Ron Paul is Seriously Flawed as a Candidate

[Tas]

Originally Posted by Afterburner

Yeah, you basically hit all the bases. I don't believe in forced charity, simple as that. I don't think the government should forcibly remove money from me to pay for someone else's bills. I'll gladly do it on my own, willingly. But don't try to force it on me. If you want to pay into the system the go ahead and do it, but you have no right to force me to.

Freedom before equality is my motto.

That's very cute, however in practice it will turn out to be more like.. Luxury before care.. or... New car over life. You realize this is.. and would be more the case if your friend gets the job.

Does your personal wish to have more money to spread around come before the fact that a lot of people will come to suffer from this change, because this new found freedom will cause people to only look out to #1, maybe even yourself?

Doomed to die from a curable disease with a hospital around the street? Forced to "convert" so your kids can enjoy a basic education? Become a factory drone so one can at least get their kids dental care?

"Suffering before equality" would be a more fitting way of putting your free-for-all motto.

[Afterburner]

Originally Posted by Tas

That's very cute, however in practice it will turn out to be more like.. Luxury before care.. or... New car over life. You realize this is.. and would be more the case of your friend gets the job.

Does your personal wish to have more money to spread around come before the fact that a lot of people will come to suffer from this change, because this new found freedom will cause people to only look out to #1, maybe even yourself?

Doomed to die from a curable disease with a hospital around the street? Forced to "convert" so your kids can enjoy a basic education? Become a factory drone so one can at least get their kids dental care?

"Suffering before equality" would be a more fitting way of putting your free-for-all motto.

And I am(or rather, my family), at best, lower middle class, so I would have to deal with the problems of not having health care or welfare or not being able to get an education. If my ideal system was in place I likely wouldn't have a particularly good education and would probaly only be very lightly covered by insurance... maybe. I'm one of the people that would be disadvantaged by a Libertarian system. But I would still prefer it.

[Chemix2]

Were you actually to experience it, I think you'd feel differently

[Afterburner]

Originally Posted by Chemix2

Were you actually to experience it, I think you'd feel differently

I can't deny that is a possibility, as I have never experienced it and couldn't tell you how I would actually respond. I can only use my imagination and personal beliefs to think of how I would react.

At any rate, I don't think it's a good idea to switch to a FULLY Libertarian system quite yet anyways. A few Libertarian ideas implemented here and there , while still maintaining some government programs is my preferred approach right now. However I would like to see a focus on loans as opposed to just handing out money and services. They will allow someone to get what they need, while eventually paying for it later anyways. It isn't as "helpful" as a straightforward payout but it doesn't cost everyone else as much and many people only really need a short term monetary boost until they can get on their feet and pay it all back.

For instance, I'm fairly certain I'll be going into 160,000 dollars of debt for college... atleast. That would be from Government loans. But I am confident that after graduating I'll be able to pay it off fairly quickly.(I.E., before I become old and grey )

[Chemix2]

Why should life come down to paying a bill before we die?

[Tas]

Originally Posted by Afterburner

And I am(or rather, my family), at best, lower middle class, so I would have to deal with the problems of not having health care or welfare or not being able to get an education. If my ideal system was in place I likely wouldn't have a particularly good education and would probaly only be very lightly covered by insurance... maybe. I'm one of the people that would be disadvantaged by a Libertarian system. But I would still prefer it.

I find it quite puzzling you would let yourself and your family die, or slaved to a loan. That you would not go to college and wrench ford trucks all day trying to pay off this loan.. Instead of letting a % of your supposed low income go so you would not ever face these problems, could live to be as healthy as medicine can make you, and become the best.. say.. commercial airline pilot.
Just so you can sit in your grease stained coveralls, experience those odd coughs you have been suffering from for a few months and say. “at least I’m free to do with my money what I want”.


Doesn’t strike me as logical.

[Afterburner]

Originally Posted by Chemix2

Why should life come down to paying a bill before we die?

Because this isn't Neverland and everything isn't perfect. If everything were perfect then yeah we could just all share and be happy, but that is an impossible dream. Hell even I like the CONCEPT of Socialism where everything is shared, I just find it to be impossible to fully achieve, and unfair when only half implemented.

[Chemix2]

If we never try to make life enjoyable for most people? Then what is life worth living

[Afterburner]

Originally Posted by Chemix2

If we never try to make life enjoyable for most people? Then what is life worth living

Who said I wouldn't try to make life enjoyable for others? I just don't think it is at all within anyone's right to force someone else to do so. Let me tell you, I try to be as good a person as I can be and I try to help people as often as possible, and I would also gladly encourage others to be kind and helpful.But I would never, ever, try to force someone to be kind or giving against their own wishes.

[Tas]

Originally Posted by Afterburner

Because this isn't Neverland and everything isn't perfect. If everything were perfect then yeah we could just all share and be happy, but that is an impossible dream. Hell even I like the CONCEPT of Socialism where everything is shared, I just find it to be impossible to fully achieve, and unfair when only half implemented.

Naturally there is nothing unfair about someone purchasing the Hummer H3 to replace the mint Escalade they have because the wheels on it are bigger. Instead of youknow, giving to charity that in turn will give people the money they need to LIVE.

Not unfair.. just.. brutally selfish?

I still can't see why you'd rather gain a small portion of freedom than save people's lives.