Woman given a ticket for no hablo englis?

[Smitty025]

Originally Posted by MrFancypants

That's a sign a very poor integration which can cause all sorts of trouble.

What if I don't want to integrate? In Germany that might not be a choice, but in America I am (and should be) free to choose how I want to live. If I don't want to speak English, I won't. If I want to invent my own language, I can. Sure it may cause problems for me, but it was my conscious choice to cause those problems, and they are my problems to deal with.

[MrFancypants]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic

However, it is not against the law. And that is what is important here. There are probably millions of people in the United States who do not speak English. Are you going to stare disapprovingly at each and every one of them until they decide to learn English?

In any case, seeing as America as a whole does not have an official language, what's to say that they should learn English? Why not Spanish? Chinese? French? Japanese? Italian? Or even (heaven forbid) they language they know already? *Gasp!*

So a problem isn't a problem unless it is against the law?

As for the US, English is obviously the predominant language, even if you don't call it the official language. Out of those you mentioned it is also the easiest language to learn, so it seems like a good choice too.

Originally Posted by Smitty025

What if I don't want to integrate? In Germany that might not be a choice, but in America I am (and should be) free to choose how I want to live. If I don't want to speak English, I won't. If I want to invent my own language, I can. Sure it may cause problems for me, but it was my conscious choice to cause those problems, and they are my problems to deal with.

If it only created problems for yourself that would be ok, but bad integration of large number of immigrants is bad for other people living in the same country for several reasons.

[Inyri Forge]

Originally Posted by MrFancypants

So a problem isn't a problem unless it is against the law?

We don't give tickets to people for having problems, we give tickets to them for breaking laws. Do you see the difference?

[Mr. Pedantic]

So a problem isn't a problem unless it is against the law?

I never said it wasn't a problem. I said it wasn't against the law, and that was why police officers should not be punishing people for it, no matter how problematic it is/may turn out to be.

[MrFancypants]

Originally Posted by Inyri Forge

We don't give tickets to people for having problems, we give tickets to them for breaking laws. Do you see the difference?

This was my original post:

Originally Posted by MrFancypants

Two problems here, the problem of cops making up laws on the spot in order to punish people for what they personally think is acceptable or not is clearly an abuse of power.

As for the language-problem: I agree that it is not good at all if an immigrant doesn't speak the official language of the country they migrated to after 20 years. That's a sign a very poor integration which can cause all sorts of trouble. In Germany language-tests for potential immigrants were introduced recently for that reason.

Mr.Pedantic quoted the second part of my post, which didn't deal with the cop-problem but only with the language-problem, so when I quoted him again I was speaking again only about the language issue, not about the cops giving tickets to immigrants.

You may be able to find typos in other people's posts, but your reading comprehension needs a bit of work

Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic

I never said it wasn't a problem. I said it wasn't against the law, and that was why police officers should not be punishing people for it, no matter how problematic it is/may turn out to be.

Gah, I give up. Clearly a language test is a bad idea if so many Americans have trouble concentrating long enough to read a few lines

Here, again, the relevant parts of my original post:

cops ... abuse of power.

[Nemmerle]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic

In any case, seeing as America as a whole does not have an official language, what's to say that they should learn English?

All the government business is already done in it, it's essentially the trade language, all important regular international work is done in it, it's one of the easiest languages to learn - especially when compared with languages that have far more complicated grammatical structures - It's one of the easiest languages to make yourself understood in even if you don't grasp the grammar properly, and it has access to a lot of international words from the somewhat mongrel nature of its origins; (or to put it another way other languages from a similar root tend to blend into it nicely so that you can get by with very few words.)

I don't support the actions of the officers, nor do I think that it should be illegal to speak another language to the exclusion of English, but I think driving tests, exams and so on should be given only in English. Having a non-integrated language means you, necessarily, have a fractured culture; fractured cultures tend to weaken a country and create insular little holdouts of ethnicity. Quite asides from which it costs an incredibly amount of money to cater for people who don't speak English with emergency services. If you want to go off and live in the woods somewhere that's one thing, but there are reasons for picking English as the nationally supported language, and by refusing to speak it you're putting others out. The question is less why you should be allowed to and more why anyone should cater for you to do so.

Want to speak your language? Fine. And when you're arrested for failing to comply with police at a traffic stop because you've wilfully kept yourself unable to do so I'll weep sad sad tears for you. Really.

That's the way it should go down. We don't let people off of traffic offences because they never learned to drive and we should let people off of failing to cooperate with things in English because they chose not to learn it.

[Mr. Pedantic]

All the government business is already done in it, it's essentially the trade language, all important regular international work is done in it, it's one of the easiest languages to learn - especially when compared with languages that have far more complicated grammatical structures - It's one of the easiest languages to make yourself understood in even if you don't grasp the grammar properly, and it has access to a lot of international words from the somewhat mongrel nature of its origins; (or to put it another way other languages from a similar root tend to blend into it nicely so that you can get by with very few words.)

I don't support the actions of the officers, nor do I think that it should be illegal to speak another language to the exclusion of English, but I think driving tests, exams and so on should be given only in English. Having a non-integrated language means you, necessarily, have a fractured culture; fractured cultures tend to weaken a country and create insular little holdouts of ethnicity. Quite asides from which it costs an incredibly amount of money to cater for people who don't speak English with emergency services. If you want to go off and live in the woods somewhere that's one thing, but there are reasons for picking English as the nationally supported language, and by refusing to speak it you're putting others out. The question is less why you should be allowed to and more why anyone should cater for you to do so.

I'm judging by the fact that she's gotten by for 20 years without English, that I think she'll be fine for another 20 without it.

Want to speak your language? Fine. And when you're arrested for failing to comply with police at a traffic stop because you've wilfully kept yourself unable to do so I'll weep sad sad tears for you. Really.

That's the way it should go down. We don't let people off of traffic offences because they never learned to drive and we should let people off of failing to cooperate with things in English because they chose not to learn it.

She was given a citation for the u-turn. Fine by me. However, booking someone on the side because they can't speak English is completely unfair, stupid, and really quite strange. 0.8% of the US population (according to the last census) can't speak English. Want to book all of them?

As for the traffic stop, that shouldnt be hard. There'd be police everywhere with big cones and probably a long line of other cars in front of you. What else are you going to do but stop?

[NiteStryker]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic

If someone can find me a piece of legislation that says it's illegal to have no comprehension of English in Texas, then I will agree this is a good idea. Otherwise, those police officers are assholes and have no right to wear that uniform. And if I may say so, I don't hold out much hope for being proven wrong, seeing as the US doesn't even have an official language anyway, let alone English.

If you bothered to read the entire article...

Originally Posted by The Article

Kunkle said his department's computer system for citations has a pull-down menu that includes a law requiring drivers of commercial vehicles to speak English. The chief said he believes the federal law was misapplied to local drivers of private vehicles.

So it was a nub cop making a mistake. But I think it should be a law. You live in this country for at least 5 years you should have basic knowledge of our language.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic

That is irrelevant. If it is law, then fine. If it isn't, then the police have no right giving out tickets like that and they should be suspended for abuse of their position.

It was a misinterpretation.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic

There are probably millions of people in the United States who do not speak English. Are you going to stare disapprovingly at each and every one of them until they decide to learn English?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic

In any case, seeing as America as a whole does not have an official language, what's to say that they should learn English? Why not Spanish? Chinese? French? Japanese? Italian?

Because, even if its not the official "the government says it is" language, language is the predominant language. Obvious fact. So, speak it if you are going to live in this country.

Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic

Or even (heaven forbid) they language they know already? *Gasp!*

Nobody is saying you cant have your own communities and traditions and languages and customs within that community. Bit if I see you face to face in the street, and I say "hows it going", god help you if you say "muy buien".

English mothaf*cka...do you speak it.

[Afterburner]

The problem as I see it is that Dallas gives the driver's exam in Spanish. Make it an English only exam. Problem solved.

[Mr. Pedantic]

So it was a nub cop making a mistake. But I think it should be a law. You live in this country for at least 5 years you should have basic knowledge of our language.

38 is a heck of a lot of mistakes.

Yes

Go on then. And post a youtube video. I want to watch it.

Because, even if its not the official "the government says it is" language, language is the predominant language. Obvious fact. So, speak it if you are going to live in this country.

As I said before, she's obviously coped fine for 20 years, up till now. So I see no reason why she can't cope perfectly fine for another 20.

Nobody is saying you cant have your own communities and traditions and languages and customs within that community. Bit if I see you face to face in the street, and I say "hows it going", god help you if you say "muy buien".

English mothaf*cka...do you speak it.

If I walked past you in the street, I'd probably ignore you, no matter what you said.

The problem as I see it is that Dallas gives the driver's exam in Spanish. Make it an English only exam. Problem solved.

A lot of states (maybe even the whole US, I don't know) require official documents to be made in both English and Spanish versions. If you change the drivers license test, then you'd have to, by continuation, change everything else as well.