3873410

August 21st, 2007 09:40 PM

That's because the very high quality of the Finnish public education system in general which is made up from national teaching plan & regulations, competent teachers, supporting all schools by the government instead of separating them into good & bad schools, giving proper funding for schools & institutions and taking care of "problem cases" & less gifted ones while giving room for bright students to succeed. And it's almost totally "free", paid by tax money: education is the key for individual's and society's success. People must be given equal educational chances and all students are taken care of while giving room for gifted ones (those who have higher IQ and/or are more hardworking & punctual).

Though Finland has no private schools we have a couple of elite high-schools for the most gifted students but no top universities like Harvard or Oxford. The details I provided in my last paragraph are the reason why the Finnish education system does so well in international surveys of learning results: students are there to learn, not to have fun and creating social relations merely comes as a side-product. Football universities, strong individual schools, splitting the education system in half and not giving adequate funding are not the ways to go.

3873425

August 21st, 2007 09:49 PM

Have 'em make toys like all the other little bastards!

3873950

August 22nd, 2007 06:53 AM

3873958

August 22nd, 2007 06:56 AM

Yeah, they do, and a lot of them get into drugs. Places like MIT (where many gifted kids go) have special coke days right before finals. =\

3874222

August 22nd, 2007 10:25 AM

me or him?
Well I'm not gonna lie both my parents studied psychology (yet my dad ended up working with computers and networking) so I do know some terms, plus I inherited some of my fathers perceptiveness. But there is no need to get so defensive if what I said isn't true; but I wouldn't know whether or not it is.
Not sure if that is true or not but it could be related to what I said before about EQ.

3875441

Pb2Au

August 22nd, 2007 06:45 PM

You guys should pay a little more attention. The thread isn't using gifted as a euphemism for mentally handicapped children, it's describing kids of higher than average intelligence. So no, the 'gifted' children that this thread concerns aren't retarded in any form of the word (except on occasion socially).

3876834

August 23rd, 2007 12:08 PM

my apologies that i didnt read all your posts people.

One stuff makes room for the other.

Gifted people are indeed gifted with a superior advantage.

Like you have people that have an extremely good sense of hearing but they have a very bad sight.

People that are soo damn smart they can calculate in a few seconds behind 0,00000000000000000001. but they are maybe retarded in communication.

Really, its how you look at it. Some guys only want to f*ck girls but don give a shit for school stuff. So one has a giftability he can attract girls like madness but he's kinda stupid on math, science level. For that person its really a gift of heaven because the stuff he likes, he has!

Mmh strange post and bad sentences in the end, you know im from belgium!

3877407

August 23rd, 2007 03:47 PM

Ah, allright my apologies. The use of euphemism brings up another debate.

3890179

Flakpanzer

August 30th, 2007 12:38 AM

I'm going to warn you right now, this post is going to be VERY long, but I hope that it will give some insight to those who don't understand the point of view from someone in such a situation; don't understand why those "smart" kids never did well in school and were the worst behaved. I'd appreciate it if you didn't act immature about this either. Last time I posted anything serious of this nature it fell on childish, immature eyes and only resulted in ridicule. I'm trusting you to not do the same.

The reason many of those who are tagged as "gifted" end up doing terribly in life is not necessarily because they aren't placed in an environment in which they can learn to properly socialize. In my case, I'm Autistic; I have Asperger's Syndrome. Those who are like me do not WANT to socialize like the typical child. They CAN'T socialize. Not in the typical way. Other children don't understand this, and ultimately, don't get along with those who are "gifted"

I functioned in such a way that I, generally speaking, didn't fit in or get along well with peers my age. I thrived, however, with the older crowd. I've never been a fan of social interaction, and thats a blatant throwback to the fact that I have AS. Contrary to popular belief, a good majority of these kids aren't just really smart "normal" kids. I honestly believe most of them show forms of various mental disabilities.

I know, its hard to draw the concept of a person with a disability actually functioning, mentally, better than their peers. I was expelled from public schools, and my court case helped pave the way for the new methods of working with, not against, other kids who went through the same struggles as I did. School districts changed to a more proactive role in supporting these children rather than taking punitive measures every time they acted out.

I can honestly say from my experience in school that it was probably one of the most traumatic, terrible experiences in my life. I could not function like everyone else in my class, I tried to reach out to them, find ways to get along, but it only caused strife, and when I lashed out emotionally as a reaction, I would be punished for it. Nobody knew what to do to help me, they didn't want to help me, the easiest thing was to say "Go home" and call my parents.

My dad used to punish me for acting out in school; not doing my work, and only my mom ever truly understood what was really going on. I was always on the verge of emotional breakdowns, constantly wondering whether taking my own life would just make it better. I wouldn't have to deal with the constant struggles of fitting in, living up to my dad's expectations, and making people proud.

As time drew on, they ran out of ideas (they ran through the usual "oh, its just a phase" type of plans, with counseling and such. Like I said, at this time, there wasn't any method to work with kids like me.) and decided to expel me. It was at this point in my life that things got the worst. I was confused, scared, and unable to understand why the people who were supposed to help me were suddenly turning on me, throwing me to another, more strict school.

I rode the storm. Rather, I WAS the storm. I attacked teachers and students, I exploded with emotional rage. The turmoil that had built up over the years took me to a primal stage of sorts. I reached a point where I was literally unable to control myself, I reacted out of anger, not rationality. Nothing mattered, and when these times arose, I felt like it was a life or death situation, and the people who were there to help were actually trying to kill me. I remember it with great detail, I remember how horrible it was. Teachers tried to scare me straight by pretending to file charges against me for my acts, they tried rewarding me for my good behavior, they tried separating me, putting me into classes with people I connected with, the works.

Nothing changed, I only grew worse. I found myself thinking suicidal thoughts again, and my medications only made it worse. Medications never made it better, always worse, and I learned over time that I can't rely on medication to control me. I learned to control myself, I learned about why I did the things I did, why I felt the way I felt, the reason that I couldn't communicate freely like everyone else.

I never did manage to function on the same level in the basic academics like my peers. I was in a school where everyone was riddled with emotional problems, nobody was stable. I was horrible in math, HATED math. I never got past algebra 1 by the time I graduated because I just couldn't do it. The work overwhelmed me. When the teacher said "do this" I just looked at it and felt this sense of impossibility in the task bestowed upon me. I just could not do it.

This same feeling carried on throughout all of my classes. The only time I truly excelled was in all of the science classes and history. Outside of that, I just couldn't do it. I never did homework, never took notes. I passed my classes through my tests. I didn't pay attention to the teacher and half-assed my way through school at this point. I felt like I could be doing something so much more interesting, like playing video games or sleeping. I was depressed.

In fact, looking back at these times, I can't think of a time that I wasn't depressed. Many people figure that being smart is a good thing; it is, but not in the same regard as being smart because you have a disability.

Ironically, after all of this, I graduated a whole year early, but because of the crippling social anxiety that I feel in social situations, I chose not to attend my graduation ceremony at my home highschool.

In retrospect, I'm glad that I was born with AS. If I wasn't, I'd not be the person I am today. Its made me stronger, its made me a better person. I've grown to a level that nobody thought I'd ever reach. Looking back, I see why. Its hard to imagine that I've changed so much in a few years. I've turned around 200%. It fills me with a sense of amazement and satisfaction knowing that I went from a kid boucing from suspension to suspension, to an adult working their dream career in the Veterinary field, fulfilling my dreams, living the life nobody thought I'd ever have.

I still have the reminders of my past, the scars, both physical and emotional, constantly gnawing at me, reminding me of days past, the times when things weren't great, when things were so bad, that it made me consider suicide. I am not afraid to openly admit I've never had a girlfriend, either. Even when I was capable of being rational in my later years, the social anxiety was just so much that I couldn't ask girls on dates, none of that. Now, in a forced social interaction, most people notice one thing: I'm quiet. Nobody suspects that I have AS though, in fact most people don't believe me and think I'm lying.

However, even though I can force myself to function if I have to, I cannot interact the same way as a typical person would. I don't share the same emotional bonds, not openly anyways. While its been shown that those with Autism tend to share a stronger bond with their guardians and those they trust, they do not show it the same way as a normal person. I'm no different. I don't show my love, my gratitude, my happiness the same way the rest of you can. I subconciously shield myself, hiding my feelings, only allowing the bare minimum to get the general idea of what I'm feeling across.

People don't understand that, and THAT is why gifted people rarely function as well as others. They cannot show people what they're feeling as simply as everyone else. Its an internal struggle as much as it is a struggle with society to be understood.


Sure, we're smart, but no matter what, we'll always be inferior socially. Thats the plain and simple of it. Granted, you may think all of this is horse shit because I type decently, but I do communicate better in text. I don't communicate anywhere near as well in face to face or on the phone. I'm very sarcastic and emphasize making jokes wherever I can. It helps me feel more comfortable in the social situation, and the same goes for a great deal of those who also have autism. They try to be funny, its not because of a need to be the center of attention, in fact, thats the last thing we want, we want to be accepted, to be seen as one of you. The outbursts are a sort of this, an attempt to be seen, heard. Unfortunately, even now, it falls on deaf ears because the people who dedicate their lives to helping us still don't understand what its like. Nobody ever will.

Every gifted person is unique in thier diagnoses and spectrum.

Being "gifted" isn't some kind of blessing, if anything, when I was first labelled "gifted", I see it as the beginning of the terrible things that followed. I'm glad though, that I was born with it. I'd never have asked for anything else. It helped me learn about myself, and even though I harbor a significant distrust of others and social anxiety, I hope to make my mark in the world by doing something good. I hope to be understood and accepted, and show that I too, am capable of doing something useful.

3891786

August 30th, 2007 03:40 PM

they're children, just because they seem to be "smarter" than others doesn't mean the should be treated better than others