More police tomfoolery in the land of the free.

[Jeffro]

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

Because its illegal. Plain and simple. The cop is not there to give his opinion on the law, he is there to enforce it.

You're right. He's a mindless monument to the ignorance and lunacy that this nation holds dear to its heart.

I dont understand why half america cries like babies when we waterboard a known terrorist.

I don't understand what that has to do with the conversation.

Because, again, illegal.

If an entire society is criminalized, what remains legal is irrelevant.

Yes, you are.

You only know me as Jeffro on a gaming forum. Which means you don't really know a goddamn thing about me. I could be the prime minister of Ireland for all you know...

When I had to chew a 23 year old man out this morning (mind you, I am 21) because he has gone 5 days without shaving, its fucking stupid. When I have to humiliate some stupid FNG because he came to work this morning without shaving, its fucking stupid. When I got a different FNG driving a car around with a cracked radiator and he just keeps adding water, thinking its a perfect solution, its fucking stupid.

So if you criminalize every conceivable activity, they will magically become intelligent and keep them in line?

Its their job. Do you even know what a police officer is? They ENFORCE the laws. They are not the senate. They are not a judge.

They don't have to and if they had any sense, they'd not enforce such petty violations.

There is not such a thing. Give me any example you wish.

Drinking openly on the street, smoking a joint on the porch/park/outside, picking up a prostitute, etc.

Give me one good as fuck reason why heroin should be legal. Prostitution? I can see making that legal, selling a service. But drugs are a different story.

All drugs are like herion and crack, right?

[NiteStryker]

Originally Posted by Nemmerle

Do you know that, or are you just going on what you suspect? Because in England the police are largely empowered to arrest without being obligated to.

Well thats england. We talking america.

Originally Posted by Nemmerle

Technically the police should arrest you every time you swear in public, do they do so? Like fuck they do.

Where is it illegal to do that?

Originally Posted by Nemmerle

A system where you were obligated to arrest for every crime? I can't imagine that being practical.

Thats where tickets and citations come in.

Originally Posted by Nemmerle

Carrying a lobster over a certain length is illegal in some states. Where's the victim in that?

Well some dumb laws like "no whale hunting in nevada" are no shit impossible laws and I would love to know why they are laws. But why are you carrying such a big lobster? Maybe it needs to be in water constantly over a certain size, so the victim is the lobster.

Originally Posted by Jeffro

You're right. He's a mindless monument to the ignorance and lunacy that this nation holds dear to its heart.

Enforcing laws is lunacy? Im pretty sure thats the centerpiece of our society.

Originally Posted by Jeffro

I don't understand what that has to do with the conversation.

You are not seeing a common viewpoint and I dont see a common viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Jeffro

You only know me as Jeffro on a gaming forum. Which means you don't really know a goddamn thing about me. I could be the prime minister of Ireland for all you know...

But you are not.

Originally Posted by Jeffro

So if you criminalize every conceivable activity, they will magically become intelligent and keep them in line?

EDIT: Ment to say a grown ass 23 year old man went 5 days without SHOWERING.

Its conditioning. You tell them this is wrong and why and there are consequences for the stupidity. And it usually rectifies the situation. If it doesnt, you enact harsher punishments.

Originally Posted by Jeffro

They don't have to and if they had any sense, they'd not enforce such petty violations.

Only petty to you.

Originally Posted by Jeffro

Drinking openly on the street,

Minor getting ahold of alcohol by people over age providing it to them, drunk getting in a vehicle, getting belligerent and starting fights with people.

Seen all of this so I know what im talking about and agree with the laws.

Originally Posted by Jeffro

smoking a joint on the porch/park/outside,

Smoking a joint anywhere is illegal. The smoking isnt as bad, but the drug dealing causes more violence. Hell, i'd say legalize pot and tax the piss out of it.

Originally Posted by Jeffro

picking up a prostitute, etc.

Well the prostitute would be the "victim" then....

Originally Posted by Jeffro

All drugs are like herion and crack, right?

Enough of them are to make them illegal right alongside heroin and crack. So that tells you something.

[Mitch Connor]

Originally Posted by Nemmerle

Carrying a lobster over a certain length is illegal in some states. Where's the victim in that?

The lobster, he wants nothing to do with being carried.

[Smitty025]

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

Enforcing laws is lunacy? Im pretty sure thats the centerpiece of our society.

You know, up until recently I thought as you did, that rule of law was the most important thing is this country. Now that the government is so lacking in integrity that it is unwilling to prosecute the criminals who approved of and ordered the use of torture, I'm not so sure anymore.

Enough of them are to make them illegal right alongside heroin and crack. So that tells you something.

If you're interested in controlling drug related crimes you should read up on the topic. The surprising facts are that strict penalities and enforcement of drug laws do not help. Decriminalization (different from legalization!) does.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/gr...whitepaper.pdf

[Afterburner]

Originally Posted by Smitty025

You know, up until recently I thought as you did, that rule of law was the most important thing is this country. Now that the government is so lacking in integrity that it is unwilling to prosecute the criminals who approved of and ordered the use of torture, I'm not so sure anymore.

Say what you will about the justice system, but if you don't enforce laws uniformly you open the door for a great deal of corruption, which is not to say there isn't already corruption. The job of the police is to enforce the law, not to make it, not to deliberate upon it, but to enforce it. We have a legislature and judiciary for a reason.

Work through the legislature to get laws changed, but for God's sake let the police do their job. Don't corrupt that institution further.

[Smitty025]

Originally Posted by Afterburner

Say what you will about the justice system, but if you don't enforce laws uniformly you open the door for a great deal of corruption, which is not to say there isn't already corruption. The job of the police is to enforce the law, not to make it, not to deliberate upon it, but to enforce it. We have a legislature and judiciary for a reason.

Work through the legislature to get laws changed, but for God's sake let the police do their job. Don't corrupt that institution further.

I think you misunderstood me. I believe that rule of law should be the most important concern for a society, but the US government of today seems to feel that it is insignificant.

[Mephistopheles]

Originally Posted by Admiral Donutz

Indeed, I can imagen that it cna be frustrating but the whole "eye for an eye" approach would only cause more problems (the situation escalates into a full fight with possible serious injuries or even death).

"Eye for an eye" means revenge. I wanted to point out that the loss of self-control in certain situations is the result of an emotional response. It doesn't justify a brutal reaction, it only explains it. And some persons are more prone to it than others, of course.

Originally Posted by Admiral Donutz

The more that those that work for the state are supposed to act responsibly, maturily, orderly etc. because they are meant to give a public example on behaviour/morals, showing they can eb trusted with the powers granted to them (no abuse of power) and are there to serve the people.

I completely agree.

Originally Posted by Admiral Donutz

De-escalation training is given for a very good reason.

Sure. In Germany we have a saying: "The first weapon of a police officer is his word."

Nevertheless, some people (like the drunken bugger I mentioned before who had perpetually terrorised his ex-wife and her family and destroyed the furnishing of a pub) refuse a peaceful negotiation and actually seek trouble. Fortunately, this guy received a one-year sentence without parole.

Originally Posted by Admiral Donutz

As for drunk people: I know that the state they are in ain't an excuse but it does make people who normally wouldn't act agressively or disrespectful , to do so. They may use physical or mental (cursing) violence against others who "get in their way" (which thus affects law enforcement and resque forces especially) while they will regret it when they sober up and realize what a mess they made.

I might be wrong here, but from my experience people just tend to show their real face when drunk. That doesn't mean that anyone who becomes aggressive after a few beers is a criminal, just that this person takes better control of his/her aggressiveness in a sober state.

Originally Posted by BadHairDẵy

Hey, self defense right? I'd be pissed too if someone could have potentially infected me with some disease.

I had him handcuffed already when he spat in my face. Of course, it was disgusting. However, I had no legal reason to punch him in his face. Nevertheless, although I wanted to, I didn't punch him. But I wasn't far away from doing it.

On the other hand, I am not working in the street anymore and therefore I am glad that I don't have to deal with this kind of white trash on the "front line of crime" any longer.

[Anlushac11]

I think the first clip was excessive force. The suspect did run but made no effort to defend himself from the cop when the cop approached him.

I agree on the second one. Why in the hell would Police pull over a speeding ambulance. Its kind of obvious they were carrying people. Found this on the net.

State Police Pull Over Ambulance Going to Hospital - Expanton

An Emergency Medical Technician who was involved in a scuffle with an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper is speaking out about the incident.

Maurice White, Jr. is a critical care paramedic with the Creek Nation EMS. He was nearly arrested after the confrontation, which was captured by the cell phone of Kenyada Davis.

Paul Franks was the driver of the ambulance, which was transporting a patient to a hospital in Prague.

White says he saw the trooper approaching from behind at a high rate of speed with lights activated, but he did not hear a siren. He says Franks had a car in front of him that his attention was focused on and hadn't seen the trooper before he was within a few feet of the ambulance.

"I called out to my partner and told him to pull to the side because there was a State Trooper behind us," White says.

White says as the trooper passed them, he made radio contact, telling Franks "you should consider checking your rearview mirrors".

White says a few blocks after this incident, another trooper entered the road at a high rate of speed, cutting in front of a car driven by a family member of the patient. White says he then saw another trooper approaching from the rear.

"As my partner was pulling onto the shoulder, the cruiser came alongside our unit and gestured for my driver to pull over," White says. "When the officer came to a complete stop behind the ambulance, I noticed a woman in the front seat. Based on the officer's erratic driving behavior, I thought that the woman in the front seat of the cruiser was in need of immediate medical attention; hence I exited the rear of the ambulance in order to assess the situation."

White says the officer was in a rage when he approached them and yelled "get your a-- back here! I am giving you a ticket for failure to yield." White says he told the trooper they had a patient in the ambulance and that they were on their way to the hospital.

"He ignored my statement, became even more belligerent, and demanded my partner come to his patrol car so he could write him a ticket," White says. "I calmly told the officer that we were transporting a patient and we could continue this at the hospital."

White says the trooper then approached him and shouted "you are under arrest for obstructing a police officer" and grabbed his arm to handcuff him. A brief struggle followed, at which point the trooper grabbed White by the throat. The cell phone captured this incident on video.

White says the trooper later told him they could continue on to the hospital, but that he would be under arrest once they got there. White was never arrested, but says troopers told him he should be prepared to turn himself in if a warrant was issued.

The cops probably did not arrest the EMT due to a OK law that would have led to some confusion on who exactly would be going to jail.

Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 20 - Assault and Battery
Section 650.3 - Interference with Emergency Medical Technicians or Care Providers - Punishment
Cite as: O.S. §, __ __


Every person who willfully delays, obstructs or in any way interferes with an emergency medical technician or other emergency medical care provider in the performance of or attempt to perform emergency medical care and treatment or in going to or ret0urning from the scene of a medical emergency, upon conviction, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six (6) months, or by a fine not to exceed Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Cant taser the guy in the last video due to lawsuits and liberal outcry that tasers are cruel and inhumane. If you get close enough to Pepper sray him then you run risk of being stabbed or slashed and possibly killed. This is a case where the net gun would have been handy.

YouTube - net gun(http://www.taiwan-di.com)

[Nemmerle]

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

Well thats england. We talking america.

All very well, but that doesn't answer my question.

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

Where is it illegal to do that?

England certainly, I don’t know about the ‘States. Although I seem to remember a senator in Sou Carolina was trying to get it made illegal there so *shrug* whatever.

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

Thats where tickets and citations come in.

While better than an arrest it doesn't make it a good idea. If you write a ticket for everyone who speeds you'll end up screwing over a lot of people who were doing the only safe speed on that section of road and using up a lot of police time. You won't have made society any safer for it.

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

Well some dumb laws like "no whale hunting in nevada" are no shit impossible laws and I would love to know why they are laws. But why are you carrying such a big lobster? Maybe it needs to be in water constantly over a certain size, so the victim is the lobster.

Doesn't matter if the lobster is alive or dead, doesn't matter whether it's in water or not. You're just not allowed to have it.

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

Enforcing laws is lunacy? Im pretty sure thats the centerpiece of our society.

The centrepiece of society is selectively enforcing the law. The people at the top issue these bullshit decrees and then you take them and run them through a fine filter of common sense interpretation before you go out and do anything with them. If you didn't nothing would ever get done.

Systems have to have that wiggle room; otherwise some moron who's never done anything relating to the job gets elected into office and makes some uninformed decision to fuck it up for everyone else.

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

EDIT: Ment to say a grown ass 23 year old man went 5 days without SHOWERING.

Oh no, what a nightmare.

Originally Posted by NiteStryker

Smoking a joint anywhere is illegal. The smoking isnt as bad, but the drug dealing causes more violence.

But, ironically, only because it's illegal.

[Admiral Donutz]

Originally Posted by Anlushac11

I think the first clip was excessive force. The suspect did run but made no effort to defend himself from the cop when the cop approached him.

I agree on the second one. Why in the hell would Police pull over a speeding ambulance. Its kind of obvious they were carrying people. Found this on the net.

State Police Pull Over Ambulance Going to Hospital - Expanton



The cops probably did not arrest the EMT due to a OK law that would have led to some confusion on who exactly would be going to jail.

That reveals some more info, but it still doesn't sound like the ambulance tried to block (or refuse to yield) the trooper's car. Unless it took several minutes for the car to take over the ambulance and/or other clear signs that the ambulance refused to yield.

When do emergency vehicles get right of way? Do lights alone grant them that right?

If not, then the amulance can't have refused to yield to begin with. Perhaps it could be givena ticket if (again basing this on Dutch traffic laws) the ambulance was "unneccesarily" driving on the left (if 2 or more lanes go in the same direction like on a highway, you are supposed to keep right so that other traffic can overtake. if you keep left without good reason you can be fined).

I wonder if the ambulance personell could have played dickedhead back: ea after saying they can sort this out at the hospital, say they need to go to the hospital right now (implying that though it's not a straight emergency speed is still of the essence), get back in the car and drive off. I suppose they couldn't get away with turning their own lights&sirene (unauthoritised use of equipement?).

Cant taser the guy in the last video due to lawsuits and liberal outcry that tasers are cruel and inhumane. If you get close enough to Pepper sray him then you run risk of being stabbed or slashed and possibly killed. This is a case where the net gun would have been handy.

YouTube - net gun(http://www.taiwan-di.com)

That or an police dog... if the guy kept going in circles they could have waited for a K9 (or the net gun) to arrive. And only fall back on the car knockdown if the situation seems to spin out of control (ea the guy is making a run for it in the general direction of people).