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MrFancypants August 3rd, 2012 05:50 AM

Re: Syrian military and rebels battle for Aleppo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Commissar MercZ (Post 5652195)
Rule of thumb here is that Civil Wars aren't really pretty and neither side is in the right, even as the media favoring either tries to uphold them as victims and on the defensive. Assad isn't the only one who has played "dirty".

As a rule of thumb the dictator clinging to power at any cost, attempting to disperse peaceful protests with violence and terror, is at fault.
Sure, the conflict isn't pretty, but it quickly became apparent that the protesters would ally with anyone willing to help. Among the first to seize that chance were the people we fought as terrorists in Iraq. We could have helped, or even Russia or China - but we preferred to watch for various reasons.

AnOriginalName August 3rd, 2012 12:16 PM

Re: Syrian military and rebels battle for Aleppo
 
What's with the fuss over prisoner treatment? Because I can't think of many civil wars or revolutions where each side treated their prisoners/sympathizers of the overthrown regime very well.

Commissar MercZ August 3rd, 2012 05:40 PM

Re: Syrian military and rebels battle for Aleppo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFancypants (Post 5652251)
As a rule of thumb the dictator clinging to power at any cost, attempting to disperse peaceful protests with violence and terror, is at fault.
Sure, the conflict isn't pretty, but it quickly became apparent that the protesters would ally with anyone willing to help. Among the first to seize that chance were the people we fought as terrorists in Iraq. We could have helped, or even Russia or China - but we preferred to watch for various reasons.

I wasn't criticizing the action of the rebels any more than that of the government. I was dispelling the implication that somehow the rebels need to fight a "clean" battle- that won't happen in a situation like this. As for the "terrorists", they were always there. It wasn't a matter of them being "enabled" by foreign inaction, frankly if the US went guns blazing when the insurrection just started, they would have had to deal with the conservative religious groups that have fought with their own brigades. There were leaks recently that indicated the US has already cleared support to rebels earlier this year.

The issue here was the leadership of the opposition was fractured and there never was a concrete link between the political and military leadership. This has allowed for different groups to form up their military ranks and operate independently of any force, be it the SNC or local coordinating committees.

The only group that has organized effectively between its political leadership and armed wings were the Kurdish groups, divided they may be between pro-PKK and pro-KRG in Iraq, and of course this development has not been looked upon favorably either by the US, Turkey, or anyone else as it doesn't factor into what they envision for a post-Assad Syria.

Likewise I don't buy that somehow Syria's government is in this situation solely because of foreign meddling. Granted there's a risk that, especially due to the US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Qatar's own interests there, it could be "Afghanized" with different groups vying for power, the roots of these protests were things the government could have addressed. Most of these signs were there as early as 2007 (arguably, earlier, the system there had always benefited a small circle of elite), and the government neglected it. When it came, they did half-assed measures like cabinet reshuffles and pointless elections. These strains on their economy weren't placed in a fashion like that of Allende in Chile via US embargos, at least not until these protests were in full swing.

Asheekay August 3rd, 2012 08:17 PM

Re: Syrian military and rebels battle for Aleppo
 
If Asad loses the game, will it make militarily and politically easier for US/israel to assault Iran?

Commissar MercZ August 5th, 2012 11:04 AM

Re: Syrian military and rebels battle for Aleppo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheekay (Post 5652360)
If Asad loses the game, will it make militarily and politically easier for US/israel to assault Iran?

It would remove a big obstacle, again, seeing that Syria is probably Iran's only real "ally" in the region. Beyond that Iran is isolated- all the Arab nations beyond that have largely been shown to see Iran as a more significant "threat" more than anyone else, so there won't be much of a complaint from them. It's only been in Iraq where Iran has been able to form another political ally, but frankly they are not big enough to halt any action on their own. Turkey, while maintaining trade with Iran, will most certainly sever those as quickly as they did with Syria.

Iran has an interest in which way Syria goes, and as such elements of the Pasdar (From a longer term for what is essentially Iran's elite wing of the military) have been sent to Syria to help that nation coordinate its response to the ongoing insurrection. This has at least come common place enough with the recent abduction of some 40 or so Shi'a pilgrims who their militia captors say are infact Pasdar in disguise. Whether they are true here, I don't know.

Asheekay August 6th, 2012 12:22 AM

Re: Syrian military and rebels battle for Aleppo
 
What a lousy band them Pasdar are! Being captured by, not an army corps but rebels!


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