Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

I myself am more interested in this. I dont care about Movies or Music that is just how I am. I dont pirate Movies, and I will admitt, I have in the past pirated lots of music. This discussion can be about ALL Piracy. But lets keep this about Intellectual/Software type of Piracy(not a bunch of somali boats).

The PC Gaming Industry is heavily suffering from Piracy. PC Gaming constantly gets MORE exclusives than other Consoles, and righteously a lot of them are AWESOME. But recently more and more companies are starting to release games on consoles as well, and other moving totally away from PCs. Thank god we still have a few powerful companies staying strictly PCs.

But the fact is, and I dont blame them, it is smart to move to consoles as well. Piracy has been costing millions to the PC gaming industry. many games that could be sold are pirated. certain ways to try to stop piracies are cool but end up as major flops(StarForce anyone?)

We are supposed to get all the good games and support, and the cream of the crop. But pirates are making it harder on these companies to compete!

Why is it hard for us to stop piracy and making it harder for games to be downloaded? Do even enough people care? Why cant someone make software similar to StaRForce that actually works? It just CANT be THAT hard to put up measures, maybe a programmer here can tell us?

mind you this isnt really a rant, but there has been a nice drain on games for PCs. And movie piraitng is a little different because almost ALWAYS the Actors get paid, and socially people LOVE going out to the mall and theatres to watch these movies before they are released. Music is getting cheaper and easier to buy, so it isnt as much as a problem as gaming.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

A game like battlefield 2142 cannot be played online without having a legit cd-key, unlike other games you cannot create servers that don't require you to have a legit cd key (as far as i know). One could apply this to every and all games, online game or no, you must be connected to the internet to verify your copy each and every time you play.

Sure, some people will be turned off by it, but i think the gaming industry will be better off.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

I actually wanted to initiate a discussion about copyright as well as noncommercial usage of copyrighted material in the new future, but I guess this does it. =p

Software like StarForce just stops people from making personal backups from legit software/games. In Germany btw, making personal copies (!) of CDs or DVDs is illegal, if a copy protection is cracked in the process of doing so. How silly is that??

Pirates (arrrrr!) can sooner or later circumvent any protection anyway.. And as far as I know, it's possible to rip console games as well. Heck, it's possible to emulate GameBoy or Nintendo64 games on a computer. =p

But I can somewhat understand people who e. g. want to "test" games/software/music before buying them. My last purchase was Quake Wars, I absolutely loved the Open Beta, I bought it, played it once, was completely turned off and I couldn't return it, as it was of course unsealed and now my freakin' 50 euros have gone to waste. -_-

Though I would be careful naming piracy as the reason for developers moving towards consoles. Other things may attract devs, e. g. the unified hardware setup or high quality graphics as well as certain features (Wii, anyone?).

Also, piracy is not the only reason why sales figures might decrease. One reason being bad support.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

The result is that EA requires you to buy a brand new copy of the game. Second-hand copies are useless, because the CD key can only be used for one computer. So they're raking the money in.

Connecting to the internet just to play single player is excessive, and not available to many people.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Although A LOT of people now have internet many dont. But there is a fix for the no internet thing. Telephone. You can get it activated over the phone, if there is no internet, what do you think?

I am a staunch opponent of StarForce but I believe if fixed and reworked it can work in helping against game piracy.

I agree with what you are saying, but usually hwen the game is released they have demos. Yes not all games have demos but most do, maybe when piracy is fixed we can get on to getting more demos ;) but for now the better and more important fix is piracy.

High Quality grpahics are so far STILL PC and probably will be for the longest time to come, especially with the recent 9600GT release. I still believe that piracy is the main reason. Computers are just a little more accesible, and doesnt need to be recoded to work for consoles. If a lot of people leech and pirate instead of making sales for a company, then why bother?

And yeah N64 and the like can be emulated, but I can play Mass Effect on my computer yet. Gotta wait for the PC version.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

lol, like with Windows? For every game? Oh, give me a break. ;)Well how exactly? There are coders out there eagerly waiting for new copy protection to show off their skills.

As I said, the only thing that copy protection does is stop people who have legally purchased digital content from making personal backup copies. And maybe stop a 12-year old kid from illegally burning a CD, but I guess those aren't knowledgeable in that particular field anyway.
If the absence of demos supported piracy, then filling that gap would be a step to decreasing the problem. =pHow many people, particularly adolescents or young adults, do you think have enough money for an up-to-date computer?
Consoles are a lot cheaper and a big variety of games will work without the need for updates.
Tbh what you believe has little meaning, unless you have studies backing it. =p

And actually, despite Canadian as well as recently Norwegian police announcing that they will not waste resources on chasing filesharers, I have not read that any sort of digital content purchases are dramatically decreasing in those countries.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

It's hard to create an anti piracy that will to a good extent because, if it's on there, you can get to it. Sure a bit of hacking might be involved to get to it, but you can still get to it. You would have to make so you have to connect to a company computer in order to play it in order to stop piracy almost completely.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Then again there are cracked versions which you can use on cracked servers... =p

What might decrease gaming piracy is basicly good products. You see, if people feel a game sucked (no dev support, short story, bad gameplay, whatever), why would they risk being ripped off again?

Sure, there would still be the "I never pay" and "I cannot afford it, even though I try to" pirates, but there will be more satisfied customers who feel the money was worth it.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

BBC NEWS | Technology | Rampant piracy threatens PC games

For every game? Every company would control its own lines and activations, but how many games does one person REALLY purchase? And it doesnt take THAT long to activate over the phone.

Another thing, it DOESNT have to be every game, it can only be the major game developers and thier main game lines even. Battlefield series for example. Age of Empires(well I mean if it was set from the past), Empire Earth, etc. etc. Sons of a Sor Empire, Im afaird might be pirated a LOT considering how good it is of a game.

Not all hackers are bad, its kinda like how PunkBuster and other software and security firewalls are always being updated, some of them can be hired to be good guys.

Its only a part of it, my freind has lots of money, is young enough to not pay bills yet, and he pirates games like World in Conflict, BioShock, and he even just got Frontlines: Fuel of War. so Demo or not some people are just plain out bad.

I was only talking about what you said about devs wanting higher quality graphics. And fact is the PC has them, and more and more people are getting better PCs, and if people ONLY play for graphics I feel sorry for them.

Studies?? You think Piracy doesnt cost people money?
BBC NEWS | Technology | Rampant piracy threatens PC games

Where I come from(Egypt), over the breaks I visit families and internet cafe' EVERY SINGLE computer in the country is equipped with cracked windows, and a VAAAST library of pirated games both new and old. Even on PS2s!

asI just said even the good games are being pirated, and a LOT! You cant be serious and think good games arent pirated.

There was another article that Id Software said that 5-1 of the callers for support are illegitamte owners of the pirated games.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

This is true, I had this problem with a second hand copy

EA tells the retailers that second hand copies won't always work, unless the person unregistered.

It's up to the game shop to test that, failure to do so is their problem and should be changed, or money given back.

As I said above, I had this problem, and the store in question apologised and swapped it for a new copy for no extra charge.

As for an end to piracy? Well I guess it might work.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Fair enough, but what about eBay and such?

The argument over piracy destroying games is the same as the argument about piracy destroying movies and music. Which is the same as the argument from the 1970s and 1980s:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ling_music.png
Oh noes!

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

To be fair, with eBay, you always run the risk of dodgy stuff.

Haha, this is true.

Personally, I just can't stand the look and feel of a fake game/DVD/CD.

I just like the real thing.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Console games can be copied very easily now that they are in DVD, HD-DVD, or Blu-Ray format. I imagine any CD systems were also copyable. The only solution I can see for that is a move back to console-specific storage devices. PCs are kinda fvcked, but I guess this is a good thing overall for the industry. Sure, some companies will lose massive amounts of money from people "testing" their game before they buy and either not buying it based on the crappiness of it or not buying it based on the frugality of the "tester". So the companies that will make money will be those who have games that people feel are worth playing, theoretically.

Does anyone think this might mean a revival of shareware/asking for donations?

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

I'm more concerned about the little companies. EA deserves to suffer for its wrongs inflicted on the gaming public. But people like Paradox Interactive, and all the other smaller publishers and game houses really do deserve support.

And I think they get it, because they've adapted to new conditions. For example the booster pack Armageddon for one of Paradox's leading games: Hearts of Iron 2 was sold off Paradox's website for $5. The Hearts of Iron 2 expansion Doomsday was sold online for $20, as well as in stores. Armageddon itself was based on the response and wishes of the gamers in the official forums, who wanted to extra features added, as well as the designers who wanted to implement new things.

Rather than say a Sims expansion that EA will flog off for $60 or more.
In sheer dollar terms, pirating a big-brand game is going to be more profitable because you will save much more money.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

amen to that.

and like marsoe said, its not big companys that are suffering. its the little ones. but even so, is piracy really dragging the market down that much? Ironclad themselves said that it wasnt a huge problem. And seriously, if they didnt gouge the prices so much, this problem would hardly exist.

and maul, its sins of a solar empire, not "sons of a sor empire."

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

I forgot what the name is LOL, but I enjoyed th egame, so dont be a grammar/spelling nazi on that :) but yeah, its actually the SMALLER companies that churn ou tthe greatest and best of games(in some cases big companie slike Blizzard)

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Not quite what I meant. The little companies had evolved their methods of distribution, and their pricing - as well as offering much better user support and involvement. As such, they suffer

The big ones, which tend to have poor support, excessive pricing, and old methods, are suffering more from piracy. If they want to reduce piracy, they should adapt the methods of the little companies.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

The key thing may be enough, I feel, as more and more games rely on multiplayer for a core component of gameplay, and tying even single-player gaming to an online registration might help the problem. But maybe doing it every time you play might be a bit excessive.

As an aside, I would never pirate any form of executable or .jar file, for the simple reason of computer security: the possibility that a virus or other malicious code has been woven into the application just rules it out for me.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

You can't stop it. Ever since we first started making things other people have made cheap knock offs. It's just that with the internet the cheap knock offs can be made at an incredibly low cost when compared to the price of the original. Technology isn't going to provide a magic bullet for you either.
You either learn to live with it, in game advertising etc, or you learn to tollerate a certain level of it and alter your marketing strategy to encourage people to buy, removed invasive copy protection, frequent updates requiring a valid CD key etc. Any case getting rid of it completely's a pipe dream.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Very true. There are also coders who crack copy protection mainly so ordinary people are not subject to restrictions in regard to copy protection etc. ;)
I'm not sure, but I thought in recent years people promoted consoles as providing quality graphics for regular users.
I didn't request studies to show that piracy costs money, but for your claim that piracy is the main reason for developers moving to consoles.

In any way, that is not an (independent!) study, but an interview with Todd Hollenshead, the CEO of Id software. The numbers presented are open to claims of bias.

What people also may not realise is that, even if a lot of games were pirated, many people who download them illegally may not actually be able to afford them, so in reality no profit is really lost.

This "cannot afford, even if I tried" can be seen also when costly software is pirated. Students who use illegal copies of e. g. Photoshop may have not been able to purchase the software. So even if they had not pirated their copy, they would not have (been able to) purchased a legal copy, which is always assumed, even in regard to music or movie piracy.

(I hope you understand what I'm trying to say, otherwise I'll have to rephrase it.. =p)What I was trying to say is that if people feel the money they paid for the product was worth it (including the price being appropriate), more people may be willing to buy a legit copy.
Well how do they find out?Yep, I agree.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Problem 1: Availability- Not every game is available everywhere, often it's delayed. If I could find a copy of "Sins ...." I would buy it, but I haven't seen it carried by any of the stores around here, and hell, I'm in the US. Old titles are often very hard to acquire, just try and find Deus Ex on a store shelf in good condition.

Problem 2: Insecurity of Internet transactions- Many are afraid of their credit information leaking somehow or getting stolen, making over the internet purchases more difficult.

Problem 3: Prices are high, quality is inconsistent. With things like Windows Live pervading multiplayer even more than it's predecessors like Gamespy, more and more features are promised, then locked off without further payments.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

I also would like to say that offering new games at different times in different countries is one cause of piracy.

I mean why not import something like a new final fantasy if its not due out in europe for over a year?

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Personally, I have pirated a handful of games, usually those that are sold in the shop for £2.99 (on account of being old) or maybe impossible to find (also on account of being old). But I always buy the latest games, sometimes I borrow copies off friends if I can and see what they're like, I also try the demo where there is one.
Most software is currently licensed to the end-user, you pay for the right to use it indefinately. You do not actually own the software. I personally think that the user should own the software, and then normal copyright law applies and the law only stops you distributing copies.
I would absolutely refuse to connect to the internet to verify my copy every time I want to play (at least on single-player) and including such a requirement would drive me to finding a crack to get around it.
I don't generally copy films/DVDs or games, unless I really can't find what I'm looking for (usually because it ceased production) and the few people selling them second hand are trying to charge 10 times the price for those desperate enough to get a copy.
I used to copy a lot of music, usually just odd tracks where I maybe like only 1 or 2 on an album, not enough to justify paying £12 or more for the whole album. Then came iTunes, which generally makes it much easier to find those odd tracks and only charges 79p. It's not like I don't buy on average 10 albums a year anyway.
To be honest, I have little sympathy for big companies like EA, film studios and record companies. They all have huge profit margins on their end products, the money doesn't seem to go to the creators of the content so much, although there is so much of it Actors and Musicians usually do end up very rich. I think though that the salaries of people involved in such industries is disproportionately high and it is hard to sympathise with them when they make losses. I couldn't live without music, but I think most of the artists I listen to, would (and some do) continue to make music even for a modest living. Certainly, they do not "lose" money because of piracy, they just profit less. Although I notice EMI is currently operating at a net loss, but that is due to the popularity of iTunes and the like.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Battlefield heroes is an example how it might work as anti-piracy, since it's free and is sponsored in other ways.
for example, the game has ads, and those who do not want ads can always pay for non-ad version or for more features.

but this doesn't pay as much as selling games. piracy to try out games without buying them? what's the demo for?

but in the other hand, some games are overpriced. i feel ripped of sometimes because i payed a lot of money for a crappy product.

i just hate when they make the demos better than the real thing. anyway, having an original feels a lot better than having a copy. i just don't want the small publishers to go out of business.

but there is no way to stop piracy, if there was the publishers would already do it. only thing they can do is slow it down, and make it harder to copy so noobs will mostly give up and buy the real thing.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Games should cost less especialy in country's like mine where the minimum wage is 200$, you just can't afford to pay 50$ for a game.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Gaming piracy can't and won't be stopped. The only thing companies can do to stem the tide is to make it tricker to crack and copy games, and perhaps pay other organizations to catch a few individuals who infringe copyright and sue their asses off, as it discourages others from pirating stuff themselves.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Anybody remembers old good game, Operation Flashpoint? It had this nice copy protection system named FADE. It was tied to your cd-key and it didn't care if you used cracks or anything like that, all that was relevant to it was authenticity of your cd-key else was just sideshow. If your cd-key wasn't real it started to corrupt and alter your games files and soon made it unplayable.

As far as I know not even many cd-key generators made to it helped as FADE somehow knew they too were wrong, you could pass installation but you couldn't cheat the FADE and it eventually killed your installation. System like that when used more could give some headache to those lowly pirates.

I too can confess that I have pirated games mostly because I want to test them before I'm going to give away my hard earned money. In past I just buyed them and many times it proved to be bad choice. Demos hardly ever give right impression as they are not from the final product and they are so limited. I know its wrong but I've learned that its better to test them beforehand than realize you have just wasted your money in something that isn't what all those reviews told. But those who pirate stuff and never ever buy the product afterwards are just pitiful.

But its too true that piracy have always been here and it shall remain with us. I remember how piracy just killed Amiga market as everyone just copied diskettes and never bought anything. And now with internet and torrents its just too easy.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

That still doesnt mean it isnt causing much. With the advent of the next-gen consoles(well the NOW consoles) it is easier to port games to those consoles. And sitll harder to pirate those vs. PS2 or Xbox.

Ok it could be you need to test a game, but sometimes when its a game like Gears of War, Spore, Civ 4, BF2, etc. Not much need to pirate lol, some games you just know are going to be good.

And I actually dont remember the whole Fade thing although I HAVE played the game. So why dont they start using that system in thier games?

'Subversive' code could kill off software piracy - 10 October 2003 - New Scientist

seems like a really cool way to stop things, if you read more into it seems to be really cool. Also I dont think we should pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into thisanti-pirate thing. it is SO easy to pirate a game right now and other software!! All it takes is a good search engine, or a web site dedicated for it, that goes around actually PROVIDING the content. There should be more done to curtail the number of the CASUAL pirate, I dont care about the hard core guys that sit around cracking codes lol, its the guys that me that dont kno sh*t but can still gewt a few games if needed.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

And then teenagers and students are sued for thousands of dollars? :rolleyes:

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

the biggest reason for pirating games in my country is that the games cost too much, and the salaries are not that big.
the fact that you can't find a newer game or movie here that costs less than $80 (unless they're really old) is the reason. especially since the average salary is around $620.

the thing is, a game like Sid Meier's Pirates or Command and Conquer: Tiberium Wars is worth those $80, but some games are crap and nobody wants to buy them based on a demo that was made to look better than the actual game.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Uh, yes, that's what happens. To quote Steal this Film II, it's like scaring a village into submission by chopping off the heads of some of the villagers and putting them on spikes. The difference is that in the real world, people aren't really discouraged. But what else can big business do? They won't go down without a fight.

Re: Gaming Piracy - How to stop it?
 

Maybe if you wanted to play online, then the account password is your CD key?

The difference is that it isn't personal enough. Everyone can get by on thinking that loads of other people do it, that it will never happen to them.