Artificial Intelligence

[Asheekay]

Indeed indeed!
If that kinda memory chip does become a reality, I'm afraid we shall very soon lose our memorizing potential and become dependant on these add ons.

[jackripped]

How do you figure that ?
There is no way of knowing what effect it will have but what you say is pure speculation.

[Asheekay]

No my friend its not pure speculation. We have remains of a tail in our skeleton and remains of appendix in our digestive system. Why do we not have full tail and full appendix? Because with the evolutionary change, these organs were used lesser and lesser until they diminished to their present form. Similarly when we develop a faster alternative for memory (and smarter, and more resistant to shock effects etc) our own memory system will start deteriorating. Its not absolute speculation. Its a deduction of what has been happening in the past and what is happening today too.

[Nemmerle]

Likely you'd build the chips to run on top of pre-existing memory; it would make things much simpler.

[jackripped]

Originally Posted by Asheekay

No my friend its not pure speculation. We have remains of a tail in our skeleton and remains of appendix in our digestive system. Why do we not have full tail and full appendix? Because with the evolutionary change, these organs were used lesser and lesser until they diminished to their present form. Similarly when we develop a faster alternative for memory (and smarter, and more resistant to shock effects etc) our own memory system will start deteriorating. Its not absolute speculation. Its a deduction of what has been happening in the past and what is happening today too.

Yea because in the past we evolved silicone chips in our heads for you to know didnt we.........

Your just guessing, totally guessing, there is no way to know what your talking about until it happens.
How do you know the chip wont be designed to help us learn more faster, rather you would like to ''assume'' the worst case scenario.meh pure speculation.
And by the way the tail bone ex sample is just laughable, it has utterly no bearing on this topic at all.
Tell me when in the past when this has ever been done to a human brain, with a silicone chip ? Oh its never been done, oh l see, so your bullshitting then, taking a random guess.
There is no matter of deduction.Or maybe there is.....below.

We dont have a tail anymore because we dont need them, oh but we would still need a brain thats self aware, just blew a hole in your hypothesis.No point putting any chip on a brain, if the brain is, well, brain dead, or if its going to become brain dead from the chip, deduction tells you that would be defeating the purpose !

The idea to do this is about becoming smarter, not dumber, that would be a back wards step in evolution.There really is no way to know for sure what will happen, either way, it IS pure speculation either way you go because its never been done before.

[vinzsanders]

half century ago, it began to drown the lowlands, driving out human calculators and record clerks, but leaving most of us dry. Now the flood has reached the foothills, and our outposts there are contemplating retreat. We feel safe on our peaks, but at the present rate, those too will be submerged within another half century.

[jackripped]

wtf, you a wanna be poet ?

Make sense you spinna.

[NuclearTurboPopeXVII]

Originally Posted by jackripped

We may have programmed the perimeters, but we ourselves cannot do those calculations,

Yes we can. Anything that can be done by a computer can be done by a human at a greatly reduced speed. I know where you're coming from, to you a computer is a mysterious black box that works on the principles of electricity and magic. But rest assured there are some people out there who understand the inner workings of a computer 100%.

Originally Posted by jackripped

it takes a computer 3 seconds to do it, we are being taught, educated, look at the weather simulations, how can you predict that without a computers help, dang, you cant, your the student there.

So why stop there? If I use an abacus to multiply am I the student there? How about a mechanical computer based on gears? How about I train a thousand dolphins to do simple arithmetic in a sealed room. I feed numbers in one side and the results come out the other side. Am I the student... there... somehow?

Originally Posted by jackripped

As for the total assumption you could beat a self aware computer, thats debatable.
You wouldn't know any of its moves if its self aware. You fail to realize that that leap is a step outside of the box that we humans are not used to dealing with in relation to computers.
Prove it to me now and beat the chess game that IBM created, you should be able to predict all of its moves since you fully understand what its going to do.
Screen shot it for me.....
See my point ?
You dont have a clue how ''smart'' that computer program is right now so how can you assume that you will have total control in the future.

If I programmed a chess simulation, I would know what move the PC would make by running the simulation I PROGRAMMED in my own head, or on a piece of paper. I can't beat the IBM computer at chess since I don't have the code. There are other factors, such as randomization and imperfect human timing, but if we're going to be fair in this hypothetical scenario I should be allowed access to those as well.

Now, as a counterexample I offer Starcraft II. I'd like to see you make a computer program that can beat me, a complete and utter noob at the game. Good luck, you'll need lots.

Originally Posted by jackripped

What happens if the internet or its protocol, becomes self aware ? Has anyone considered that ?

Now that would be a hard enemy to beat world wide. Or it could be revolutionary for the human race.

Yes, the internet itself morphing into a self-aware AI is a staple of modern science fiction. Sadly, it's not a very realistic one. The internet is high-latency and unreliable, so it stands to reason that AI will develop in the lab long before then.

Originally Posted by jackripped

Roughly 4 billion pc's on line now, a new internet protocol is being written to extend the internet addressability right now taking the addresses from 4.5 billionish to over a trillion, , so in effect computers will be-able to interconnect 10² to what they are now, and the computational power of that is what ? LULZ ! Closer and closer we get to the possibility of a self aware program.

The addressing change doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The number of PCs on the internet was going to expand anyway, they are just making more room for them. Also, a lot of those 4 billion addresses aren't actually hooked up to a PC, they're just reserved to some organization which isn't making use of them. Here's a neat map of the IPv4 address space: http://www.caida.org/research/id-con...s/20061108.png As you can see there's still huge areas going unused, reserved, special-purpose, or just going to waste because IBM/HP snatched them up by the thousands in the early days of the internet.

Originally Posted by jackripped

People argue, ''yea we would just write a virus to kill it'', failing to realize that a self aware program will probably see it coming , predict it, write its own anti virus, virus software, and then use that against us, a self aware program on the internet, is a program in its own turf, we are really going to be pushing to beat it on that playing field. Our programs are full of bugs and errors, when a self aware, program with the power of world wide computational power comes up against our crude programs, it will utterly crush them, in turn, teaching us how to do it right. Like most wars, it will take us time to beat it, and we would eventually l agree but what a scary scenario if you think about it in detail.

You're making the big assumption that all AI must necessarily be superintelligent. If an AI formed on the internet it would most likely be rudimentary at first, and slowly increase in intelligence from there. Internet researchers would notice it long before it became a real threat, and counteract it. Your second false assumption is that an AI based on thousands of PCs would have the flawless precision a PC. Your third assumption is that computer-generated code is better than human-generated code, which is sort of funny because it's sort of an inside-joke in programming circles that computer-generated code is some of the worst garbage imaginable. XD

Originally Posted by jackripped

There are bot programs right now that network millions of computers, like yours as well, and most people and the best anti virus software cant stop them, 80% of net PCs are infected infact, so to say all computers on the net are totally individual isn't really true, they are interconnected in the biggest network humans have ever created.

Actually, antivirus is 100% effective against viruses. It's the users who are at fault if they get a virus. Most people don't want to hear that, but it's true. When you hear for the ninth time in one week that Adobe Acrobat has a new security hole, you should stop using it. :P

[jackripped]

Anti virus programs, the very best ones only detect 20 %, thats correct 20 % of viruses.That is a fact. Anyone who believes that its the users fault because they got a virus when they have the best anti virus program installed, is un-informed about the matter.

You forget one thing with all that above post, if a computer becomes self aware, which is what the debate is really about, there is no way to predict what it will do.
Yes l was assuming that a program/computer will do it. Thats really what the topic and discussion evolved into.
But then in your post your assuming just as much when you say '' If an AI formed on the INTERNET it would most likely be rudimentary at first, and slowly increase in intelligence from there. Internet researchers would notice it long before it became a real threat, and counteract it.''
So what gives, shall we have an assumption war ?
You have utterly no way to know any of that.You assume as much as me did you say ? hahaha
And no game program has ever beaten you has it, never died once in any game have you, hahaha, what a bore games must be for you.....

And regardless of how clever you think you might be, there are some extremely smart scientists working on this, and they fully believe its a possibility, to create a self aware program/computer.

So clever one, since you cut n pasted me out of context on the first clip, lets see you do the calculations l was talking about, a weather super computer, go on, lets see them.
Whats the point of a human doing it if it takes 20 years. l would class that as in the not viable, not do-able bin, since we sorta want the answer tomorrow in relation to the weather. And whether a human would come to the same answer is highly debatable considering the human error factor, so it could be argued that in practice humans cannot do those calculations. But your right, if you want to wait 20 odd years theres a chance humans could do it.

[Asheekay]

@jackripped:
what will happen if you throw down an egg from a high flying fighter jet? Will it break or not when it falls?

So computers have become so smart and we have lagged behind. True. So can you program any computer with whatever resources you want, that will defeat me in sketching, or poetry, or debating? Or will you again run and take cover behind the statement that some "very intelligent scientists" are working on it? Funny, you never tell us who those scientists are, and whats the project development.

@TurboPope
cmon man, he doesnt know any application or script programming at all nor he has any idea about the computational logic or the binary gates. He has seen movies like i-robot though from where he gets his smart ideas. Guess the only way to prove his fallacy is to convince a hollywood director to make a realistic movie about robots and the skills of the computer.
Oh wait, what if he refuses to watch it? My bad!