I am just annoyed by the combination of disregarding the law and then demanding the same rights that someone who worked within the laws gets. I consider any form of legal rights beyond those that all humans should have
proof that you can cheat the system and come out ahead.
I can understand that demanding rights others worked for seems wrong. But I can also understand that these people just want to make a better life for themselves and there families and not live in a shit hole. If you could save your family by giving them more oppertunities to live a much better life, wouldn't you atleast try?
Let them march. They work twice as hard as most of us do, they have a right to request citizenship. If you haven't read up on the requirements to be a citizen of the U.S., you might want to do that. It's not exactly a walk through the park.
I don't understand why people hate them so much anyway.
Under no circumstances should we let these illegals gain citizenship. They have already broken our laws by crossing the border. You do not reward criminals for disobeying our law while other foreigners wait legally to gain citizenship.
We have already been paying tens of billions of dollars in our taxes to cover the expenses illegals use that their labor does not cover. The amount illegals take is nothing compared to the amount that illegals give back by work or sales tax. California itself loses 12 billion dollars annually due to the medical , emergency service, and city expenses every year. This $12 billion comes after the amount of money illegals give back has already been figured in. In addition, by legalizing illegals, the amount of money needed for social security and benefits will go way up since an addition 12-20 million people will be added to the benefits roster; all of the services they will use will be coming from my money, your money, and everyone else's.
They need to get kicked out.
P.S.
Do not waste your vote on a Partisan Democrat ticket. Don't vote for Obama simply because you are a self-proclaimed Democrat either. It's far too early to decide who to vote for since everyone on both sides appear to be spineless empty vagabonds. I see this the same in Obama but people disregard this because they view him as a "fresh" start when in reality he is more of the same.
Well lets start here, " they are all good hardworking folks ?" Then why is one out of 3 inmates in our prision population a illegal immigrant? Then lets look at the spanish gang problems such as MS-13. We took their land ? Was it not the spanish who came over and killed the mexican aztec race? And what we did take, too bad! We took land off the american indians also, thats life! deal with it! I dont care about their cause! This is america we are a soverin nation and we HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL OUR BORDERS! We can not handle a population surge like that it will destroy the country! This has to be controled. We need to be able to screen out the good hardworking ones from the thugs and ect. But how dare they come here and demand anything!!!!! I feel most of them just love our welfare programs and free education programs! As far as the argument they do work no one else wants to do i say we have all kinds of inmates in our prision system that can do the work for free! Mabey MEXICO can trade us free oil for takeing care of all their people? Because i am sick of being taxed to death to support them! This is America we make the rules! Not the throw backs from some 3rd world dirt country !
Well lets start here, " they are all good hardworking folks ?" Then why is one out of 3 inmates in our prision population a illegal immigrant? Then lets look at the spanish gang problems such as MS-13. We took their land ? Was it not the spanish who came over and killed the mexican aztec race? And what we did take, too bad! We took land off the american indians also, thats life! deal with it! I dont care about their cause! This is america we are a soverin nation and we HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL OUR BORDERS! We can not handle a population surge like that it will destroy the country! This has to be controled. We need to be able to screen out the good hardworking ones from the thugs and ect. But how dare they come here and demand anything!!!!! I feel most of them just love our welfare programs and free education programs! As far as the argument they do work no one else wants to do i say we have all kinds of inmates in our prision system that can do the work for free! Mabey MEXICO can trade us free oil for takeing care of all their people? Because i am sick of being taxed to death to support them! This is America we make the rules! Not the throw backs from some 3rd world dirt country !
first of all there's really no need for all that extra junk in all that it's just your emotions overflooding.
yes illegal immigration is a problem, yes our borders should be protected better, and yes we should kick them out if they don't have a green card.
no the illegals shouldn't be given rights, no our government isn't doing anything about it, and no there's not really to much that the legal citizens can do about it...what are we going to do say "leave or i'll put a bullet right between your eyes"? i highly doubt that that would make them leave, if i remember exactly right it takes 14 years to become a citizen and not need a green card.
if everyone cared and nobody lied, if everyone shared and swallowed their pride we'd see a day that nobody died.
Under no circumstances should we let these illegals gain citizenship. They have already broken our laws by crossing the border. You do not reward criminals for disobeying our law while other foreigners wait legally to gain citizenship.
I have a feeling that they didn't break the law with criminal intent, but more so to be able to feed their families.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseBobo
We have already been paying tens of billions of dollars in our taxes to cover the expenses illegals use that their labor does not cover. The amount illegals take is nothing compared to the amount that illegals give back by work or sales tax. California itself loses 12 billion dollars annually due to the medical , emergency service, and city expenses every year. This $12 billion comes after the amount of money illegals give back has already been figured in. In addition, by legalizing illegals, the amount of money needed for social security and benefits will go way up since an addition 12-20 million people will be added to the benefits roster; all of the services they will use will be coming from my money, your money, and everyone else's.
Social Security is already a major issue, what with the population pyramid flipping itself over due to the Baby Boomers heading up to the top where they will all be supported by us. I have my doubts about the longevity of Social Security, or that we'll have anything left by the time that we need it anyway.
The thing about illegal immigrants and working is that they take the jobs that most middle-class, possibly even lower-class citizens don't want to take. That alone improves everyone's quality of life, when they're willing to do service jobs that most of us aren't.
And if you've ever actually met some of these people, you'd know that it's impossible to paint an evil picture of them. All they want to do is to work and support their family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseBobo
Do not waste your vote on a Partisan Democrat ticket. Don't vote for Obama simply because you are a self-proclaimed Democrat either. It's far too early to decide who to vote for since everyone on both sides appear to be spineless empty vagabonds. I see this the same in Obama but people disregard this because they view him as a "fresh" start when in reality he is more of the same.
I have a feeling that they didn't break the law with criminal intent, but more so to be able to feed their families.
Regardless of their intentions, illegals increase crime and lower the standard of living for our own American citizens. They cross over because their country [Mexico] is corrupt and they choose to do nothing about it; instead they come to the U.S.A. and demand full rights when they leech off of the system by breaking our own laws.
Quote:
Social Security is already a major issue, what with the population pyramid flipping itself over due to the Baby Boomers heading up to the top where they will all be supported by us. I have my doubts about the longevity of Social Security, or that we'll have anything left by the time that we need it anyway.
This is exactly correct, which is why we simply cannot afford to add 20 million people to an already broke system.
Quote:
The thing about illegal immigrants and working is that they take the jobs that most middle-class, possibly even lower-class citizens don't want to take. That alone improves everyone's quality of life, when they're willing to do service jobs that most of us aren't.
You make too many general assumptions here in regards to the jobs they do. Illegals are not just limited to the "poor workers on the farm" stereotype you seem to have. Many illegals have stolen Social Security Numbers and fake I.D. cards who attain jobs what you would call "normal" Americans could work, like being a mechanic or working at a fast food joint. And as I have already told you, quality of life goes down with illegal immigration, not up. We lose billions of dollars each year because they leech on the system and do not give back through the sales tax and money they put back into the economy.
Hospitals have to constantly foot the bill when an illegal citizen needs medical attention because hospitals cannot refuse medical service to anyone. Who gets to pay for that? You and I. Prisons and jails are overcrowded with illegal alien criminals. The cost on average is $36,000/year for an inmate after taking into account the food, spacing, and payment for the guards to watch these scumbags. 95% of those in L.A. County lockup are deportable, so you can do the math on that one.
Quote:
And if you've ever actually met some of these people, you'd know that it's impossible to paint an evil picture of them. All they want to do is to work and support their family.
This is another stereotype of yours with a "bleeding heart" attitude. If you really cared for these people you would realize that by having them here causes many hardships for our own American citizens who do not cheat the system. The only way to fix the problem with illegal immigration is by fixing Mexico, not legalizing them here in the United States which would as a result throw a huge tax burden on citizens who already cannot afford what little benefits they have in the first place; benefits they actually pay for, unlike illegals.
Quote:
What does this have to do with anything?
On this thread? Not really. About you? Everything.
Regardless of their intentions, illegals increase crime and lower the standard of living for our own American citizens. They cross over because their country [Mexico] is corrupt and they choose to do nothing about it; instead they come to the U.S.A. and demand full rights when they leech off of the system by breaking our own laws.
That's absolutely wrong. You realize that Mexicans born in Mexico have an average incarceration percent of 0.07, where as for U.S. born Mexicans, it's almost 6%? Not to mention that from 1994 to present day, violent crime has dropped by over 30%, where as the number of immigrants has increased by 12 million.
Quote:
This is exactly correct, which is why we simply cannot afford to add 20 million people to an already broke system.
If it's already in ruins, you can't use it as arsenal against immigrants. Native-born Americans broke it, it has nothing to do with them.
Quote:
You make too many general assumptions here in regards to the jobs they do. Illegals are not just limited to the "poor workers on the farm" stereotype you seem to have. Many illegals have stolen Social Security Numbers and fake I.D. cards who attain jobs what you would call "normal" Americans could work, like being a mechanic or working at a fast food joint. And as I have already told you, quality of life goes down with illegal immigration, not up. We lose billions of dollars each year because they leech on the system and do not give back through the sales tax and money they put back into the economy.
You do an excellent job of accusing me of doing exactly what you are doing. It's not a stereotype, it's a fact that immigrants do take jobs that no one else wants. But if you want to go the route of "taking American jobs," we'll go that way. The unemployment rate is 5%. It's been that way for years, and it's not like we're going through a Great Depression or anything. They're not going to go for anything that the average American would take, because most Americans have an American education... illegal immigrants don't. They can't take jobs that require an education, so they go back to agriculture or manufacturing -- the jobs they're used to doing, but in better working conditions for better wages.
Quote:
Hospitals have to constantly foot the bill when an illegal citizen needs medical attention because hospitals cannot refuse medical service to anyone. Who gets to pay for that? You and I. Prisons and jails are overcrowded with illegal alien criminals. The cost on average is $36,000/year for an inmate after taking into account the food, spacing, and payment for the guards to watch these scumbags. 95% of those in L.A. County lockup are deportable, so you can do the math on that one.
As I said before, a Mexican born man has an incarceration rate of 0.07%.
Quote:
This is another stereotype of yours with a "bleeding heart" attitude. If you really cared for these people you would realize that by having them here causes many hardships for our own American citizens who do not cheat the system. The only way to fix the problem with illegal immigration is by fixing Mexico, not legalizing them here in the United States which would as a result throw a huge tax burden on citizens who already cannot afford what little benefits they have in the first place; benefits they actually pay for, unlike illegals.
A bleeding heart attitude? Stop trying to make this argument a personal one against me, ffs. It doesn't cause any hardships for us, because, as I said before, they don't have an unusually high crime rate and they don't take the jobs that we want. "Fixing" Mexico would cost so much more than providing for these illegal immigrants.
Quote:
On this thread? Not really. About you? Everything.
Then don't talk about it in this thread. Once again, making this argument a personal one against me isn't going to help your case any.
I don't care much if they hurt the system. I just don't like them. Mostly because they often act as if they love their home country more then the U.S. If you are actually moving TO the U.S. then you damn well better want to become a part of this country. Speak English, pay taxes, and be American.
Native American, African American, Mexican American, German American, Caucasian American. It's about time we just be Americans and drop the god damn adjectives. I don't hate any race, I just hate anyone who puts their race before their country. You don't have to be super nationalist or anything, in fact that would be bad, but out of all the cultures you might come from your current culture should be the most important to you.
I don't care much if they hurt the system. I just don't like them. Mostly because they often act as if they love their home country more then the U.S. If you are actually moving TO the U.S. then you damn well better want to become a part of this country. Speak English, pay taxes, and be American.
So why should i not be proud of my culture? I mean when it comes to art i can like both Frazetta and Frida can't I? When it comes to music i can like both music in English and in Spanish? I was born in Mexico but here I am a naturalized citizen that files his taxes and i do that and if your offended by me blasting some spanish Ska in my car than i don't care. If your offended by me going to Spanish Ska concert clad in a silver wrestling mask than i don't care. How about the Irish that fly their flag proudly and sing Irish tunes every St. Pattys? Or how about the Puerto Ricans that fly their flag every time they have their parade.
So to put it in simple terms your a xenophobe?
I gotta get ready to work so i will respond later at night.
You don’t have to be a computer whiz to be good for the U.S.A.
Tyler Cowen and Daniel M. Rothschild
Google, Yahoo!, and Sun Microsystems were all founded by immigrants—from Russia, Taiwan, and India, respectively. There is nearly universal agreement that skilled immigrants are an enormous boon to the American economy.
But what about the millions of unskilled laborers who arrive in this country every year? Recent public discourse would have us believe they poach American jobs, lower wages, and sponge off welfare. Yet economic research suggests a different picture: Unskilled immigrants are good for the U.S., and the U.S. is good for them.
Until the late 1990s, when a boom in native-born self-employment occurred, immigrants were more likely than natives to work for themselves. Immigrant small businesses, from the Korean corner market to the Mexican landscaping service, are as American as apple pie. The labor market is not a zero-sum game with a finite number of jobs; immigrants create their own work.
A key question for economists has been whether the influx raises or lowers “native” American wages. U.C.-Berkeley’s David Card, who studied patterns in different U.S. cities, concludes that immigration has not lowered wages for American workers. George Borjas of Harvard counters that immigration reduced the wages of high school dropouts by 7.4 percent between 1980 and 2000.
Most economists have sided with Card. For one thing, his studies better capture the notion that immigrant labor makes work easier for all of us and brings new skills to the table. Additionally, as Card points out, the percentage of native-born high school dropouts has fallen sharply during the last few decades, creating a shortage of unskilled laborers that immigrants fill. In 1980 one out of three American adults had less than a high school education; by 2000 this figure had fallen to less than one in five.
Gianmarco Ottaviano of the University of Bologna and Giovanni Peri of the National Bureau of Economic Research have shown that immigrants and low-skilled American workers fill very different roles in the economy. For instance, 54 percent of tailors in the U.S. are foreign-born, compared with less than 1 percent of crane operators. A similar discrepancy exists between plaster-stucco masons (44 percent immigrant) and sewer-pipe cleaners (less than 1 percent foreign-born). Immigrants come to the United States with different skills, inclinations, and ideas; they are not looking to simply copy the behavior of American workers.
New arrivals, by producing more goods and services, also keep prices down across the economy. Even Borjas, the favorite economist of immigration restrictionists, admits the net gain to the U.S. from immigration is about $7 billion annually.
During the coming decades, the need for immigrant labor will increase, according to demographers. The baby boom generation will need more health care and more nursing homes. The upcoming Medicare fiscal crunch will require more and younger laborers to finance the program.
Some argue that we should employ a more restrictive policy that allows in only immigrants with “needed” skills. But this assumes the government can read the economic tea leaves. Most bureaucrats in 1980 did not foresee the building or biomedical booms of the 1990s, or the decline of auto manufacturing. We should not trust government to know what kind of laborers we will need 20 years from now. The ready presence of immigrant workers, including the unskilled, makes all businesses easier to start and thus spurs American creativity.
We should not forget that immigration is good for the immigrants themselves. It often means the difference between extreme poverty and the good life.
Card finds that post-1965 immigrants, according to U.S. census data, have a good record of assimilation. Second-generation children have, on average, higher education and wages than the children of natives. Of the 39 largest country-of-origin groups, the sons of 33 and the daughters of 32 of those groups have surpassed the educational levels of natives’ children.
Finally, it is fitting that both Card and Borjas are themselves immigrants. Borjas emigrated from Cuba when he was 12, and Card came from Canada to earn his doctorate at Princeton. Their very debate shows how immigrants have become central to the American enterprise.
Yes, immigration brings some real costs. But most of these problems are concentrated in a few border and urban areas; federal policy can help correct the imbalances.
Americans have heard from politicians for more than 200 years that immigration will cause the sky to fall. Yet each time it has only made us stronger.
Not all people hang out in Mommys house hiding from the vagina, pete. Some of us MEN like it.- Beef Flaps
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if everyone cared and nobody lied, if everyone shared and swallowed their pride we'd see a day that nobody died. 
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