Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

I have little argument here, because unlike threads based on intangibilities and vaporous entities, the Global Crisis has tons of evidence to back it up. It needs little argument from casual folk. In a few years this issue will be as real to the people here, as the screen their viewing. Some people just don't see the effects yet. Give it time, and they will.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

There is very little carefully thought out "process" to industry, you build what makes money, and the little companies that supply the big companies, well they don't get more or less play because of their policies on the enviornment. These are the chemical plants, the small parts manufacturers, the steel refineries, products that aren't directly bought by average consumers, but by big companies to build things consumers do directly by, or to provide services for customers. These bigger companies can often be found linked to dozens of polluting little companies, but only in tabloids, because their lawyers give them very wise legal advice as to shredding documents that the press might find interesting, so forgo the clean versus dirty industries and simply pick whoever produces the cheapest product at the most volume with the least shipping charges. When's the last time a person thought about where the diodes in their computer's motherboard came from?... Never.

As towards my views on imperialism, is my sig link broken? do you normally have my post status set to ignore? I AM an IMPERIALIST, screw the paperwork and bullshit talks, if you need to protect a rainforest, you send troops there and you guard that rainforest. And as for the Lebanon/Israeli, we're not occupying an entire nation, no urban dealings, period. These soldiers would be deployed to the tree line, and stay there, building what they should need from imported concrete. Costs be damned, better to be a few billion dollars short than running out of oxygen. Furthermore, it's not their resource to obliterate, it's a global resource to be protected. Without the rainforests, the bulk of plantlife on this PLANET, not this side of the world, this PLANET, are there. This means the oxygen is there, and that the medicine is there, and that there are non domesticated, self sufficient ecosystems there which we haven't completely screwed up yet, simply mamed.

Natives are payed a nickle a day to cut down trees, better for us to simply pay them dollars a day to help guard the rain forest, they'd be happy enough. I somehow doubt that logging companies are going to be able to mount a massive offensive much less a geurilla war, I mean, in South America, where are they going to get weapons from cheap enough to make it effective? Venezeula is up shits creek, Mexico knows that if they started helping US enemies we'd crackdown on the borders and as a result they would have a whole lot more unhappy protesters placading their government buildings, and Russia is an ocean away (can you say? Shipping). The real threat is beaurocracy and corruption within our own government.

As towards kids running home crying to their parents that the world is going to end, they probaly also are scared of everything else on this planet, starting with wild animals, then " outside " and furthermore, " people ". Kid's don't run and play anymor as people are too scared of the world they live in, to live in it. Hell I'm all for hand sanitizer, tissues, bandaids, modern applicances, but kids going outside, or heaven forbid walking through the city to get to school, is getting more and more unheard of. Pedophiles, psychopaths, drug dealers, drug addicts, drunkards, bullies, thugs, gangs, all reasons for people to be scared the hell out of by the world outisde their front door, and that fear is why the outside world continues to get less and less open to kids, whereas people are going moreso to computers and message boards to socialize and all the while forget about the world beyond the plastic and metal, the world of the woods, the world full of people. Should kids be allowed to frollik next to gang members in shoot outs, no, but that kid should be reason enough for people to take initiative against gangs and the outside world. Huddling in a corner won't do anything, going out there and trying to solve problems will atleast be an attempt. Fear can be a great motivation, if only we'd learn how to use it.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

An interesting article on the suppression and censorship of scientific study and data related to polar bears and generalized global crisis discussions was posted on the routers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070308/ts_nm/polarbears_scientists_dc_2

Gotta love the active “effort” being put into suppressing information eh?

So much for being up-to-date on international scientific communities with this kind of policy in effect. Least as far as traditional media goes, because they still have the "Internets".

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Yeah, well, George Bush is a nut. I thought America was doing quite well during the Clinton administration (I couldnt care less about Monica Lewinsky) but then Bush Jr came along. i admit 9/11 made things worse for him, but he could have handled it far better.

By the way, Bush is paying for people to give him articles that damn global warming and claim everything is a hoax, that nothing is wrong. Notice he's not paying for articles that say global warming is true. You can tell which side of the fence he's sitting on.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

I most likely lean to what people would consider the conservative side, so I do not believe W. is a nut... A impedent moron maybe, but hey, thats just me. Though, I felt quite similarly about clinton.. minus the impedent part. ;)

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Who do you want to win these elections?

Seriously, Bush has denied funding for stem cell research, and he has continued the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (I think most people have forgotten about that). And then, while he is getting everybody else to disarm their nuclear warheads, he goes on and gets a new design for his own warheads, to make them 'better', i.e. deadlier. What a hypocrite.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Sadly I didn't have time to thoroughly ready through all of this, but I read the first page and ksimmed the other two.. I'm gonna post some points here and read the erst later :P

As far as Bush goes... (Off topic, I know) he is reason #3 that Enron was able to make almost 70 billion doller swhile remaining thirty billion in debt.. I just learned of this today and lost all respect for him.. Continuing, I was going to vote for McCain in the '08 elections untill I found out he stabbed a good friend in the back when he got the chance. Bush is the last person I will ever vote for.. Politics has gone south.

Now back on topic:
Global Warming..

CO2 emissions: This is a subject that has been gone over and gone over and gone over. We as a human race breath as much CO2 in a year as 300% or more than vehicles put out. Vehicles are not a problem with Carbon Dioxide though they are with Carbone Monoxide (get to that in a minute). And there is an argument that with the destruction of the Rain Forests the CO2 will rise much more putting th human race in jeopardy.. This is total bull. On top of the above stated 80% of our oxygen from the ocean. It all comes from there. And as far as our CO2 Emissions go.. There is almost no way to tell how vast the changes have been in the last century.. We've only been able to track that efficently for several decades.

Temperatures: The simple fact is, the planet has and will change. We have had 7 Ice Ages and numerous intollerably hot spans of years. The climate will change over millions of years.. It's just how the world works. We are going to experiance warmer days and colder nights. People in arid climates (like me) will feel it much worse than those in moister and the tropics will get hit pretty bad as well. It's a natural course of the Earth's History. The earth's orbital speed changes.. This alone is enough to closely rule out man-made interferance though we cannot totally rule it out.

Carbon Monoxide: BS is all I can say here. It is going to have an effect.. When we all die and so do our grandchildren. We are still in a point where the impact on the atmosphere has been negligable to some large degree. The ammount of CO put out by motor vehicles has greatly declined in the last 15 years. Continuing, if the ammount of CO were to have a large effect it would take something in the neighborhood of 9 billion cars This means 1.4 (if I did my math right) cars per person running daily and it jsut doesn't happen. The environment can take care of sometihng this small. Oil spills are ten times are destructive as CO emissions.
The Atmosphere is just too big. If it drives everyon crazy enough I could figure out the volume of the atmosphere and average car emissions and compare them along with some scientific data and get a good idea of how long untill we'd see a major effect from CO emissions by both vehicles and factories. This would take a week or two and would eb useless.. Like I said, it's just too big.

That is my argument and I've been browsing the internet for an hour writing this so I didn't punch it up in 5 minutes.. I am serious about the mathmatics, but it would take some time. The numbers we're talkin about would have to be measured in metrics and they would be enormous. Global warming is happening, but not as it is being told.. It's a tool of the corporations to get you to buy their product.. It will be an issue, but not in our lifetimes and not in those our our great-grandchildren.. All we can do is our part to help it now.

Luck and best wishes to all,
-Atrusino Savituri

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Cars are not the only contributor, not the biggest either. Almost 40% come from power stations and industry (of greenhouse emissions that is).
Transportation fuels (cars and planes mostly) contribute 14%.

Like which product? If you're talking about energy-saving stuff, it's just a good idea to conserve energy in the first place, global warming or not.

So what do you suggest our part is?

Oh, and welcome to the forums. I see you're new. Enjoy the discussions.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

The "miracles" of stem cell research are dubious at best. Sure we should investigate it, but its certainly not worth all the money its proponents want poured into it.

You break it, you fix it.

You see - in the REAL world, you want your own weapons effective, but you don't want lunatics like Kim Jong to have such weapons.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

It's not as simple as that. Usually, its the choice between 3 or 4 people who either have the money or the connections to run, which that in itself is not necessarily a bad thing. But given the choice between George "W", and Slick Willy... I'd pic an unnamed candidate.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

No, that just proves that Bush is a hypocrite - preaching nuclear disarmament, while getting new nuclear warheads at the same time? No wonder the Koreans and Iranians dont take him seriously.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

You want the best weapons possible, while at the same time preventing potential world enemies from getting them. Not a hard concept.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Not a hard concept but the potential world enemies you mention may disagree with it. It only works one way.

By the way how did the topic shift to this?

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

I'm sorry, that must be me.

As long as the US itself has thousands upon thousands of nuclear warheads, it cant really say anything about disarmament - during the Cold War, even when the Russians wanted to disarm nuclear weapons, the US refused.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Of course they do. That's why they're called "enemies". ;)

In NZ, many police and citizens carry around guns - yet they don't allow convicted felons to carry guns. Ahh! Hypocrites!

Clauswitz discussed this. When weak, try to compromise. When strong, seize your advantage.

The Russians were completely unable to keep up with us in the arms race, so they tried to stall for time, or negate our advantage with a treaty.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

LOL, ordinary police on the beat are forbidden to carry guns, thats why they have to resort to pepper spray and batons. They're trialling the taser as well, but i dont think it'll work.

The russians wanted to stop the arms race so that a) somebody didnt annihilate the other accidentally, and b) the Russians could concentrate more on their domestic economy rather than military.

And we dont call them felons. If you had this guy who was an ex-murderer or assaultist or something, would you let him carry a gun?

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

You have a right to bear arms. My point still stands.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes, all those armored divisions near the border and the massive submarine fleet were there just for "domestic economy".

The USSR bankrupted itself building up a huge military. The only thing preventing them from streaming into western Germany was our massive nuclear arsenal.

Exactly. Decent nations like the USA, Germany, or the UK can have nukes. But a nation run by a totalitarian nutjob, like Iran or N. Korea, can't have nukes.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Towards Arch
I think you're missing the point on the felons, he's saying that the US is the responsible nation, and irresponsible nations like Iran and North Korea who have massive problems of their own, in the way they act towards other nations (Hostile) and the way they treat their people (like shit) shouldn't be allowed to have nukes.

The Russians didn't care about stopping the arms race any more than America did, both wanted to be the top nation, that's why the space race happenned. That's why nations were building up spy networks, that's why the KGB became the corrupt intelligence agency that is now the FSB, and that is why Putin is now bringing Russia back to the cold war state.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Not with George bush running it.

Do you know how the US government is treating the 'heroes' of the Iraq war? the Injured ones are placed in rooms with mould, cockroaches, and rats, for Goodness sake. You dont call that shit?

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Remind me which is the only country that has used nuclear weapons against an enemy?

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

George Bush, contrary to popular beleif, isn't in sole controle of the United States, the congress still functions to balance power and is the reason why Bush's actions go through. Also, I haven't quite seen girls killed by the mob (masses, not the mafia) and said actions supported by the government like what happened in Iran after said girls were raped. Nor are the nation's people (by majority) starving to death as foreign aid money is given to nuclear weapons like in North Korea.

Agree with Iraq or not, it has happened, Sadam Husseign, who tortured to death 270,000 (arguably 170,000 depending on whether or not the people are viewed as "deserving" of such) people is gone, and the people are better for it. It is better to die by a bullet, than a meat grinder, or slow shock treatments, or worse yet to know that your family will die just as you are about to, in the same torturous ways.

The injurred find themselves in many situations, some in major hospitals, some in run down facilities, it's a sad situation, but it's not helped by the people at home calling them warmongers, killers, and all manners of evil things, because they do not understand war, or the cost of war, or the gifts it can bring.

We have attempted to give the Iraqis freedom, but they are now only concerned with getting revenge on "the others", or those not like them, which is the only way they can identify friend or foe. This paranoia and hatred is tearing Iraq apart, and as soon as we leave, we can expect the country either to wipe itself out, or Iran to simply come in and wipe out the Sunnis, taking control of Iraq and it's oil fields and putting them to their own use.

EDIT: Towards Rich, the United States used 2 atomic weapons on an enemy because they expected 2 million American soldier casualties, and may I remind you, soldeirs are civilians in their time off, and have families and friends and people who depend on them. We saved their lives at the unfortunate cost of civilians. Humanity was in it's first steps of mass destruction, and now everyone knows the cost. Nuclear weapons are far more powerful than anything we have ever built to actually use, and our leaders (the US president and Congress) are aware of it's power, and it's price, but the mad have no care for life so long as it is not their own.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

To get this back on track, I present this documentary: The Great Global Warming Swindle

I won't comment yet because I'm only 3/4 through it, but it's been fascinating so far. Pretty convincing stuff.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

That's a great film.

It illustrates my earlier points exactly.

If you look at the same ice core samples Gore references, they show a correlation between CO2 and temperature. But what Gore doesn't tell you is that the CO2 increases after the temperature increase, which there is about an 800 year lag.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

So if a cop shoots a man who tried to kill him, that makes him a villain?

I think your logic a bit peculiar. According to your own reasoning, your countrymen are war criminals as well, because they participated in equally destructive bombings against Germany.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

If this cop also kills the whole family of the man who tried to kill him, yes. Maybe you should reconsider your analogies.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Alright I'll respond to this post in particular however it is in regaurds to what everyone has said. Ya know I don't know if you know this but certain types of termites generate more CO2 in one year than many of our cars. The termites generate something like 25 tons of carbon emmisios each year for a single termite. Cows are the leaders in methan production so what i'm gathering from this is that not only are we harming the earth but cows and termites are also harming it. Serioulsy guys come on.


The earth goes through cycles we just came out of the "little iceage" less than 200 years ago. Temperatures were on average 3 to 4 degrees colder than they are today yet before this there was a warming period where temperatures were slightly warmer than they are today. The fact of the matter is we came out of that CYCLE which is exactly what this global warming bullshit is. I don't understand how people can hang on the words of these controversial reports about global warming when not even all the scientists agree about it, let alone the leader of green peace.


The real problem here is not global warming however; it is the right of people everywere to second guess global warming. Every day people bang and harrass the nay sayers of global warming and try to stamp their voice out when they are entitled to voice their opinion. I persoanlly don't care that many of you think its real but I do care that the people who belive in global warming acuse people who don't believe in it as being enviroment recking, burn all the coal you can, sure dump you toxic waste right into this lake, earth destroyers. Just becase you don't agree with it doesn't mean you don't want to save a tree or two. Now if you don't believe that this happens just go back and look at the first several posts and even the post above. There's a bigger picture to this entire situation and it concerns my right to dissagree and see things from a diffrent perspective.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Absolutely agree 1,000,000% Anyone who disagrees with the global warming dogma are practically considered on the same level as holocaust deniers. How dare we give disenting opinions! It's absouletely silly. Either we accept that global warming is fact, or we are neo-conservative talking heads funded by the Oil Companies and Bush's propaganda machine. Any scientist that dissents with the global warming theory is demonized. Proves that times and people don't change much, Galileo must have gone through the same thing, except the Church that we are facing is the Church of Global Warming.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

It's a real industry now. These guys depend on Global Warming Hysteria in order to make their money. It makes me so mad.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Something more to consider - it's not always mankinds deeds sometimes it really is nature.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=1319

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

It is argued that the comparative amount of sunspots signify during certain periods determine solar activity, with more sunspots meaning an increase in heat emission, and less sunspots with a decrease in heat emission. How accurate was the observation of the trends of sunspots on the sun hundreds of years ago? And if observation was as accurate then as it is now, how can extremes be explained in the climate, such as ice ages?

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

I'm just wondering hase anyone watched "the global warming swindle" off of the british channle 4? It had some nice info.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

he never mentioned the man's family he just said the man himself learn to read the analogies, not twist them.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

I don't think you'll be surprised that nearly all the scientists who gave 'evidence' against Global Warming were in fact funded by oil companies. My Physics teacher knows it and I'd imagine that anyone who looked past the flashy controversy knows it too.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/...da_seals_col_3

Poor bastards cant hunt seals because there's no ice.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Unfortunately, I took the time to watch this movie. Sure, its message sounds soothing:

"The ice is melting. The sea is rising. Hurricanes are blowing. And it's all your fault. Scared? Don't be. It's not true. "

But what do we know about the data used in this movie? Let's see...

Source: http://sanityforsale.wordpress.com/2...of-inaccuracy/
Sorry to bust your hopes, guys. I won't trust an irrelevant documentary based on fake/outdated info.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Quit joking around, please.
Already half the not-so-eternal-anymore snow on the kilimandjaro mount in africa has melted. As did over half the glaciers in the world. I have seen trees blossoming in the winter here, there is a plague of tics because there isn't enough frost to wipe them out in the winter. There is man-made global warming, that's a fact. CO2 concentration is way way way too high for it to be the natural greenhouse effect on this planet that maintains and maintained it uptil now at 15°C to have perfect conditions for life to exist on our planet.

The changing of the North Atlantic Courant. It stops warmer waters to flow to our regions which creates ice ages.
The courant will change again if too many ice melts. (The ice goes to the sea and the salt balances in the sea get jammed)

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

I was seeking an answer as to how this can be justified by the solar activity theory though.
I'm just curious to know more about this little portion of information.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Ok, if anyone wants answer to why the entire MAN MADE global warming is a myth, watch this before you come here and spout your media propaganda here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Yes, I have seen it (I have even copied it to my HD...).
Nevertheless, I still would not believe a movie based on fake/outdated information (see my post above).

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Who to believe? One side says one thing, another side says another thing. One side gives info, than the other side shows why it is false and presents it's own information, and than the first group shows why it is false. Quite frankly, neither side presents a convincing argument so for now I will continue down the "Who gives a fuck?" route.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Yes, but "Who gives a fuck?" means do what we do now and see what happens...

Maybe the Netherlands (and other countries/regions below sea level) are doomed and we cannot prevent the ultimate climate change.

But to say "Welcome to the Alps, Donutz!" is easy. Saving the Netherlands will probably cost some money, indeed.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

we'll manage, don't worry.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Who's to say it's a myth? What if it is? Does this mean that we should continue to destroy our planet because we can? I don't think so.

Myth or not, we can't be doing good things when we dump poisons in the air, water and earth. It's not just hurting the planet, but ourselves as well.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

I know that the people of the Netherlands have always been very inventive.

But much land of your country has been gained from the sea. And the sea can easily take it back if the water rises.

I live in Schleswig-Holstein, Northern Germany, and my country is quite similar to the Netherlands.
I think about buying a house. But it should be high above sea level.

If the water comes I will still have a house on an island, better than nothing...

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

By 1:09, I knew that the video was bullshit; the ice cores show that CO2 minor rises and falls have had no affect on temperatures, but today the CO2 rise is parralelled if not matched by temperature rise. The fact is, CO2 is more dense than O2, hense why it has a C in front; representing a carbon attom. For each atom, and it's atomic mass, it takes longer for such molecule to increase in vibration speed, but at the same time, it also holds that vibration longer because that extra Carbon atom keeps the other two vibrating because it's still vibrating. So it takes longer to heat up and cool down.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Indeed, that's why at the beginning the engineers that designed the draining of lakes to get land and the diking around lakes and seas were belgian.:rolleyes: :p But it is commonly known that the netherlands is a wealthy country, so they'll manage :).

I don't think that theory would go on such extreme and long lasting effects.

The original composition of our atmosphere was perfect to let enough short-wave (sunrays/warmth)radiation into the atmosphere and to reflect a certain waves like some dangerous UV radiations. Those radiations that can enter are absorbed by the earth and it warms it up, with a little help from our hot planet core. The earth then casts it out as long-wave radiation (infrared waves) which is the warmth we feel on a sunny day (no, most of the warmth we feel does not come from direct sunray, but from earth radiation). But this genius system would have been useless without a certain amount of CO2 in our atmosphere, otherwise the warmth would just ascape to space instantly. So, the CO2 holds a certain amount of the long-wave radiation inside the atmosphere (that is to escape a while later to be renewed) to keep temperatures. This whole, very vulnerable cycle keeps the earth at approximately 15°c, which is the ideal temperature for life here. And it is that which we are destroying. With the amazingly increasing amount of CO2, too much long-wave radiation is trapped inside and we get too much warming.

You have your info ;). We saw this at school for geography, and i like geography, so there's but a minor chance i have gotten something wrong or forgotten something here.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Either way, we're running out of what wonderful planet-killing materials we're using. Natural gas reserves in the North Sea are depleting and if the rest of Europe doesn't cough up money to pay for what's left, then we can kiss goodbye to gas cookers.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

Everything is all the sudden a myth these days. Brillant scientist trying to move forward by going backwards to go forward again. Write themselves into the history books.

Re: Greenhouse effect is a myth, say scientists
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070401...t_070401224357


Good thing the global crisis is just a myth. News like this might be worrisome.