moon. annoying or not it should prove for some interesting stradegies.

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Thanks. I will experiment, and see what comes out of it.