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View Poll Results: With which side you're standing?
I support Israel. 6 17.65%
I support the Palestinians. 3 8.82%
I hate both. 10 29.41%
Whatever happens - happens. 15 44.12%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 17th, 2010   #1
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Exclamation With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frontpagemag.com

Promoting a Genocidal “Peace”



Indoctrination to genocidal anti-Semitism is epidemic among Palestinians and in Arab and other Muslim states. “Peace” plans that do not recognize this as the major obstacle to genuine peace, but rather push steps which ignore it, inexorably lead to more violence and are doomed to fail. Even worse, by their silence on this issue they pander to and help promote such deadly hate-mongering.

Demonization not only of Israel’s Jews but of all Jews, and calls for their mass murder, are a staple of Palestinian institutions, those controlled by Mahmoud Abbas’s Palestinian Authority as well as those of Hamas.

Hamas’s charter quotes a Hadith in which Allah declares that the Day of Judgement will not come until the Jews are all killed and even the stones and trees will help in murdering them. The charter adds that Hamas “aspires to the realization of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take.”

Hamas systematically employs its media, mosques and schools to convey the same message. Its schools and children’s television programming teach their young audience the virtues of killing Jews.

The Palestinian Authority hardly lags behind its Islamist rivals in peddling genocidal Jew-hatred. PA media depict Jews as a cancer that must be excised and, like Hamas, insist it is a religious duty to do so. PA indoctrination includes delineations of the nature of Jews that entail virtually every hoary anti-Semitic caricature. While PA leaders such as Mahmoud Abbas talk of “peace” to Western leaders and media, they use their vehicles of incitement to instill in Palestinians not only commitment to annihilating Israel but also dedication to extirpating the Jews.

For example, a recent official Palestinian Authority Friday sermon, broadcast on PA TV and translated by The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), had the preacher declaring: “The Jews are the enemies of Allah and His messenger… the enemies of humanity in general… Our mutual enmity with the Jews is a matter of faith more than an issue pertaining to occupation and land… The prophet Muhammad said: ‘You will fight the Jews, and you will kill them…’”

In the wider Arab world, even in countries allied to the United States, the same message is incessantly promoted. A recurrent feature of Saudi government television is of clerics or other authority figures demonizing Jews, often with the speaker having children present to whom they are imparting their Jew-hating wisdom.

Even in countries with which Israel is officially at peace, such as Egypt, variations on the same theme are prominent in government-controlled media. Egyptian television and government newspapers have, for example, featured clerical and academic authorities confirming the Jews do indeed use the blood of non-Jews in their recipes for Passover matzoh.

Robert Wistrich, a leading authority on the history of anti-Semitism and author of the recently published book on the subject, A Lethal Obsession, has written:
“In the Middle East, [anti-Semitism] has taken on a particularly dangerous, toxic and potentially genocidal aura of hatred, closely linked to the ‘mission’ of holy war or jihad against the West and the Jews…

“The scale and extremism of the [anti-Semitic] literature and commentary available in Arab or Muslim newspapers, journals, magazines, caricatures, on Islamist websites, on the Middle Eastern radio and TV news, in documentaries, films, and educational materials, is comparable only to that of Nazi Germany at its worst.”

Also noteworthy is that, aside from the exacerbations introduced by the rise of Islamist groups in recent decades, similar anti-Jewish depredations permeated much of the Arab world before the 1967 war and Israel’s presence in the West Bank and Gaza, and even before Israel’s founding.

What has been the Western response to this promotion of genocidal Jew-hatred? Largely silence. In the Palestinian arena, the indoctrination has actually been paid for in part by the European Union and individual European states, the United Nations and even American government funds.

But no less morally obscene is the virtual absence of any acknowledgment of this hate indoctrination from all discussions of “peace.” There are, here and there, some bland references to ending “incitement,” but no evident outrage over the level and nature of the incitement or discussion of what must be done – or the time it will take – to reverse the impact of decades of hate-inculcation.

Nor is there any recognition of Israel’s need to be able to defend itself from the onslaught that it has faced in the past and will inevitably face in the future as a result of this indoctrination. The need for Israel to have defensible borders – recognized in 1967 by the authors of UN Security Council Resolution 242 in the wake of the Six Day War, and by various U.S. presidents in the ensuing decades – gets scant recognition from today’s self-styled promoters of peace, even as the intensity and impact of Palestinian and broader Arab genocidal Jew-hatred has only grown.

Territory beyond the pre-1967 cease-fire line that Israel has every right under 242 and under international law to claim for the purpose of national defense, territories that should, given their legal status, be depicted as “disputed,” are declared “Palestinian” by Western politicians and media.

Israel’s claims are dismissed as illegitimate land-grabs and the threats against her are ignored.

Those interested in a genuine peace would recognize that true peace is a long way off and will never be achieved as long as Israel’s enemies continue to indoctrinate their people in genocidal anti-Semitism. They would draw public attention to this obscenity and to its obstruction of possible movement toward a real peace. And they would seek in the interim lesser, and less murder-enabling, goals entailing a separation of Palestinians from Israel to the degree commensurate with Israel’s retaining strategic territories necessary for its defense; goals that, for example, would not put Israel’s major population centers within range of the type of assaults that have followed upon Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza.

Genuine peace-seekers would aspire to arrangements that enable Palestinians to pursue their own, separate political course without rendering Israel more vulnerable to those whose agenda is the annihilation of its people.

Promoters of anything less, of any plan that is silent about the hate-indoctrination and the existential threat it represents to Israel, or gives it no more than a passing nod of acknowledgment as a problem, are not pursuing peace. Promoters of any formula that talks of “peace” as reachable in short order and dismisses Israel’s need for defensible borders are not agents of serious attempts to attain peace. Whether such formulas emanate from gentile or Jew, from the EU, or individual European states, or the UN, or the Quartet, or the State Department or the White House, or are advanced by Israel’s Meretz party, or the devotees of Peace Now, or the beneficiaries of the New Israel Fund, or the groupies of J Street – their promoters are in reality silent appeasers and accommodators, and not infrequently abettors, of those who are both propagandizing for and actively aspiring to another genocide of the Jews.

Kenneth Levin is a psychiatrist and historian and author of The Oslo Syndrome: Delusions of a People Under Siege.

Promoting a Genocidal “Peace” | FrontPage Magazine



So after reading this, do you really think that there's a chance to have peace (a real peace) with the Palestinians? Because if you still believe in peace, you must be very naive.

You can't claim that Arabs cannot be anti-Semites because they are Semitic themselves: the only reason why the British published a book called "the white book", that banned the entry of Jews to Israel, was to please the Arabs, before HITLER. Yes, that's right, Hitler ignored the fact that Arabs are Semitic, and asked for their support. They were ready to support him. The British didn't want it, so they tried to limit Jews who want to come into Israel (even though Israel was meant to become a Jewish state), and that way gained the support of the Arabs. And may be oil has also something to do with it.

You can't deny that Hamas attacks us:

Hamas policy is enshrined in the Hamas Charter. It refused to revoke it
• Hamas has presided over a huge weapons build-up in Gaza since 2005, culminating in the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit in June 2006. This is not rhetoric
• Hamas statements rejecting Israel are reflected in its policies and deeds on the ground. Those deeds reinforce the Hamas Charter, rather than contradicting it
• Hamas has carried out a 12 year suicide bombing campaign against civilians throughout Israel .... This campaign is not rhetoric
• Hamas promotes “martyrdom”, and an ideology which rejects Israel , from mosque sermons to lessons and summer camps for Palestinian schoolchildren. This is not rhetoric.
• The “political wing” of Hamas gives freedom of operation to Islamic Jihad, the Al Aqsas Martyrs Brigade and other Palestinian groups which aim to destroy Israel . This policy is not rhetoric
• Hamas leader Khaled Mashal proudly aligns himself with the current Iranian leadership which also calls for the destruction of Israel



• Israel is an object of hatred, state-sponsored incitement and demonisation in virtually the entire Arab and Muslim world
• It is viewed as a foreign colonial implant, with conspiratorial designs to dominate the region, and without any humane, redeeming features.
• Israel is portrayed in demonic terms on Al Jazeera, and on cable and satellite TV throughout the Islamic world. It is never portrayed as democratic or having any redeeming features
• Hatred of Israel distracts attention from problems within Arab societies, and helps Arab leaders to avoid calls for greater democracy, human rights, equality for women, due process of law, an end to corruption, economic reform, freedom of speech and other much needed developments

Hatred of Israel is a product of Arab political culture, not a product of Israel 's actions.

While Hamas policies made it impossible for Israel to negotiate with them, Israel embarked upon intensive negotiations with the Palestinian Authority, following the Annapolis conference of November 2007, which were aimed at achieving the framework for a two-state solution.
This Briefing describes the Israeli offer which was made in the course of the 2008 negotiations to withdraw from 93% of the West Bank, and also provide 7% further land to the Palestinians, including a corridor linking the West Bank and Gaza , and an expansion in the size of the Gaza Strip.
The Palestinians immediately rejected the proposal.

An example of a case of Western claims against Israel, that were proved wrong:

No evidence of Israeli use of uranium-tipped munitions

In October 2006 the Independent newspaper in the UK published a front page report, headlined ‘Mystery of Israel's Secret Uranium Bomb' and written by Robert Fisk, claiming that Israel had used uranium-tipped munitions during its war against Hezbollah of Summer 2006. The story was reported worldwide. Experts from the UN Environment Programme have since concluded that there was no evidence to support this claim (ABC Online, 8 November 2006 ). A panel of experts from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has now also stated that there was no evidence to support the original claim ( 27 February 2007 , as reported in Lebanon 's Daily Star newspaper). The UN and IAEA findings have hardly been reported anywhere.

You can also see many Israeli scientific inventions and dicoveries:

Culture from Israel, Ynetnews - Health&Science
Two innovative views on restoring sight - MarketWatch
Hebrew University researchers developing ‘breakfast of champions’]
American Friends of Tel Aviv University: Pinch Away the Pain
Al Gore Joins Richard Branson in Backing GreenRoad
Robo-Bird Israel’s new Organic Pesticide | isRealli - The New Blog of the State of Israel
And more...


And what have the Palestinians invented?... They invented many, many lies.


And then you must ask yourself, why the Americans and the rest of the world, keep attacking Israel with the international media.

Clinton Pushes Israel, not PA, to Take Risks for Peace - Politics & Gov't - Israel News - Israel National News
News from Israel, Ynetnews
News from Israel, Ynetnews
The heart and soul of Israel - Nathan Diament - POLITICO.com



I think we should do a list of Islamic lies:

"A Palestinian country was occupied by Zionists."
"9/11 Is a lie."
"The holocaust never happened".
"Israel kills Palestinian kids."
"Arabs are second class citizens in Israel".
"Abraham, Moses and Jesus were all Muslims".
"[insert random Islamic statement here]".

By creating this topic, I'm continuing the other topic I created called "A religion of peace?". So let's try (again) to have an argument that doesn't turn into "Alex is...".

I finish this post with a little note on Al-Qaeda:
Somalia: Al-Qaeda video aims at child recruits - Adnkronos Security .

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Old April 17th, 2010   #2
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Default Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

It takes two to tango. The propaganda of militants is just one aspects of the conflict, Israel's provocative actions are the other. I doubt these militants would be able to gain so much power if it wasn't for Israeli politicians who use the conflict to their advantage (e.g. by building new settlements in occupied areas).
If neither side is interested in peace then obviously peace is not very likely.


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Old April 17th, 2010   #3
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Default Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

Like Fancypants says, it's the fault of both sides that this conflict continues. No doubt there is more hatred of Israel (not Jews, just Israelis) from Arabs surrounding the country, but Israel doesn't particularly do much to try to better it's public image. Israel has yet to realize that it is fighting a propaganda war and insurgency rather than a conventional war. Israel thinks it can win with might of arms, but no one can win an insurgency in such a way. The only way to win is to convince your enemy that you are not enemies. Israel's current actions are never going to do this.
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Old April 17th, 2010   #4
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Default Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

i didn't vote as none of the poll options express my view.
i support israel's right to be a country but also support palestine's right to want to be a country. i guess i would ideally want a 2-state solution. still, i never expected to see such an option in a poll from somebody who sees everything in black and white...

also, that picture really doesn't say much. you're clearly trying to make a link between islam and nazism, although there is no comparison. had the jews been exterminated, i wouldn't be surprised if the muslims were next. they too are a semitic religion, technically. besides, upon researching, it seems the arm position of the Sieg Heil (Nazi Salute) is higher up.


can you find a source of this "promotion of jewish genocide" from a non-israeli/ neo-conservative source? (i ask as all your sources are israeli, and it seems some bias may exist, as does in any country, and it would help to see something from a source with a little less bias- islamophobia seem widespread in israel, and is practically doctrine for neoconservatives- the source is extremely biased in favour of israel, in other words. i wouldn't be surprised if they supported a theoretical genocide on muslim peoples.)
in fact, find sources for everything you're saying, and i don't mean ultra-conservative "israel shits gold" media. i mean a more non-biased source. your sources would never criticise israel. you complain about western liberal media but no media has more of a bias than that of far-right conservative source who routinely scapegoat liberals.

i don't think anyone is denying hamas attack israel. the reason for criticism is the unhumanitarian blockade which forces them to get their basic needs illegaly from other nations such as egypt, which you attempt to stop by force. i don't think anybody here is saying what hamas does is right, but nor is denying the people of the region basic supplies or even a right to develop their economies (destruction of ports under construction, despite them having little or no military importance- they face west. most nations that would be interested in arming hamas lie to the east).

if a 2-state solution was to be pursued and fulfilled, recruitment to hamas would fall, becoming far smaller, and eventually ineffective. on the other hand, i wouldn't be surprised if lehi was reformed, nor would i be surprised if you joined.

a better question to pose to you is: "with you unable to accept any compromise, how can you expect peace"? your idea of peace is islam is destroyed in israel and the world. everyone sucks up to israel, as "jews are genetically superior to all other people".

also, as for you showing israel's achievements, none of this would have happened without the support of the western world. if the western world hadn't supported the creation of a zionist state, i expect israel would still be an islamic area and jews would just have settled in jewish enclaves around europe and the USA. now, you see that you are beginning to lose the support of people in the west, and you blame everything on muslims and western nations who refuse to help you? you owe us everything.

Last edited by Keyser_Soze; April 17th, 2010 at 07:04 AM.
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Old April 17th, 2010   #5
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Angry Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFancypants View Post
It takes two to tango. The propaganda of militants is just one aspects of the conflict, Israel's provocative actions are the other. I doubt these militants would be able to gain so much power if it wasn't for Israeli politicians who use the conflict to their advantage (e.g. by building new settlements in occupied areas).
If neither side is interested in peace then obviously peace is not very likely.
How exactly Israeli politicans use the conflict for their needs? When the prime-minister defends his country, does he do it for his needs, or for his nation's needs?
And no, these areas are not occupied. Remember who lost them? It was Jordan, not the Palestinians. It doesn't belong to Jordan anymore, we have every right to build there, no matter what our enemies are asking us to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterburner View Post
Like Fancypants says, it's the fault of both sides that this conflict continues. No doubt there is more hatred of Israel (not Jews, just Israelis)
But they call for a genocide of all Jews. I suggest watching "Intifada Comes To Kampus", you'll find that Jews are being attacked by Arab-Muslims just for being Jewish.

I reject every claim of "only Israel, no the Jews", because Israel is the Jewish country, that cares about Jewish needs, and also takes care of minorities like the Palestinians. From my point of view, Islam is the only reason why they hate Jews. This books asks them to kill Jews, after all. Pretty much like Mein Kamf, which is the second most sold book in Islamic countries after the Koran.


Quote:
from Arabs surrounding the country, but Israel doesn't particularly do much to try to better it's public image.
So you're blaming us for not creating propaganda, like the Palestinians?

Quote:
Israel has yet to realize that it is fighting a propaganda war and insurgency rather than a conventional war. Israel thinks it can win with might of arms, but no one can win an insurgency in such a way.
Again, what you suggest is doing a propaganda war like the Palestinians. Sorry, we don't play that way.

Quote:
The only way to win is to convince your enemy that you are not enemies. Israel's current actions are never going to do this.

The US doesn't try to convince Al-Qaeda that they're not enemies, so why should we do it with the Palestinians? Double standarts again?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser_Soze View Post
i didn't vote as none of the poll options express my view.
i support israel's right to be a country but also support palestine's right to want to be a country.
What right do they have to be a country? They never were a country, and they are not a nation, they're an ideology; their nationality is Arab. The Palestinians are Arabs, not a seperate nation. There are enough Arab countries. It's their fault that they chose to occupy Israel during the times of the Ottoman empire. And it's their fault that they're attackd by us, since, when the first Zionists came here, the Palestinians (Arabs, as there were no Palestinians) have always attacked Jews.

Quote:
i guess i would ideally want a 2-state solution. still, i never expected to see such an option in a poll from somebody who sees everything in black and white...
Give Al-Qaeda a state, and then judge me for seeing "black and white". Yes, I compare the Palestinians, the terrorists who wish nothing but destroying Israel (and the rest of world in the name of Islam) to Al-Qaea. Look at their actions, the Palestinians do NOTHING to have peace, just terror, so why should we give any lands?

Quote:
also, that picture really doesn't say much. you're clearly trying to make a link between islam and nazism, although there is no comparison.
Why? Both call for killing Jews (and the Koran also calls for killing Christians, remember the word "Jihad"?), and they all say that one day, only Islam will exist, and that Muslims must try to bring this day closer. So there is a BIG links between both.

Quote:
had the jews been exterminated, i wouldn't be surprised if the muslims were next. they too are a semitic religion, technically.
No, Christianity is also a Semitic religion. Hitler's war was against race, not religion.

Quote:
besides, upon researching, it seems the arm position of the Sieg Heil (Nazi Salute) is higher up.
So you're an expert in Siege Heil... Anyway, it's kind of an irony, watching the Arabs, which are also considered Semitic, supporting Hitler so much.

Quote:
can you find a source of this "promotion of jewish genocide" from a non-israeli/ neo-conservative source? (i ask as all your sources are israeli, and it seems some bias may exist, as does in any country, and it would help to see something from a source with a little less bias- islamophobia seem widespread in israel, and is practically doctrine for neoconservatives- the source is extremely biased in favour of israel, in other words. i wouldn't be surprised if they supported a theoretical genocide on muslim peoples.)
I don't need any source. I saw in my own eyes, Palestinians screaming "slaugher the Jews", so it's the reality. What you see on the internet, is nothing compared to what I see in here, in reality.

Quote:
in fact, find sources for everything you're saying, and i don't mean ultra-conservative "israel shits gold" media. i mean a more non-biased source. your sources would never criticise israel.
So you only believe sources which critisize Israeli? Does critisizing us makes a media source "non-biased". That's non-sense.

Quote:
you complain about western liberal media but no media has more of a bias than that of far-right conservative source who routinely scapegoat liberals.
May be the right-wing just tells you the truth in the face, and the truth hurts?

Quote:
i don't think anyone is denying hamas attack israel. the reason for criticism is the unhumanitarian blockade
I don't remember that terrorists should recive any humanitarian help. The blockade is not a blockade of resources anyway, it just doesn't let them to get into Israel and blow themselves up.

And what happened to the biased, oil-lovers, human rights' people? Gaza seems to be more interesting to them, than people in real troubles.

Quote:
which forces them to get their basic needs illegaly from other nations such as egypt, which you attempt to stop by force.
They get everything they need from us. And they get money from Iran and the others.

Quote:
i don't think anybody here is saying what hamas does is right, but nor is denying the people of the region basic supplies or even a right to develop their economies (destruction of ports under construction, despite them having little or no military importance- they face west. most nations that would be interested in arming hamas lie to the east).
During the Oslo era Israel supported investment in the Palestinian areas, and encouraged international financial support from other countries for the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza .
Palestinian terrorism is the root cause of the Palestinians' economic woes. It has brought about the slowdown in inward investment, and caused a massive increase in unemployment in the territories. Thousands of Palestinians who previously worked in Israel have been unable to retain their work.
Former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat presided over massive corruption

We don't have peace with them. Until you'll start giving North Korea and such money, we won't even think about giving any money to the Palestinians. Actually, we will NEVER think about giving any money to the Palestinians, the Palestinians don't deserve anything good. Stop the double standarts, okay?

Quote:
if a 2-state solution was to be pursued and fulfilled, recruitment to hamas would fall, becoming far smaller, and eventually ineffective.
Or, it will become stronger, will take over the Palestinian state, and will turn it into another Muslim Arab terrorist country, like happened many times during the Muslim history.

Quote:
on the other hand, i wouldn't be surprised if lehi was reformed, nor would i be surprised if you joined.
The heroic Lehi joined the Haganah, and created, together with others, the IDF. If someone will fight against the terrorists, it's only IDF.

Quote:
a better question to pose to you is: "with you unable to accept any compromise, how can you expect peace"?
And what will the Palestinians give us? You still, after many topics, didn't tell me what you expect the Palestinians to give up. Why don't you ask the Palestinians to compormise? As FancyPnts said, you need two for a tango. The Palestinians should compormise.

Quote:
your idea of peace is islam is destroyed in israel and the world. everyone sucks up to israel, as "jews are genetically superior to all other people".
My idea of peace is no more terrorists, no more Palestinians who want to destroy my country, no more people telling me to give up my lands anf give them to the terrorists, no more Palestinians who use whatever power they can to attack us. And no more anti-Semitic propaganda.

Quote:
also, as for you showing israel's achievements, none of this would have happened without the support of the western world.
Tell me about one invention or discovery that the West supported. No one suppors us, We develop ourselves by ourselves. No one helps us. I am proud of all the things we've archiveds, especialy because no one helped us. Sto taking my goly please.

Quote:
if the western world hadn't supported the creation of a zionist state,
It didn't. The world was against us. Only when we declared independence, the world was ready to recognize us. The only country that was ready to support us was... Micronesia. Google it if you don't believe me. No one supported us. We established everything by ourselves.

And it's called Jewish state.

Quote:
i expect israel would still be an islamic area and jews would just have settled in jewish enclaves around europe and the USA.
Since 1880 we have established our communities. The Otomans have fallen when the British destroyed them. No one helped us. There was nothing on the land of Zion, just old cities and a small Jewish community (that existed here since the times the Romans forced us to leave. Not all Jews left, there wasn't even one day in this land, without a Jewish community. Jews were always the majority in Jerusalem), but we the Jews gathered our powers and came back to the land of our ancestors. I have said this before, and I'll say it again - NO ONE HELPES US, WE CREATED THIS COUNTRY BY OURSELVES!

Quote:
now, you see that you are beginning to lose the support of people in the west,
We lose the support on one hand, but the West depends on us more and more, as the Arabs start losing their oil. We are economicaly very strong. We want the West to support our actions, not necessrely our economy (though there's nothing bad about giving us, the best ally, some economic support too).

Quote:
and you blame everything on muslims and western nations who refuse to help you?
I blame the Muslims for their lies, and I don't blame nation which don't help us. No one have ever helped us. We don't need your help. Just stop judging us and stop supporting the Palestinians. We don't ask the US to attack Iran, we ask to to allow us to attack. Just let us fight.

Quote:
you owe us everything.
I owe you nothing, because you didn't give me nothing. What have you given me? Tell, I want to hear it - what have you given us? Nothing. We created this country only by ourselves, as I claimed above. The West didn't help Jews during WWII. The West didn't help us creating Israel. The West doesn't support us now. You don't give a shit about us. I don't owe you anything. You, on the other hand, owe me the lives of 6 million Jews. All of the world knew about it and didn't help. No country (but Micronesia, as I mentioned above, and even their "help" was only on the papers, they didn't actually give us anything) helped us with rebuilding Israel. We have done all by ourselves. We owe you nothing. You didn't support us in the past, and you don't support us now. We don't have to even listen to you. Yet we do help our allies, because unlike you, we care about our friends.

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Last edited by Alex37; April 17th, 2010 at 08:31 AM.
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Old April 17th, 2010   #6
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Default Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex37 View Post
How exactly Israeli politicans use the conflict for their needs? When the prime-minister defends his country, does he do it for his needs, or for his nation's needs?
And no, these areas are not occupied. Remember who lost them? It was Jordan, not the Palestinians. It doesn't belong to Jordan anymore, we have every right to build there, no matter what our enemies are asking us to do.
Whenever you have a conflict there are politicians who try to exploit it. Patriotism and nationalism are widespread in most populations and easy to encourage in those where they aren't. Appearing decisive and strong with regard to an enemy is a good way to gain votes from such people. That's why Israeli politicians do not like at all to destroy illegal settlements, it is a major blow to their popularity.
You talk about defending your country - as if there the hordes of muslims about to invade. A few selfmade missiles and the occasional suicide bomber probably kill less people than cancer or traffic accidents. If you look at it objectively the threat posed by those terrorists is very very small. It is more spectacular though and therefore easier for politicians to exploit.

As for occupied areas, the legal status of settlements and so forth I'll stick with the international definitions. Not because I believe that either side has an inherent right to this land but because avoiding further confrontations due to these problems is the only way forward.


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Old April 17th, 2010   #7
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Default Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

Yes, the militants are a huge cause of the problem. But the israelis share equal blame. They turn even legitimate ideas (like the wall) into petty land grabs. I'm somewhat amazed how much effort the IDF is willing to put into protecting a few acres of extra land on the west bank.

I gurantee if instead of keeping Palestinians locked out of the country in crowded refugee camps, they allowed them to participate in the job market and gave them a piece of the pie so to speak, the militancy would either not exist or be much smaller.
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Old April 17th, 2010   #8
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Default Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFancypants View Post
It takes two to tango. The propaganda of militants is just one aspects of the conflict, Israel's provocative actions are the other. I doubt these militants would be able to gain so much power if it wasn't for Israeli politicians who use the conflict to their advantage (e.g. by building new settlements in occupied areas).
If neither side is interested in peace then obviously peace is not very likely.
This. I'd say they both equal are to be praised and spit on.

As their is no "Both sides have blood on their hands but also show signs of wantign to end this mess" option I guess I have to go with "I hate them both" or "whatever happens, happens".

It would be great if people on both sides stopped pointing fingers at eachother and ultimately an utopion solution would be when they said "alright, whatever happend happend, we shouldn't give a damn about a persons gender, religion, race, culture or whatever else. Live and let live, respect, tolerate, give a bit, take a bit". But there are plenty of scumbags all accross this planet (and a fair share of wonderful people, mind you).

The eastiest solution? Kill every human being that walks this earth. Though that wouldn't be too pleasant for me and all those other people that try to be relative good. It would end all the injustice, vengage, grudges and so on that we see...
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Old April 17th, 2010   #9
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Default Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

I went to the site and just on that story there were like 5 anti-Obama adverts acting like he's a Communist. At the bottom it even encourages revolt. It's heavily biased which discredits what its saying.

Hey look at this article by the same guy
Auto-Genocide, Jewish Style – by Kenneth Levin | FrontPage Magazine
the guy is obviously severely biased and I'm wondering if your him.

EDIT:
Alex what do you have to say about this?
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...icle924678.ece

Permanently banned due using his secindairy account "JustinBieber" to post nudity once again.

[IMG]http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj217/Warforger/IranHomo-1.jpg[/IMG]

Last edited by Warforger; April 17th, 2010 at 09:46 AM.
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Old April 17th, 2010   #10
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Default Re: With Islamic anti-Semitism and media lies, can you expect any peace?

I'm sorry, but for someone who had Jewish ancestors, zionists have done more to feed the anti-semitic fire than any other group in history. Stop massacring the Palestinians and maybe you would realize why so many people hate Israel.

YouTube - Israeli Army makes shirts promoting the killing of Pregnant Palestinian Women in Gaza
YouTube - Undercut crime: Israel admits illegal organ harvesting
YouTube - Israeli war crimes
YouTube - Israeli Soldiers Admit War Crimes
YouTube - Israeli Soldiers Criticise Tactics In Gaza War

All israel has to do is shout "Anti-semitism!!!" and any opposition to is discredited. Various human rights groups have spoken out against Israeli war crimes, and there is substantial photographic evidence and testimonies of said war crimes. You can't keep on denying that you are wiping out the Palestinians, its a genocide, and thats that.

If we live and work together as equals, no one will have nothing and everyone will have everything.
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