Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

You're simply mistaken as to a matter of fact: Evolution is a process that has resulted in certain limitations to our thinking, it doesn't necessarily limit us to one planet.

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

People eat food for energy. Artificial life would need energy too. It's not like it would be able to operate for free infinitely.

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

I was talking not about blank abilities, it was about skills. When it comes to computing skills, we have surpassed human brain times go with the invention of electronic calculator. Physical skills were surpassed far back in the history with the invention of crowbar.

According to psychology experts, intelligence comprises:
1- Learning abilities
2- Decision abilities
3- Using learned abilities in solving problems

Calculation skills are indeed a PART OF the decision abilities, but they are not all. As for chess, we have a set of rules, while in natural environment, we do not have a set of hard and fast rules. This is where the human brain starts showing its caliber in decision, learning, and problem solving.

I agree that computer programs might exceed the human brain in problem solving and decision making, but when it comes to learning ... I don't think it can ever compete us. Because in learning we have to deduce, make assumptions, conduct experiments, have doubts, criticism. And this is where the computer programs will not match us.

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

Omg by the definition you give computers are already alive, because they can do all 3 things now.
There are programs that can learn, then make decisions, then from learned ,information can solve problems.
Shit that was done over 10 years ogo on analogy machines.
A computer has more skill than you or me at maths calculations.
Given a commuter cannot 'think' like us for major problem solving, but you need to open your mind to whats possible 100 years from now, rather than just go on what works in todays tech.That is a flawed way to debate it, if you consider how fast and far computers have come in the last 30 years.

l reckon the first one to become self aware is going to be very worried about its energy source ,like mr scientist professor says, who knows what will happen if it happens, but you just cannot right the possibility off, because of how far computers/programs have come in 20 years.
We may be able to throw a kill switch and terminate it, but why would we ? What an achievement to actually create some form of artificial conciseness that functions with self awareness.l doughty the first one will have any real deadly power, but it opens a Pandora's box on morals. We will control it, like we did with slaves for how many hundreds of years, simply by threatening it with death. Works on humans, will work on almost any sentient being/thing.Absolute control.

l dont know why people find it so hard to believe computers/programs could be come self aware, seems like our next natural evolutionary step to me, to either create them or become them or both even.

First one is probably going to become pretty bored pretty fast if its stuck inside a computer system and not an actual robotic body !

There is no such thing as the 5th generation computer yet in the sence it can think for itself and is self aware.
Doesn't mean it wont happen.
Worst case scenario would have to be terminator, but i rather i-robot as a more closer to to reality that terminator.
Laugh go on.
Star trek.
How many thing from star trek are now real ?
Shit loads.
And other sci fi like iron drives, now real.
Lazer weapons, real.
Sound weapons, ultra sonic, real.
Plasma drives, real.
Going faster them Mach 4 , real.
Space travel, real.
Robots in space, real.
Computers becoming self aware, just a matter of time.

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

The definition was not about being self aware or alive, it was about being INTELLIGENT. So yes, if you do believe that computers can actually "learn" things than merely following prefed instructions, then yes, they are intelligent. But as far as I know, computers are still working on prefed instructions. Their "learning" abilities are nothing more than following instructions that have been fed into them. I mean to say, if you program a computer to learn about a man's choice in visiting websites, it would only follow the intructions for this purpose and even if the person would be willing to simply write all his favorite websites in a notepad and save it for the program, the program would still never read that file and learn it right away instead of following complex algorithms and control structures. Why? Because it wasn't instructed to read that text file. With this scenario under view, would you still call the computers intelligent?

Then is the case of decision making. A human being can choose a different path under the same conditions that he faces everyday. Many things depend on mood, DNA, religious and ethic codes etc etc. A computer would not make a different choice under the same circumstances. This makes it predictable. This means, that although Deep Blue II did defeat Gary Kasparov, but knowing its set of instructions each move of Deep Blue II could be predicted while those of Gary could not be (sparing the first few opening moves). Do you still insist that computer programs can make decisions?

As of your examples of sci fi ideas forming into reality. I must say I totally agree to you here. What future holds for us, cannot be determined at this time. So yes, the possibility for computers/robots to be self aware, COULD become a fact in some day of the future. I didn't say its impossible. My point of view can be summarised as, "As of the knowledge we have TODAY, such things do not seem to be happening any time soon."

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

Maybe not right now, but in 100 years ?
Never say never.

Pre programmed or not, if it has a choice it is forced to make a decision.

And the weather super computer that does all these models for hurricanes etc, doesn't always give the same results, it makes decisions, yes its programmed, but it still makes those decisions over a human.
The beauty of that ex sample, is that it can sometimes predict some massive freaky storms, and we have seen it be so close to correct alot of times.
This is something humans would never have predicted.
A computer simulation gave rise to the theory of how Earth got its moon.
We have effectively become the student there !

Anyways if you show such a low level of respect for computers, wait till there self aware and beat your arse hahahaha.

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

People tend to think of AI as an advanced computer, when I think nothing could be further from the truth. Look at the human brain,.. the individual neurons are nothing like either logic gates or a CPU. That should be enough to convince people that if you're going to look for a way to make intelligent AI, it'll probably be something radically different from a traditional digital computer. It won't be something you can just "code a safeguard into".

Anyway, the human brain has tens of billions of neurons each of which is rather complicated. But, since each neuron has to carry out normal cell functions as well, they can probably be simplified in a theoretical AI design. Simulating tens of billions of neurons at once might not be something we can do now, but I have no doubt that future advances in nanotech manufacturing will make creating something as complex as a human brain cheap and easy.

So sometimes in the future, we will reproduce a brain, either an actual brain or a silicon representation of one (or a computer program simulating an entire brain at once, in real time). The question then is, is intelligence likely to arise naturally through the random interaction of neurons? I postulate that this is very likely, since all humans are is a scrap of DNA programing which is given a large number of programmable neurons to play around with and a world to interact with. In fact, when I think of AI in the future, I think of a massive computer with hundreds of millions of CPUs, emulating billions of neurons in real time, using human DNA as the only program code. At this point, when human DNA has been reduced to a file on a computer Somewhere, what does it mean to be human? What separates a human with a body from a human trapped in a silicon chip?

Of course, by then I think we'll have a better understand of the human brain, and will be hacking it as well. I don't think anyone should worry about a superintelligent AI taking over the world, since humans will be augmenting their own intelligence as well.

As for the philosophical and ethical ramifications, well, I don't even want to think about what will happen to human rights and individuality.

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

Yea l agree that when billions of CPU's online get all hooked up together as a single bot network that something could change, it will have the power to become something its not, possibly.
l like the idea of human DNA, if it can be understood by a computer or program then it surely will clone that information, for its own advancement.

The only thing l see trapping a human conciesness from a computers/silicones chips conciessness is the body itself.

Again a sci fi pops into head, Caprica.

Could it possible that a human conciessness is transferred into a machines body, [computer/robot etc ] what a pandoras box that would open.

l drinkan, but sometimes l wish l was born 500 years from now !@

Never mind the first car, what about the first ,moon jumper shuttle, awesome !

Puts a whole new meaning on those frekin P platers !!! hahaha

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

Never say never. Agree to you totally about that. Once again, I did NOT say that its impossible. I was talking with our present knowledge. What lays in the unknown is just mist, fog. What comes out of it, we don't know. Yes, the possibilities are alive though. Agreed.

As for the simulators, we haven't become the students here, my friend. We just utilized the computing power of some digital machines and got the results. Its not that those machines worked on their own and gave us the results. No, the laws, the rules of their "thought and thinking" if you must say it, were given by our own hands. Their results are simply an outcome of the data provided to them, and implementing the rules fed to them. Its nothing more (to this day in time that is).

As about the decision thing I was talking about, was based on will and wish. While a computer makes no decision. It has no choice. It does follow one path out of many, true. But the underlying rules for choosing that path are already fed into it. So there's no free choice on its part. Thats what I was trying to point out.

As for the disrespect part. Lolssss. Well, lets see. You know what man. If computers DID get smarter and finer and had a robot body to control, still they won't be able to beat me (except that I was taken by surprise) because I'd know all its moves and what it would do in the future (depending on what software its working on) while it won't know my decisions and my moves, coz I have a FREE will to work on. So in the end I'd win (unless it shoots my sorry self with a super accurate sniper rifle from a distace of 5 miles or so lol).

Re: Artificial Intelligence
 

We may have programmed the perimeters, but we ourselves cannot do those calculations, it takes a computer 3 seconds to do it, we are being taught, educated, look at the weather simulations, how can you predict that without a computers help, dang, you cant, your the student there.

As for the total assumption you could beat a self aware computer, thats debatable.
You wouldn't know any of its moves if its self aware. You fail to realize that that leap is a step outside of the box that we humans are not used to dealing with in relation to computers.
Prove it to me now and beat the chess game that IBM created, you should be able to predict all of its moves since you fully understand what its going to do.
Screen shot it for me.....
See my point ?
You dont have a clue how ''smart'' that computer program is right now so how can you assume that you will have total control in the future.

What happens if the internet or its protocol, becomes self aware ? Has anyone considered that ?

Now that would be a hard enemy to beat world wide. Or it could be revolutionary for the human race.

Roughly 4 billion pc's on line now, a new internet protocol is being written to extend the internet addressability right now taking the addresses from 4.5 billionish to over a trillion, , so in effect computers will be-able to interconnect 10² to what they are now, and the computational power of that is what ? LULZ ! Closer and closer we get to the possibility of a self aware program.

To go off topic slightly, l really expect that humans will one day be able to insert silicone chips into there head to assist with memory, learning training and skills, l think the bit rate has to be faster, it has to be analogue interface, and it has to run of the energy from a human body and no outside power source, but l believe one day maybe 200 years or 100 years from now , humans may have these things.

Education, downloaded in seconds, university, downloaded in minutes, learn to fly a plane, 7 minutes download, for experience, download someones direct memories.Now you have done it as well have being trained in it. You could be an ace pilot without even leaving the ground. !
Right now the interface between human and pc is pretty crude, MOUSE, but its there, the first step to wards becoming , erm, whats the word, cyborg !
With a better understanding of the human brain and computers, there is no reason why this will not become reality.

If one does become self aware, what gives us the right to kill it ?
It could argue we are a threat and have the same moral justification to kill us off.
And if it won and humans became extinct, that would become a natural part of our evolution, extinction, as sad as we might see it, if we were still alive !
After sentient life, all bets are off, we compromise or we fail.
To kill a self aware program we created, would truly be tragic.
Like killing your own child.
Some say if one becomes self aware it would be an infant, l agree, but only for a few hours, then it would mature oh so very fast, a second is an eon to a computer, if it has access to our history and current way of life, politics etc, it would quickly want to open a dialog in my opinion.Why wouldn't it ?
We see it as a threat anyway you look at it.
It will see us to some degree in the same way, bit like Muslims see the west now, and we see them, but we dont ethnically cleans them all to death, there is a middle ground.
Lets face it Israel could have ethnically cleansed the entire middle east but haven't, lm not a fan of Israel, infact l dislike Israel very much, but at least they haven't gone a full scale kill every Arab ethnic cleansing war, l cant see a self aware computer/program doing it either even if it had the capability.

What happens if a self aware program gets loose on the internet, theres almost no way to kill it. How do you kill the power to over 5 billion computers at once, and delete bios Trojans etc etc etc all at once, see how a self aware program could be much more of a handful than most think.
People argue, ''yea we would just write a virus to kill it'', failing to realize that a self aware program will probably see it coming , predict it, write its own anti virus, virus software, and then use that against us, a self aware program on the internet, is a program in its own turf, we are really going to be pushing to beat it on that playing field. Our programs are full of bugs and errors, when a self aware, program with the power of world wide computational power comes up against our crude programs, it will utterly crush them, in turn, teaching us how to do it right. Like most wars, it will take us time to beat it, and we would eventually l agree but what a scary scenario if you think about it in detail.

l only hope l live to see a self aware program, what an amazing thing to witness that would be.