This is the violent nature of this culture (that of the extremist middle-east, Islamnimity irreleveant), and it needs to end. People have said for many years, "That's there culture/country/way of life", but now people have to face the fact that this culture is reaching out to interdict freedom, whether it be of the press or of speech outside of their own nations, not that I condone or beleive we should ignore the injustices they impose on their own nations, but it's started to stretch beyond borders, beyond maps, now this culture can extend it's violent influence into other nations, so begins the IVth crusade, and nobody would have expected it's starters.
This is the violent nature of this culture (that of the extremist middle-east, Islamnimity irreleveant), and it needs to end. People have said for many years, "That's there culture/country/way of life", but now people have to face the fact that this culture is reaching out to interdict freedom, whether it be of the press or of speech outside of their own nations, not that I condone or beleive we should ignore the injustices they impose on their own nations, but it's started to stretch beyond borders, beyond maps, now this culture can extend it's violent influence into other nations, so begins the IVth crusade, and nobody would have expected it's starters.
Indeed. The middle east must be a horrible place to live; unstable governments, suicide bombings, violence, dictatorships.....not to mention the heat!
Anyways, i still think the pope could have thought about what he'd say better, considering it's the 21st century he should know better. Then again, i think history passes popes more or less unnoticed.
Why must religious nuts (both Muslim and Christian) get offended by trivial garbage? God doesn't cause conflicts, religion does...
Good point, but it's also used as a tool to gain power, i.e. extreamists and such. Here's a good quote by The Strokes. "Religion is never the problem, it's the people who use it to gian power."
It's not the religion's fault. I hate how people keep blamming acts like this on the religion. It's the politics of the region, and the people being brainwashed into thinking that. People are way too ethno-centric here sometimes.
There are over a billion Muslims in the world. The ones doing this and getting on to the news are a small percentage. Most Muslims are just at home trying to etch out a survival since their governments are very corrupt.
Why do some of you guys insist on trying to expose Islam's faults, while trying to up play how superior Christianty is in those senses. The only reason why we don't see good Christians rioting in the streets is not that their religion says anything against it, it's that the respective countries have laws to enforce against rioting. And another reason is that people are becoming more and more secular as the years go on. The Church virtually has no power anymore, whereas hundreds of years ago they practically owned Europe.
Christians used to butcher Muslims and Jews in the days of the Crusade over religion. If you questioned Christianity in some countries, you had the Inquisition all over your ass. They continued to persecute people until some got smart, and moved towards being secular. Power got put into the hands of monarchs, and more got taken away from the Church. This didn't happen because of religion, but because of human ethics. Nonetheless, when Europe began her reign of Imperialism across the world, people of other religions were persecuted.
Now the media across the world is used for one thing- to bring a sense of pride and faith in ones nation or ideal. About everytime some Muslims do something, they'll be a media story somewhere in order to further the hate.
Those guys would've killed the nun even if the pope's speech had never happened. I think you guys know this, but most of Africa has alot of warfare. They kill over resources and power, not religion. They just throw religion in there to try and gain fighters. Why do you guys make a big deal about the Nun? Why not about the thousand civilians that have had their lives cut short by civil war?
I know someone is going to mention Darfur, but that isn't over Islam, that's over Pan-Arabism. Arabian governments have been known to persecute minorities who aren't Arab, even if they are Muslim. Syria has a policy like this, Saddam did the same to Kurds and Shi'as.
If the governments of the West didn't have laws protecting minorities and people practicing other religions, there would've already been alot of dead Muslims lying around. People are deferred from murder if they know there is some sort of punishment against it. And fortunately for the Church, when a Muslim does get beat or killed, it's usually do to hate, not for Christianity. The same goes for this. It's all hate, not religion.
I don't think the Muslim response was very good. But that was mainly due to the fact the political stations there twisted the speech into making them look bad. They exploit religion for political power.
And there is no real peaceful religion, with the exception of Hinduism and Buddhism. Many religions have passages where they encourage their followers to strike down those who don't follow them. Islam has a few, but so does Christiainty.
Quote:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me. -- (Luke 19:27)
Quote:
Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. -- (Deuteronomy 12:2-3)
Yet like Islam, Christianity stresses tolerance at the same time. They set down rules like no murder or adultery, and yet some of their followers still do it.
And like Muslims, Christians try to distance those who try to use their religion as a way to justify their actions.
Quote:
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognised these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognise more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice...and if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. Hitler's Speech in Munich (12 April 1922)
Quote:
T]oday I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Ch. 2
And there are many groups that try to do the same, to use Christianity to justify their actions. And what do Christians do? They denouce them. They state the flaws in their beliefs, and condemn them. Muslims want to do the same, but doing so will usually result in getting the Terrorist group or Government pissed off, and will lead to a long stay in prision, or a bullet in their head.
I don't approve of how some of these Muslim's reacted, but then again I don't approve about how people try to generalize Islam and downplay her beliefs.
"You" think we can, but the roughly 4 billion religious people out there aren't so easy to take that chance on eternity. And what to do to the religious, strip them of their bibles, tell them there's no God, and force them to beleive what you beleive, that would unleash more war and chaos than any religon could have started.
They aren't true muslims though. The VAST majority of Muslims wouldn't do anything like that.
I really don't know what a "TRUE MUSLIM" is? They took the poll in the middle east and it was 100% that Israel should not exist. Most of those where "TRUE MUSLIMS" and not the fanatics.
Here are what "TRUE MUSLIMS" in the UK that are British Citizens think of Jews.
Quote:
Nearly two fifths (37 per cent) believe that the Jewish community in Britain is a legitimate target 'as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East'. Moreover, only 52 per cent think that the state of Israel has the right to exist, with 30 per cent disagreeing, a big minority. One in six of all Muslims questioned thinks suicide bombings can sometimes be justified in Israel, though many fewer (7 per cent) say the same about Britain. This is broadly comparable to the number justifying suicide attacks in ICM and YouGov polls of British Muslims after the July 7 attacks…
12 per cent of 18 to 24-year-old Muslims believe that suicide bombings can be justified here, and 21 per cent in Israel. A fifth of all Muslims, and a quarter of men, say suicide attacks against the military can be justified, though only 7 per cent say this about civilians.
Last edited by Jill; September 17th, 2006 at 06:47 PM.
I really don't know what a "TRUE MUSLIM" is? They took the poll in the middle east and it was 100% that Israel should not exist. Most of those where "TRUE MUSLIMS" and not the fanatics.
I've never heard of this poll.
Sure, you take a poll in Hezbollah controlled Lebanon and the Palestinian areas, they'd probably vote that out of fear.
Plus, that relates to Pan-Arabism, it has nothing to deal with Islam.
And with Iran, that's just their policy.
In the Koran, it states-
Quote:
"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"
"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."
"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."
[Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104]
Quote:
“Remember when Moses said to his people: O my people, remember the favors that God bestowed on you when he appointed apostles from among you, and made you kings and gave you what had never been given to any one in the world. Enter then, my people, the Holy Land that God has ordained for you.”- Sura 5 Verses 20 and 21
Last edited by Commissar MercZ; September 17th, 2006 at 06:51 PM.
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Re: Pope offendes muslims 
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