Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

But most straight males are turned on by womansex, this I know.

:naughty:

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

So, that's a no then. The only thing you just said was "I think it's sick, and you can't choose to have it, so it must be a disease.". According to that logic I can claim red hair to be a disease. It looks disgusting, and you can't choose your hair color, so it must be a disease, non?

Just because it "isn't your cup of tea" to put it delicately it isn't sick perse. I might not like redheads, but that doesn't mean having red hair is sick. It's just a preference. Either way, this is probably wasted effort. You'll probably discard it with "lol penis up da bum is sick!" or something of the sort. I honestly think that's sad, but it's your own choice.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I made a point before that proves the definition of homosexuality is indeed a normal status.

Language and culture are dynamic functions of society. If the majority of society decides that a status is normal then you will see a shift in the definition of that status.

We've seen it over and over again throughout history. Races, colors and creeds all are defined by the agreement of society. With many countries already having defined homosexuality as a normal status, how long do you think it will take for the US to catch up.

You remind me of the white supremacist of the last century debating whether or not African Americans had souls.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

No, Beef is using one of the two arguments attempting to define homosexuality.

1) Homosexuality is a genetic/inborn trait that you start out with and can't control.

Since the biological purpose of all creatures is to reproduce, any trait that prevents reproduction is a disorder, since it prevents the creature from fufilling its purpose. This is the argument Beef is using, and it is quite sound - even if it is not politically correct.

Or...

2) Homosexuality is a choice.

This possibility is backed by a lot of evidence, and I personally believe it.

Modern Western countries and ancient societies like Athens and Rome have populations that are almost identical genetically. Yet the compared rates of homosexuality are radically different. So that could very well mean that your sexual appetite is determined by your personal choices and the culture you were raised in.

If this is the case, then that would disprove the argument for gay marriage - since the gays could simply marry straight and have kids normally. There are cases of this on record. A supposedly "gay" man producing kids, and then deciding he's gay and dumping his family for another man.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I've always thought that bisexuals as nothing more then indecisive homosexuals. On one had they're eager to appear traditional, yet on the other unprepared to commit to the stigmas associated with being full blow gay.

That seems like a pitiful existence..

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Actually, you are wrong.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

too bad they arn't hot dikes

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I'm totally fine if they want to call their relationships a "marrage," just don't force me to call it a marriage.

Better to get the gov't out of the marriage business completely.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Well that all depends if they're hot or hogs ;)

Actually, I'm right.

No, being a homosexual is not normal. It's far from normal.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Well, it depends what you define as normal. And I sure as hell do not think homosexuality is a disease - it is just a disorder.

Actually, do you think that homosexuality is influenced by the environment (like, if people live around a predominantly homosexual population, are they more likely to be homosexual themselves?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I don't know. What MAN in their RIGHT mind would be turned on my another man and want to have sex with him?
THAT, my friend is NOT normal.
If what you said is true then that further backs my views on gays having kids then.(oh but man that is another topic)
Have you seen the show, queer eye for the brown eye?
Do you think those fruitcakes really act like that for real or are just putting on a show?

I'll buy disorder.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Ironically, I agree almost 100% with what beef is saying.. If they want Marrigae..call it something else, the Word Marriege, is for Man and Woman.

I dont like it how Gays are always being shoved down our throats every day..at schools they have thier little alliances..On TV they have thier own TV shows, and people calling for thier support..Sometimes I get hit on by gays!!! What the fuck?? get away from me..if you wanted to be gay that WAS fine with me, but flirting/hitting on me is crossing the line. And, dont let them adopt..oratleast make it the opposite sex..

I would let them get united/joined/whatever, but only if that lesses thier growing populations :p

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

You just have to be more open-minded...accept the unnacceptabe - sort of. :D

And gay guys having kids? No.:rolleyes: All it takes is one straight guy raping a bunch of les ladies.:naughty:

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Marriage is only performed by churches. If you legalize gay marriage, then you are forcing the churches to perform something that is against their belief system. That's probably gonna infringe on their rights, and it infringes on the rights of those who consider marriage a holy union between a man and a woman.

Is that at all close to what you are trying to say, Beef?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Disorders should be treated, not encouraged. If a guy thinks he's Napoleon, you don't give him an army - you give him a therapist.

Good thing we don't treat cancer like homosexuality.

That's the idea I buy into. Since its just a choice, or a hobby, that would mean they could just go into normal marriages.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

No, if its not serious, you indulge him - give him Small Soldiers, or Imperial Guard. If it's serious, then you treat it.

And I don't mean about the sexuality thing being a conscientious decision - I meant about role models, and stuff like that. It's like how babies learn to talk - they do not just decide to talk just for the sake of it, nor do they learn some random language like German or Spanish when they're in a place like England or Tibet because they feel like it. Otherwise we'd have loads and loads of random languages like Esperanto, fused together from other completely random languages.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Hey, beef, remember, these people have their own lives. If two people, any two people, want to get 'married' to each other, they should be allowed.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

But surely, seeing that homosexuality in all forms is an abomination or a disorder or whatever you like to call it, it shouldn't depend on anything (certainly not whether or not they're hot)?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Cancer is a disease, not a disorder.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Sorry to piss on your parade, Captain Bigot, but you aren't. A disease is any abnormal condition of the body or mind that causes discomfort, dysfunction, or distress to the person affected or those in contact with the person. Not homosexuality. So shut up, and take your views back to the eighteenth century where they belong.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Ever look into the kinds of tax benefits gay people get once they're married? Yeah, it's not about love, it's mostly a scam.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Nah. There is a difference between two smoking hot females kissing compared to two hairy hung men going at it. Double standard? Maybe but that is just the way it is.
Still, I am still against the two hotties getting "married"
Unionized, sure.

While I won't shut up, I will say that I am still right.
Disease, disorder, abnormal. Pick your phrase that pays.

I am leaning towards disorder myself if that makes you feel any warmer.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Abnormality is not a crime. I'm abnormal, I have Autism. Does that make me have a disease? Didn't think so.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Bad analogy but great attempt.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

:Censored:

If God really does exist is that what he inteneded? Cause last I checked, two men can't make a child together. Why would God be happy about that?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Why would God care? Seeing what else mankind is doing to itself, why should God care if two men or two women love eachother?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

They beat you to it beef. My school has a club called the GSA(gay straight alliance). The purpouse of the club is to get people to understand gays. I don't need to understand you. Our school board won't do anything about it since we would be "infrining on their rights". PA has no laws regarding same sex unions. And when can a 15 year old know he is gay? I am so glad I have one year left in my school district then it if off to college.

Gays can have have all the rights of a legal marriage, but you can't be called married. If God dislikes it he will punuish the gays/lesbians once they are dead.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

But you have nothing against normal couples getting divorced after 2-3 years of marriage? Until death divides 'em?!?!?What makes you exaggerate it that way? As of now not even "normalness" is teached in schools.Who are you to say what is normal and what is not?

Please tell us what else you don't tolerate.



And being gay isn't only about having sex with a man...ever heard of love?

Personally, I'd rather see gays and lesbians being married for 10, 20, 30 years than seeing "normal" people, as described by beef flaps, getting divorced after 2-3 years.

I fail to see how a divorce acceptable by religion, but a (long lasting) gay marriage is not.





Since when does a marriage imply children? What if the man or the woman is infertile? Should marriage be forbidden to those people?

What does marriage "these days" have to do with the religion anyways?

If you condemn gay marriage, you must condemn divorce as well. Why not protest against divorces?

What about sex before marriage? Isn't that also something God doesn't want? Why not protest against sex before marriage?

You don't seem to believe in God, what makes you use him as an argument then?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Its none of my business if couples get divorced. If two people can't get along why should they be together?
The Church I'm sure doesn't like it but i am not the church.

As in related to this subject or just in general?



With love there is sex. There is no love without sex.
Although you can have sex without love.
Someone with common sense?
Its normal to speak with your mouth and not your butthole, right?
if someone started speaking with their butthole would you call them abnormal ( or Jim Carey)
When a man wants to "love" another man its not normal. nature or religious.
having an open mind is cool to a point but a line must be drawn somewhere.

Me to, if they are are calle a union ;)

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Because God doesn't want them to get divorced? It's either 1) not get married in the first place 2) or get along.

Fine, don't use religion as an argument then.

Why is it your business, if gay people get married?Depends really, I'm not interested if you hate chocolate milk. Simply something you don't like involving other people.Although hormones might cause "love", there can and is love without sex. :)

Being gay isn't all about SEX, SEX, SEX - just like being straight isn't about SEX, SEX, SEX either.


Drawing this line is in no way objective.As I said, marriage isn't about religion or God anymore anyways.

Until death divides you? Not really...Because God doesn't want them to get divorced. It's either 1) not get married in the first place 2) or get along.

Don't use religion as an argument then.Depends really, I'm not interested if you hate chocolate milk. Simply something you don't like involving other people.Although hormones might cause "love", there can and is love without sex. :)

Being gay isn't all about SEX, SEX, SEX - just like being straight isn't about SEX, SEX, SEX either.


Drawing this line is in no way objective.If they call it a union, are you serious?
2straight=marriage
2gay=union
marriage=union

If it really was only about the name of the relationship, we wouldn't have this argument.

As I said, marriage isn't about religion or God anymore anyways.

Until death divides you? Not really...

Even in nature you can witness gay behavior.

Anyway, you can't ban gay relationships, at least not in western society :rolleyes: , so you want to ban gay marriages?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

By the way not all sects of christian have the ideal of NOT divorcing. I dont know what these religions say, but that was the case when the british king(meh world history class, forgot the name ,was it james? or something?) Threw out Catholicism for Anglicanism so he can get a divorce.

Besides, Judaism, Islam, and other religions also call it marriage, and also allow divorcing..it isnt only christians that are against Homosexuality.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

beef flaps used undefined religion as an argument, so can I. This argument is not really about the name of the relationships, as I wrote in the post above.

It wasn't allowed for quite some time.

I highly doubt Judaism, Islam and other religions "allow" divorce. The government allows people to divorce, if any. And the bishop or imam likely doesn't look upon it with happiness.

If we weren't living in these modern times, I'm quite sure the churches or mosques would not only look upon it with hate, but also actively ban it, as they did have that much power "back then".

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Yeah thats quite True

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I'll just make my point one final time, because I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here.

But it's a disease! They're sick! They're not normal!
There is no such thing as "normal". Few people have red hair, does that make red hair a disorder? No, it doesn't. Homosexuality is the same. Plus, I would have assumed that we grew above "but they're different!" as a reason to hate someone.

But God hates gays!
Really? Did he tell you? The bible says it's a sin, however it is not mentioned in the ten commandments, which are the ground rules of christianity. However, when one of those commandments does get broken, I hear none of you complain. Sabbath? Nah. Using the lords name in vain? Nah. Adultery? All the time. This is just hypocritical.

Fine, they can "unify", but they can't marry!
Then make marriage a religious cerimony only. Do not let straight people who are "unified" by law, but not by religion call themselves "married" either. Equal rights, equal situations, same name. We should be above the appartheit by now.



So, does that mean you have sex with your parents, siblings, children and friends?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I don't see why the anti-gays don't just give up. Not only are you losing badly overall (you remind me of the Germans desperately trying to hold onto what little they had in April and May '45 when they should've given up long ago), but the debate itself, on whether or not to allow marriage between men, is like a bad re-make.

No, really: It has all the features and arguments of the old debate on inter-racial marriage: It's unnatural, against the culture the US's founded on, God hates it, the kids will be tortured in school, marriage traditionally is not inter-racial... Yadda, yadda yadda.

Same ****, new wrapping.

Oh, and the fallacies! Almost forgot:smokin: !

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

:spartan:

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Who's supporting any of these other things you've brought up, Whiteshark? You seem to be avoiding the major issue at hand.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Indeed. Make yourself useful and find an effective way to combat divorce rates. Some ideas of mine:

• Educate students on why marriages fail, statistically.
• Educate them on what marriage is, what problems arises, etc.
• Educate them on how to raise children.
• Educate them on how to solve conflicts.
• Educate them on how to divide responsibilities.
• Get a job as a marriage counsellor.

Nonsense.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

You cannot simply support punishment for murder, while not condemning adultery, if you use God as an argument, as both are part of the ten commandments.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Nope.

It's been observed and proven (oh no, those two evil words from the evolution debate:eek:!) that over 400 animals in the world engage in homosexual intercourse. While some anti-gays may argue that "they're doing it to show authority" or whatever, no one can deny that same-sex intercourse is same-sex intercourse.

As a side note, sex for pleasure is as far as we know only undertaken by humans as well. Are you against that, too, since it's so "unnatural"?

Appeal to Tradition
Appeal to Common Practice
Appeal to Popularity

Three fallacies in one post. Impressive. Most impressive.

See above.

Maybe this will make you see how ridiculous it is to apply 2000-years old mythology to today's society, though I doubt it.

Not that it matters. If Christians can pick and choose from the Bible what to believe and follow, gays can, too.

Appeal to tradition again.

Your problem, not theirs.

I'm sick of seeing hot dogs everywhere I go, do you see me tell them to go back inside their houses to eat them?

I don't find it "pathetic" to fight for the same rights as everyone else. Do you find it pathetic that people goto through inter-racial marriage, too? That us left-handed people once got this funny idea there was nothing wrong with us? That those stupid Negroes suddenly tried to get themselves viewed as intelligent beings, like us whites?

Didn't think so. Oh, and me neither:smokin:.

Hot dogs gross me out, yet you don't see me protesting when someone eat them in public. Look up "tolerance" the next time you're reading a dictionary.

Isn't it now. And just what rock have you been living under? It's getting more and more accepted every day.

Nothing new there. Same attitude reigned when inter-racial marriage was surfacing.

Exactly what they said when inter-racial marriage was allowed, when racism was proven to be idiotic, and I could go on and on.

Sorry, bigots, but the schools don't agree with you. There's this stupid liberal fad called "civil rights" afoot, and damn if it ain't growing in strenght.

Yeah, how evil of them to teach kids of tolerance and equality. How evil of them indeed.

I suppose you apply the same reasoning to teachers telling kids inter-racial marriage is normal and OK.

We aren't. Marry a man or don't. Your choice.

Homosexuality is not a disease.

Appeal to Popularity

Parody mode: "Ummm, do you actually need me to prove to you that eating meat is sick? Really?"

I have no idea where you get it from that diseases and brain disorders are "labels". I thought they were diagnoses made by proffesionals based on symptoms, not on logical assumptions such as "it's gross, so it's a disorder":confused:.

As for it not leading to reproduction and hence being a disorder, that's just downright ridiculous. Small breasts are one thing that can keep you from getting boys and having kids, norms being what they are today. I suppose you're born "genetically malformed" if you've got small breasts, then? I suppose this "error in your DNA" needs to be treated ASAP with silicone? What about this idea that you shouldn't have sex before getting married, or that prevention should be used? Clearly, as this leads to fewer children, the people who spout such views are sick?

Sorry, don't buy that.

As a left-handed person, I felt a little hurt by that statement. After all, it's not like it's normal to write with your left hand.

Then I remember that the "abnormal=wrong"-argument is just an excuse and only applied to homosexuals. I feel better now:D.

Straw Man.
No one here has cited MTV or Bravo.

Same with inter-racial marriage, I presume? Or are you specifically after homosexuals for some reason?

:lol: Good one, FancyPants. Way to go.

Oh, and to answer that: We're not talking about the "treatment" of homosexuals, we're talking about what rights to give them.

But yes, it's great that we don't treat cancer patients like homosexuals. I can picture you attacking them: "No, you can't marry that woman who's got cancer, as it'll encourage her tumor and it's not natural!"

Thanks. I needed a laugh:smokin:.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Hehe, I would have said smoking (a highly unnatural act), but hot dogs can be used too :p

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Marriage is a religious act, and it is the different churches that should be deciding if you can get married. The government shouldn't be involved at all in my opinion. No one should be getting any special rights for getting a union or marriage or whatever.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

It doesn;t really matter, i suppose, as long as they're happy. And also, there is no evolutionary need for humans' protruding nose. That means that somewhere along the evolutionary line, people with noses were 'abnormal'. However, they're not abnormal now, are they?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I never said I hated a gay person, just their acts I find sick.
You can twist it anyway you want but in the end it is NOT normal.
Comparing manlove to hair color is really reaching, pity.
Yes, its a brain disorder for a man to love another man, while its not a brain disorder to have red hair:lol:







Your arms must be sore.

There is nothing unatural about sex for pleasure between a MALE AND A FEMALE ;)
Right, another reacher comparing food to manlove. This is getting good.

You can call me all the names that you can come up with it is not going to change my views.
Homosexuality is abnormal, sick and a brain disorder.
Fact will always remain two men or two women can't make a baby. Can't twist that.
So with that said two men or two woman "loving eachother" is not normal.
It may be considered normal to the young kids growing up in the twisted world we live in today but they are far from reality.

Again, I am not against manlove just how they want to lable what we normal people call marriage.
but you read right past that every post and try to change my views. I am not trying to change yours on that, now am I?
Support it, watch it, participate in it, its all good.
I'll continue to love females.

Every straight male knows deep inside that manlove is nasty. I don't care what you try and make yourself out to look like in here. At least I am up front with it.
Now, try and stay on point with the legal topic at hand, shall we?
nahh, bashing "gay haters" is much more fun.
but remember I don't hate gays as a person so focus that towards someone else.
:beer:

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

Wait... So what was the original purpose of this thread?

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I hate you break it to you, but it is. The only reason men like women is because of the sex. That is instinct.

The pleasure is what makes us have more sex. More sex=more people. It is evolution, and natural.

People need to learn to keep stuff behind closed doors. If it does not seem to be socially acceptable, keep it in the closet;)

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

That gay couples can get hitched and have all the rights of normal straight couples but we are not fond of the word they use, which is marriage.
I want it called a Civil Union, as most people do.

Really? So you are gay? You don't think about sex? You don't see a fine looking female walking down the street and mentally undress her and make her do things to you that your current girlfriend doesn't do.. ok i'm going way off but you get the point.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

No one's born as a gay. From what I read, it's not known, but scientists are speculating it depends on the social enviroment during youth and a few other factors. It's not a brain disease..Continue to sarcastically avoid statements. ;) It's not? What makes gay sex (for pleasure) unnatural? Because there's no possibility of becoming pregnant? :rolleyes: Just like there is no to very little possibility of becoming pregnant when using birth control (which is a standard procedure, when having straight sex for pleasure)?As I said in one of my post, what if the man or the woman is infertile? Should marriages be forbidden to those?Actually you are against manlove, you call it sick, a disease, condemn it. So it's not (only) about the name of the relationship "marriage". :rolleyes:

Do you have any sources for this except your thoughts? :lol:I am. You don't seem to, as this whole debate was never really about the name of the relationship "marriage", but rather about gay relationships and gay love in general.I love sarcasm/irony. :lookaround: How can you not hate gays, if you explain that being gay is a brain disease by using pseudoscience?


What a killerphrase is that anyway? I could use that one too, just with the message I want: "Every male knows deep inside that manlove is just as normal as a man loving a woman."
See? Now that was easy, wasn't it?
I am gay?? If you say so, I shall trust your psychological analysis. :lol:

I do think about sex, but my top3 priorities in life aren't all sex. You don't seem to able to control your insticts, if you have to think about sex 24/7, unlike other men.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

You say this because you can feel for every man on earth, i assume?
Cause i for once like women for more than sex...

So what determines what's socially acceptable and what isn't? Some outdated, obsolete customs and traditions code?

That's not true at all. Most animals practise sex for pleasure as well, and many animals masturbate.

Re: Do you Jim take John to be your lawfully wedded something or other?
 

I think love encompasses more than sex because othewise, everybody would marry, have an affair, divorce, marry again, or just go and pay for whores.