HealthCare
 

How would you change healthcare, and should there be universal healthcare?

Re: HealthCare
 

I say only minimal health care, like to treat maybe a hurt, like a cut or sommat. But no genetic healthcare or keeping the weak alive. However nice it may seem, it is causing the pedigree collapse of the human race.

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So keeping someone's cancer-infested grandpa alive is going to bring down the pedigree? He isn't breeding anytime soon.

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Wait, did you just say it's much more important to care for a paper cut, than for someone bleeding to death because he just lost both arms?

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For those who cannot afford it, basic medical care. For those who can afford medical insurance, private medical insurance. Those who choose to buy their own medical insurance will be exempt for any medical insurance tax. They are not using the system and thus should not have to pay for it.

The government has a habit of making things much more expensive and complicated than they have to be. Universal health care would be worse for everyone's health and pocket book.

I don't think you would feel the same way if someone in your immediate family was dying of cancer and treatment would give her a few more months to be with their family. It is always easy to argue letting the weak die when you are not personally affected by it.

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I would change healthcare by removing the profiteering factions that over rule it.

Diseases and such can be solved simply by better sanitation and organic nutritional practices/promotion.

From there on, natural/herbal remedies for ailments and illnesses exist with a far better success rate than synthetic "remedies".

Once you remove synthetics consumption/pollution, you'll remove almost all disease faced by modern communities. And let me restate it again, nutrition and sanitation prevent illnesses.

You want a cure for cancer? Easy, black cumin seed oil.

You want to have a happy marriage, easy, remove that junk and refined/processed/pasteurized products from your diet.

You want a productive society? Get rid of the out of home school system. And get back to the natural form of home schooling and avoid that pop boob tube for lemmings.

Etc etc etc.

It's unfortunate, that the people are being drugged up and turned into cattle. But with going back to basics, you may end up with some powerful OCP type company doing a metal gear solid 4 on your country, but at least you tried.

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Why should I pay for your broken arm anymore than you should have to pay money to all these other charities that you don't?

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Because if you don't have a good health insurance, and you're almost killed in a car crash, then you can wave good bye to your home and all the things you own. And likely also a limb or two.

Re: HealthCare
 

I like the idea of universal health care in the United States, the problem is though our general health is not that great due to our poor diets consisting of fast foods and such. This can lead to cancers and diseases in which surgeries and treatments are needed which can cost a large sum of money. America needs to cut down on the fast food and exercise so the health care costs in the future can be reduced; even with a reduced military budget universal health care wouldn't be very affordable.

My second point on the reason it wouldn't be a good idea is the amount of illegal immigrants in the country. Would universal health care cover them? If that was the case, we'd see a much larger deficit in the economy, as they already receive a mass amount of government benefits, and can't pay as much back to offset it.

So if we improved on those 2 previous points, we still have another flaw in the idea, and that's the lack of organ donors. We have a lack of organ donors on our current system right now, and with more people having healthcare, how will people get those transplants they need when 1,000 other people need it or 10,000? Then again with the advances in medical technology, this might be a smaller concern as we find news way to treat people, but still a concern never the less.

I'm all for better health care than the crappy system we have now, but when we look at reality and how money works, would the system be able to sustain it?

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Well that's very unfourtunate for you but people dying in the third world are to be honest much more numerous and needy.

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Oh, I see! So spina bifida can be cured simply by washing your hands and eating free-range eggs! I've seen the light!

I'm pretty sure the flu was around long before the Industrial Revolution. And there are diseases that are air-borne. It's hardly practical to give everyone a hazchem suit and expect them to wear it every second of their lives, is it?

...pardon?

And then you have around half your workforce, by necessity, staying at home every single day to teach their children.

Are you saying that milk is bad for relationships?

Re: HealthCare
 

First I have to lol at Master Chief's response. I suggest ignoring him.

That said, I am against Universal healthcare because I don't generally enjoy theft, no matter how established and regulated it is, and that is what the taxation for healthcare is.

Re: HealthCare
 

There are many hospitals that are non-profit. The hospital system around me is dominated by UPMC (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center). They are non-profit, and they are consistently ranked as one of the best hospitals in the world.

That was the case back in the mid 1800's. You can't stop cancer simply by washing your hands and eating a good diet.

Herbal remedies have not been scientifically proven to work in treating diseases. Many of these "cures" have been refuted by scientific studies.

Many of these synthetic compounds have allowed civilization to get to the point that it is at today.

I want a link to university level study.

I will agree with you that junk food and over processed products are not the best thing for you. However pasteurization has saved countless lives from harmful bacteria.

Public schools have a very important role in the social development of children. When you raise kids sheltered from society and other kids they have a hard time becoming social when they need to be social.


I see your concern over some the food additives and over-medication. At this time the alternative to what we have right now is much worse.

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Because that's fucking easy.

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Works fine for the majority of the European countries, so why wouldn't it work for the US?

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Because of the same lobbying and other backroom trade crap that destroyed the privatised healthcare system in that country perhaps.

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Trust me, you guys want it, Canada has had it since the 60's i think it is, and we have a 2 tiered system, One with non elective surgeries, which is basically, you dont have to pay, gov't pays, all you do is go in for the surgery and then recovery, and Elective Surgeries, where you can choose to have it, and you pay for it, and recovery.

Worked quite well, in most provinces.

Re: HealthCare
 

People tend to forget that the US is not Europe. The US did not fight 2 wars( war of 1812, US Revolutionary War) with European countries to be just like Europe.

Just because something works in Europe does not mean that it will work in the US. On the political spectrum the US is the only right leaning first world country. There are also noticeable differences in culture and lifestyle. When you take these factors into account a good idea in Europe is not a good idea for the US.

In the US with the older generations there is a perceived need for them to provide for themselves and their family regardless of cost or hardship. Many of these people were born into poverty and managed to work their way out of poverty and live successful lives. These are the people who wanted jobs, not handouts during the great depression.

Europeans also don't seem to realize how large a role the health care industry plays in the US economy. There are thousands of companies offering medical services, insurance, equipment, and supplies. The local economy where I live is dominated by the medical industry. Nationalizing the health care industry as a whole would result in a loss of thousands of jobs. Where I live nationalizing the health care industry would have the same effect as the closing the steel mills in the 70's.

The heath care industry in the US also invests heavily into developing new drugs and treatments methods. The vast majority of medical advances I hear and read about come from the US. I rarely hear of medical breakthrough coming from Europe.

Re: HealthCare
 

What I mean is is that if someone is on life support or something and the choice to pull the plug is an option, I would pull it. I don't support keeping alive genetically mutated babies and stuff like that. I mean, sure, it is alright to keep a grandfather alive if he is like 80. Basically, I don't see the point in wasting energy to keep someone alive who will never return the debt. Call me a psychopath, commie, whatever the hell you want, but I sort of support devolution in terms of technology, with a civilization somewhat like the Romans or something. AND i do realise that they were bad at times, but so are we.

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With all the money we've wasted on this cluster fuck war and the bailouts, we could have had a very good universal Healthcare system
In my opinion, if a doctor is only being a doctor for the pay, then they have no business being a doctor.

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You make it sound like Canada is the country of the purified healthy freaks who can't die because were invincible.

Our "free" health insurance is a piece of shit. My dad needs surgery on his arm, get this...
1. He has to wait 3-4 years for the free surgery
2. He can pay $70,000 for the surgery, that would be great, but he only has about $25,000 in his bank atm.
3. His doctor said he'd try and bump him up the list, he did, but then he bumped another person, and another person, so now my dad is in an even worse position.
4. Some old 80 year old near death(literally) is getting surgery done in a couple of weeks, why should my dad have to wait so someone whos going to die soon anyways can have hip surgery, when a lot of oldies need that surgery.

Anyways.. the tissues in his arm are deteriating, meaning, pretty soon his arm won't be able to function at all.

So sure, free health care for the world, but like economics, those who have money are more important, and will always become first priority over a man who has to work for a living.

Re: HealthCare
 

My my opinion, Private Heathcare and Universal Healthcare both blow. But its either one or the other though.

Re: HealthCare
 

I was once like you... then I grew up.

I was also once like you, then I became informed.





Edit: Oh I forgot to add:

Promote against alcohol and such intoxicants.


But we all know that those who want to destroy and control humanity would never ever think of doing that. They'd just ban it to promote it.

Re: HealthCare
 

Query me this: isn't most medication created with herbs as well as chemicals?

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Talk about holding a grudge (and holding it against the innocent, you shouldn't keep all of Europe responsible for the acts of the British Empire)? :lol:

Sure, we didn't fight countless wars with the Russians to be Russian either, but if the other has a working concept, why hate it only because you once very long ago were enemies?

That is true, it is difficult to introduce anything new, no matter how great, if the population and more importantly those who hold power, hate it, and often they hate everything new.

Sure, we still have old people who almost never throw anything away in case there is a new war and those who rather eat mouldy food than go to social services, but it doesn't mean you can't offer them a hand, it is their choice if they take it or not.

Anyone with an interest in politics knows that health care takes up most of the municipal budgets, it is neither cheap nor nonexistent just because it is universal and a lot more efficient than your corporate system.

You don't have to go to Soviet levels of nationalizing anyway, as far as I know most countries with universal health care still allow private companies to make and develop medicine and equipment, and in most cases even offer treatment. In the most basic form universal health care can be only nationalized health insurance with the private sector providing everything else, although that isn't necessarily the most efficient way to make sure everyone everywhere has good and equal access to it.

Even if you went for a completely nationalized system with a bang, which makes no sense to me unless you actually implement a completely communistic economy, which I can't see happening there, it doesn't mean people who actually do something useful will become unemployed. Those who do the bullshit fake stuff that only harm people would obviously be kicked to the street and those specialized on unnecessary plastic surgery would probably have to adjust, but I don't see what is so bad with that.

That is probably because you are from the US, I rarely hear of medical breakthroughs coming from over there either, the media prioritizes what they think the readers want to hear, at least our media doesn't normally bother tell about the progress of cures for e.g. AIDS or cancer unless the research is done somewhere close enough for them to visit.

Much of the research here is done by universities instead of private corporations though, so it isn't really done for profit and thus perhaps not what you consider medical advances.

Re: HealthCare
 

Oh, I see...so for spina bifida it's keeping the feet clean that's important...

No, but I don't need to to be able to tell you that the flu is a documented disease roughly 14 times older thant the Industrial Revolution.

I have no idea where you got that idea from. So please. Enlighten me.

Of course, pasteurization is a process applicable to a number of different drinks. But that is the product with which it is most associated. And I have no idea what you mean by "poor defenseless substances" (you spelt defenseless wrong, btw). A substance by definition cannot be defenseless, because by definition, to defend itself, said object has to be alive, or at least in some way able to control its environment. A molecule is, by no stretch of the imagination, sentient. And I don't think it can control its environment.

Please, tell me. Why would someone want to work for free?

So that means that by definition cancer simply did not exist before the Industrial Revolution? Sure, you say there were fewer deaths (and I would agree with that), but that is a far cry from the 0 deaths that would result if you were correct.

And you seem to forget, such synthetic/processed foods are vital for our hygiene.

So you would prefer your chocolate to start going mouldy before you opened the packet? You would prefer your pork to smell, literally, like a pile of rotten meat? And that's ignoring bacon, ham, smoked foods, cheese, yoghurt, etc etc, which don't exist without synthetic practises.

I don't know about most, I don't have the numbers. But certainly a lot of medication is made with an organically-derived (as in coming from something organic, not an organic molecule) chemical as a start.

Re: HealthCare
 

:cya:

Re: HealthCare
 

:confused:

:confused: wtf is the rhino?!

:vikki: See, the difference between 'work' and 'slavery' is that I get paid

I definitely know that if I got a Masters or a PhD in pharmacology or organic chemistry, I would not want my thousands of dollars on tuition, plus my four or five years spent obtaining my qualification, given to people who won't support me for curing them.

Hippocrates made observations and drawings of both malign and benign tumours, which would only have happened if cancer was a common enough problem to be recognized as a medical condition, and not just a sign of the Gods' misfavour.

Egyptian 'doctors' described cauterization of breast tumours around 1600BC, though they said there was no real treatment for the disease.

Throughout the middle ages doctors used simple surgeries to attempt to remove tumours, though these were often unsuccessful due to metastasis anyway, and because the patient usually died from the procedure or complications anyway.

So. Not rare cases, as you assert, but a common problem throughout Western history.

No, I didn't. Those methods are relatively recent. In the past, curing/smoking, making cheese, fermenting bread/wheat/malt/barley etc. were the only real methods of preserving foods. Otherwise your bread would start turning furry before the end of the month, your milk would curdle and become undrinkable, flies would swarm over your meat and render it inedible, etc etc.

And whether or not you, personally, consume pork is irrelevant.

You can't taste the difference anyway.

Re: HealthCare
 

Hopefully you do not consume humans.

Re: HealthCare
 

I said, most disease can be cured by good sanitation, and natural nutrition including remedies.

Sanitation is more than just washing hands... you also have to wash your feet.

Avoiding synthetic methods of mass production will help. And if they light has blinded your eyes, then maybe you should practice clicking within your mouth.

Most disease can be cured by good sanitation? I think not. Once you've got a disease sanitisation to the outside of the body will help only in an incredibly small number of cases.

As for prevention the standards of sanitisation most people live in these days are excessive and quite frankly counter productive already.

Use scroogle if you do not like google: Black cumin seed oil and search away.

Thymoquinone has shown promise as a prevenatitive and as a recovery aid after chemo, it's by no means a cure for cancer.

How interesting, you wish for slavery over humanity?

You wish the same in making them teach their kids. The question isn't whether they should be enslaved, you both want that, the question is what you're going to enslave them to do.

Sorry, I'm sure I didn't say milk. Pasteurization is used on many poor defenceless substances.

Sorry my sympathy only extends to things that are me.

But I wasn't just refering to hospitals, I was refering to pharma and biochem industries etc.

Of course they're for profit industries. Why on earth would I sink twenty years and billions of dollars into a thing if it was never going to yield a result for me?

How interesting, I note that back in the 1800's there were many less deaths from cancer.

Hardly surprising since only a tiny portion of the population had access to modern diagnostic equipment or a competent doctor back then which would assign them a cancer diagnosis.

Besides which cancer results from the degredation of cells during their reproductive stage. We now have more people living longer, hence more cancer.

Re: HealthCare
 

I do not. But then, hopefully you don't either. If you've never tasted something, how can you say you can't taste the difference between that and something else which by your own admission you don't eat?


Ah. But whether you consume pork or not isn't, except in the case where, as above, you try and distinguish between human and pig flesh by taste alone.


You are just backing up my point. It seems clear to me that the article refers to non-synthetic as merely being the fresh article, and nothing but. Therefore, anything you add to a food product to increase its edible lifespan, enhance its taste, or in any other way alter the food is deemed synthetic. So. Sodium chloride is synthetic. Ethanoic acid is synthetic. Phenols are synthetic. Your point that 'synthetic' purely means 'post 19th C' isn't very pertinent.

And I note that the website links to no studies by reputable food safety organizations (eg. FDA, UN, etc) to back up its rather grave claims. So, would you care to do that for us, lest your contribution be labelled as 'not really important'?


Indeed there is. But by the looks of things, even according to the American Cancer Society, cancer was recognized as a relatively common ailment at least since the time of recorded history, and most likely stretching far beyond that into human evolution:

And, may I add, the reason why your link says there is a huge 'increase' in the prevalence of breast cancer may be because of the formal recognition of oncology, the study of cancer, also in the 19th Century. Coincidence?


Oh. Is this like one of those 'popular science' books, where the author tries to use scare tactics to frighten the readers into believing his agenda, and misquoting, misinterpreting, or even not providing links to scientific studies to back up his agenda? I think so.


So...what if I'm self-employed? It's still work, isn't it? But just because I'm paying myself rather than someone else doing it for me, it suddenly becomes not slavery?


No, I've never had the flu. But I have had colds. So, in answer to your implicit question, yes, I can tell the difference between a rhinovirus infection and an influenza infection.


This is the pub. Not cool. :cort:

Re: HealthCare
 

Re: HealthCare
 

Next

Refer to peelu(perhaps the dental fibers)/miswak (carry it around) and thyme (boiled and cooled) as a mouthwash, avoid flouride (it only works because it's a poision).

My ex-wife and her family (who lived in a third world country) all had straight white teeth. Having British teeth does not appeal to anyone.

Re: HealthCare
 

On the contrary. The rise in cancer diagnoses gives credence to Nem's and my theory that cancer prevalence was relatively invariant before and after the Industrial Revolution, just that the number of cancers that were diagnosed increased because of a formal recognition and documentation of the symptoms, and allowing people a certain degree of self-diagnosis.

:vikki: Whether America has a long history is irrelevant. And there is no evidence to show that cancer rates have changed, that is the point.

And yet both potassium iodide (which is the form of iodine used in iodized salt) and magnesium carbonate occur naturally in seawater, just in insufficient concentrations to be beneficial to human health.

I don't see any difference between synthetic and organic methods of production of any chemical, as long as the result is the same chemical. Therefore, I see no reason why people should waste money on making something the natural way when it could be made ten times cheaper, in a quarter of the time, and the product is exactly the same.

:lol: Actually, phenols (and a whole host of other aromatic compounds) are formed from the incomplete combustion of fossil fuels. These aromatic compounds form part of the smoke that people use to, you guessed it, preserve meats by smoking. Same with ethanoic acid, there is no reason to produce something 'naturally' when a cheaper, quicker artificial process exists for it and the end products are exactly identical.

Which one? You have lots of them.

I can see you are a hopeless case.

Re: HealthCare
 

:withstupid:

Dude…you sound like Peter from Family Guy. Not trying to ride your ass here, but do you actually read your posts or copy and past from various Internet sites (of which some I don’t think you read either…) cohesive thought – please, thank you.

Re: HealthCare
 

Don't give up, you can do it!

You don't like peelu/miswak or thyme?

Re: HealthCare
 

:gay:

SPAMMER ALERT!

Not willing to logically respond to member posts other than to bait faro0485...then to the ignor list you go.:nodding: