Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I love how the muslims reaction to the popes statement justifies what he said. :lol:

pope: islam is violent

muslim: omg you lie!

*images of muslims burning pope effigy*

muslim: death to christians! allah ackbar!

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14888444/
god damnit!! get over it!!
muslims around the world get over it and STFU!!! we get it already.
(calms down)muslims are so touchy about everything.
if the christian world was like them then the world would have been destroyed long ago but nukes. thank god these people live in poor countrys.
i have just about had it, im not even christian and i know that they take a lot more abuse from muslims yet you see nothing like this. why do muslims think they are something special and their religeon is so sacred, yet all muslim countrys for the most part are poor.
Islam has once again gone even lower in my book.
"militants vow war" - maybe the pope is right.:uhm:

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Well, you can't judge Islam by these idiots, just like you can't judge Christianity by Radicalists like the KKK or radicals like Pat Robertson or some other "Dooms-day speaker".

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

But that is just the thing. You've got hundreds of thosands, almost millions of Muslims rioting. Yes only a select view are terrorists who do any damage to humans, but Islam, in the mideast, is still far more violent then Christianity.

Now, the Muslims in the west on the other hand are often far better Muslims. I get along fine with all my neighbors, and they are all still good Muslims. It's not like they have started to go against the laws of the Quran or anything, as far as I know anyways.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

But those people are losing ground in Europe. The radical churches are far more successful than their docile competitors. The radical mosques flourish while the moderate ones die from lack of followers.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

It's true that not all muslims are violent, but why aren't we hearing outrage from the moderates over what the radicals are saying?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I know that this isn't going to happen, but what if the Pope ends up causing WWIII. :eek:

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

no one is saying most muslims are violent. but most muslims have a more extreme view of religeon than the average christian.
but damnit the ratio of terrorist to muslims is higher than ratio of terrorist to christian.
in islam the extremists seem to have most power over the countrys and thus making the whole look bad, why dount the people condem the extremists.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Since they'll meet the barrel of a Kalashnikov if they do.

Generalizing.

Pretty much the same reason very few spoke out against dictators like Stalin. You'd probably get beat down and killed. Like you said, those people have considerable influence over a country's affiars, be it the government or a terrorist group.

And there are some that do. It's just that they get no media attention.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

your generalizing.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Is he?
Was it not you who said:
?
Hey, I'll make some too.
So the religious fascists are trying to rekindle the Muhammad Cartoons rage and exploit it? Big whoopie.
This is an excellent opportunity for the extremists to remind the world, and especially their own autocrat governments, that they still hold sway over the mob. In fact, I bet we will see a few more of these blown-out-of-proportion incidents in the future.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

What you get to see on Television is bullcrap, just like whatever you see of Christians on television, fact is television is a bunch of extremes, organized and edited for our amusement, horror, sadness or happiness.
(Or Nightmares :p ).

No one should deal in extremes, anyone who does will not judge realisticly the people at the other end of the field, or even perhaps the people next to you.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Ok I wrote a very big, couple of paragraphs, but EVE Online is being Evil!! :( And the computer restarted before I saved lol...

Anyhow, I know you wont agree with this, but some might. Yes we also are in for freedom of speech, and We arent saying you shouldnt have it. But with muslims, We hold religions very deal, and we consider them sensitive things. No this isnt part of extremism, because even I a muslim who lives in the west feel so. We draw the line of freedom of speech when we see it transcending into Religious matters. We don't likt it when people make fun of religions o fanykind..we dont like it when CHRISTIANs make fun of Jesus. All we want is just some respect to our religion, which some people just think is waaayyy too hard to give. Making fun of Muslims themselves sint hurting anyone because it already happens, but the religion itself is where we like to step back. There CAN be a compromise, but it wont work if you think the whole world is gonna run as western as you think..Yes I love western culture and ideals, but osme things I dont agree with like total freedom of speech and what not..total as in when it comes to religion..

Anyhow, this isnt about him disrepecting the religion, so I dont know WHY this was brought up. This was about him quoting an emperor(or was it a pope) from the 14th century. I myself dont like it that he quoted the man. I think he should've self-critizised other religions including christianity as well. I dont know what the point of the quote was, he didnt say it to really mean it(atleast thats what I think)..

Actually alot of Arab families live more richely then you..(which is one reason I dont like Arabians, too un-islamic, dont care about Arabs or the world, all they care about is money, and by arabians I mean Saudies, Kuwaities, Qatar, etc) although some of them are good people, some of them I just really hate.

I dont whos aid it, but look at Hungary right now..Didnt somebody say that muslims rioted for stupid reasons in france....Do you call hungary's rioting right now stupid? Well not me, they both had good reason(but no no no I dont agree with rioting if it ends up killing people or burning buildings)

Because alot o fus, including me, are also angry at what the pope said..we dont agree with the rioting and some of us see no reason to condemn the rioting..I myself condemn the killing of the nun, and any loss of life. I myself dont agree with rioting if it ends up killing anyone.

your making no sense....There are more TERRORISTS(you've generalised all terrorists by terrorism not religon by the way) to muslims then christianity? duh there are less muslims than christianis, if you even say ratio of terrorists to jews its gonna be much higher..But I know what you mean, muslim terrorists to muslims, and christian terrorists to christians..As I said I dont think these people are even true followers of thier religion, because even the Qu'ran clearly condones it, and many many many muslims throughout the world issued fatwas against OBL and Terrorism.

Actually the governments pretty much dont care over there, its been done on TV and such. The governments only care if you speak out against THEM. And as I said before, some people are too angry to WANT to speak out.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

So you're saying Christianity should critize itself, and the world should act like it's perfect little angle, not being twisted for the purposes of violence and death

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

That is what rioting is. Violent protests. When you riot you are either destroying buildings or somehow damaging personal property or human life. If they just marchedpeacefully in the streets like most people do when they are angry then people wouldn't be laughing at them.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

/rant on

So you are asking me to muzzle my free speech? Screw that. Even if some jerk made an abstract painting of a fetus crapping on Mohammed's face or a porno that stars "Jesus the Penis" as the main character, he has the right to do that. No matter how offensive or morally repulsive it is, freedom allows such things to be made. Because I'm not a religious man who doesn't go to church every Sunday or pray to mecca, does that make me a heathen/infedel worthy of killing or torturing?

/rant off



That I agree with. Not much attention is centered to "God's Army" or the "Lord's Resistance Army". It's a shame.

Sensitive enough to start burning flags, dummies, and buildings? That is a pretty extreme reaction to a quote that was taken out of context. Answer me this. Why do Muslims ignore the whole point the Pope was trying to make and instead, just concentrate on the ancient quote?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I believe this is a stricken response from a less developed nation. What else are they suppose to do, contact their local representatives, and perhaps get some fall out from them? Mob mentalities are tolerated and actually the norm in many parts of the world. It’s also a human characteristic regardless of circumstance. You get a lot of people in one spot together, with one mindset on anything, and you have a potential problem.

In other parts, I have too disagree on the distinction that this extremism is worse then any other secular extremism.

These mobs are visible and identifiable for what they are. Whereas modern religious attacks occur just as frequently and probably hurt worse, with the only difference being that they happen behind closed doors of establishments and corporations in the form of deals and leeway’s. In my opinion the only differences here, are the tools for which they use. Muslims appear to be using the Sword & Fire, while other developed nations with strong secular ties use the Pen & Paper. While one is obviously more dangerous then the other in terms of immediate physical harm, the pen and paper out does it in the long run.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Yes thats exatly what im saying, self-criticise your-self first(not you, the pope or whatever other religious leader in the world needs to self criticise his own religion)

No..I didnt say that at all, why are you saying this?

Sorry guys tried my best, thats exactly what my opinion is. And we all have one, you just have to live with that the whole world dosent run the way you want it to. (not talking to anyone in specific by the way)

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I don't believe I've ever heard a Muslim Leader (National or Religious) ever "self-criticise" Islam, why should the Pope be expected to do the same when he doesnt need to? :rolleyes:

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Because these things HARDLY get through american media censorship. For Example, Muslims leaders have criticised OBL harshly. And in Al-Azhar even, the leaders have issued fatwas against terrorism etc. And as I said, our National leaders dont really count since, alot of them you guys might consider muslims, but they really are not...For example some people think saudi arabia is the cradle of islam, while they actually go around killing saudies who want democracy(Because Islamic countries are supposed to run under democracies)

I will try to find for you some instances where Muslim leaders self-criticised muslim terrorists/terrorism, etc.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

We do, but what is funner for a news show? A calm manifestation or a riot? Which one will be more popular for the 6 O'clock show?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

What religious leader would criticise his own religion? Criticizing the actions carried out by the followers is something else altogether. As -DarthMaul- mentioned, Grand Imam Tantawy of the Al-Azhar Mosque speaks out against terror. And he is by many considered one of the most important figureheads of contemporary Sunni Islam.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Because it's not in the news? It's not like journalists go into moderate muslim's houses to ask them what they think about radical muslim's reactions to what the pope said.

Do you live in Europe? No?
Well you don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea of the political climate in Europe unless you're there.
Another pointless post badmouthing Europe, though you don't know what you're talking about.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I want to visit Europe myself, and go around to visit mosques and see all this Extremism some people speak of, I dont have any idea whats going on over there, but I would like to go in ther emyself and see what happens/what they say..

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I believe you are right. I think they would risk getting murdered by fellow muslims if they "self-criticised" Islam.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

:rolleyes: How about reading the rest of the posts.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

It doesn't really matter how many peaceful followers there are - since they clearly have absolutely no control over the violent ones.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Stop posting for about a week would ya?

Well, the Pope doesnt have to speak out against terror, because Christians don't frequently blow themselves up or kill people, the things the Pope can speak out against are things like "Hypocrisy" or at best wasting Church money, little of which waste lives.

Furthermore, the KKK hate Catholics, so don't even bring them up, M'kay?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

in a way the Pope shouldn't apologize.IMO he shouldn't.I believe in freedom of speech....hence I don't make a deal out of something like an Islamic cleric saying all western men and women should die or a leader saying a country should be wiped off the map.

do you know I found the same material in four different articles on the BBC and CNN?

the media always make a huge deal about this and the illiterate Muslims whose faces are usually shown in the protests and rallies....

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

:\ How about british people sending out videos of themselves with sowrds threatning to cut off the head of everysinge muslim in the country if they dont leave? Or Nigerian christians that go out attacking muslims in mobs, or attacking mosques?

Both need to speak out against terror not one side..Ignoring non-islamic problems(terrorism) also makes muslims wonder why muslims are being targeted soo much and not the other terrorists? It dosent matter how often it is, it still happens.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I am not a Catholic, so it is not really any of my business what the Pope speaks out against. But that was not my point. I just provided an example of one Muslim cleric who spoke out against terror.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Are'nt Muslims supposed to be one of the most literate of groups?

It was my understanding that reading and writing are required so as to be able to read the Qur'an.

Since the reading the Qur'an was required Islamic areas went to great lengths to make sure followers could read the texts.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Stop saying that. I really don't think that's the case.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Actually it almost is by the way :\

Yes, the first verse was "Read" and the surah is called "Al-Qalam", the Pen(or pencil) But in some areas, lets say for example afghanistan not everyone is taught to read and write, and some times the extremists themselves teach how to read and write, and ofcourse give off a litte fundamnetalism in thier teachings. Thats not as common as before though.

I honestly couldnt catch the emphasis on why your mentioning this though heh :\

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

It is all one sided to you

I really don't see Muslims speaking out at all.

During WWII there was a group of Japanese American soldiers that enlisted and became the most decorated unit in the USA. They fought hard against Japan...their own country where their ancesters came from. You don't see that with Muslims here in the USA. They avoid the military.

You don't see Muslims talking against terrorists. I think the there is a growing trend towards the radical groups in Islam.

You honestly think we are targeting Muslims? I think it is the other way around.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I really dont know what your trying to say.

Again, re read my last post before these 2. Grand Imam El-Tantwi of Al-Azhar(one of the oldest and most prominent universities in the world, AND islamic centres) has spoken out against terrorism, an dmany muslims have..for the hundred's time, You live in a nation controlled by many people who dont let many things get through like that, or the Israeli aggressions for example.

Before I continue on..are you 100% sure about your statement? Are you VERY sure about it? Because It's time once again, for some more facts and statistics for you :D. Anyho wlets go on here..For a fact, as me being in JROTC, My SAI(Senior Army Instructor, was artillery and SpecFor/Rangers) Has HIMSELF, told me of the great times he had with MUSLIM ARABS(Yeah you heard it correctly, Muslim Arabs, in the UNITED STATES ARMY) This is coming froma Luitenant Colonel. Now let me drag out some links about muslims in the united states military:

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPentagon....20011121a.html (8 chaplains, many others are in combat, like the ones my SAI has worked with)
http://www.dawn.com/2004/10/16/int1.htm

hmm, im gonna have to go log onto my laptop, to bring the rest of the links. Although a Lt.Col's remarks, and two links should be sufficient might not be enough for you. And PLEASE next time before making an outrageous statement like that prove it.

(oh yeah and me, im not in JROTC for no reason[well actually its to get into ROTC]) EDIT: Oh yeah forgot to add, Captain James-Yee(or was it lee) was a very famous case with a muslim in the US Army)

I dont know it seems to me, that alot of things(like maybe cartoons or quotes) for example are to piss muslims off..or how america and SOME parts of europe doing things as well..

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Anotherwords Darth...you only see things from the Muslim perspective. Muslims can do no wrong. Only the USA and of course Israel and Jews can do no right.


Well let's see. There are close to 1 billion Muslims. Most of them are quiet. It is like they are afraid to speak out. If they don't speak the truth..then this whole radical extremist crap with give Islam a bad name if it hasn't already.
The only Muslim I heard about in the Army was the Sgt that fragged his surperior officers...killing a few of them. It only states that "Over 4,000 active-duty". That doesn't seem like anything when there are over 1 billion in the world and estimated 5 million Muslims in the USA. There are around 843 mosques and 165 muslims schools here in the USA. That is less that .0008 % of the American Muslim population in the USA join the Military. That is less than 100th of 1%.

Are you planning to be an officer in the U.S. Military?

You don't see the results of those "pissed off muslims"? You are blind to your faith.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

How so?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Well, ignoring the fact that not all of those 5 million are actually within the right age range to join the army and that the actual figure is 0.08%, you say there are 1 billion (assuming, as you did, all could fight) muslims in the world.... and what percentage of them are currently attacking civilians, or actively "waging war" againts "the West"? To be greater than the percentage of those in the USA Army figures would have to exceed 800,000, and I don't that's the case.

Unless you were trying to point out more Muslims join the USA army, percentage wise, that those that choose to actively fight against it, I'm not sure what your point was.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Then what is it? Are the Muslims attacking us for no reason at all?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I was referring to this comment by Emir. I dont think he intended it as a bad thing but was intending to portray how US media makes Muslims out to be.

My point was many Americans, living in our ignorant bliss, think many Muslisms are ignorant and illiterate living in tents and mud brick buildings.

The truth is that Islam requires you to be able to read and write so that you can properly recieve the teaching of the Qur'an and the Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him) so it should actually be one of the most literate groups in the world.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

umm, I never stated that, if you would like to review all my posts ffrom first I became part of the forums, I have never stated such a thing as Americans and Jews cant do right, while muslims do wrong :rolleyes: I MYSELF, have condemned terrorist attacks, and stated I am Anti-Zionist, not jewish.

And you know this for a fact? You know for a fact that many o fus muslms in the world are quiet about terrorism? What do you want us to do? WE've spoken out already, but the war in Iraq and the crisis of lebanon 2006, didnt help much at all.

Yes thats the only muslim YOU heard about, ofcourse YOU are not going to HEAR about the rest of the muslims in the army, navy ,and air force. Besides, first you say muslims totally AVOID the military, now we are only a small percentage? those are 4000 confirmed muslims, with more muslims staying without a preference. Muslims are in the military, facts right there. There is no reason to start goin around saying that .00* percent of muslim population is only in the military, we are doing it, and we dont have to get our whole families to do it. And there are MANY christians(No not christians but white americans) that speak out BADLY against the military, no need for this rgument anymore. How about you also go out find the percentage of hindus and jews?

As said by Aeroflotte, These muslims arent lashing out for no reason, that magazine was pushing a little too far, probably knowing the reactions..the Pope, as I many times said, im unsure WHAT he REALLY meant by saying it, but I dont like that he said it.

Yes, hopefully in Aviation.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

It is about twice as much as the Muslims. Muslims are one tenth of one percent and the Jews are only two tenths of one percent.

http://www.aztlan.net/jewsusarmedforces.htm

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

It was a rehtorical question, Your original statement was that:

this isnt a contest at who has more, All I did was just prove this statemet wrong, I dont even care if Jews have twice as much or christians 15 times as much as muslims in the US Military.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Are you saying that I was saying that there is no muslims in the armed forces? We both know that that statement is false due to the story of the Army Sgt that fragged his officers. I was comparing the Japanese Americans and the Muslim Americans in time of war. Both are essentual in war because Muslims can speak Arabic...etc.

Whatever the case is....we know that the Muslims that join the U.S. Military is less than one tenth of one percent.

It shows a big diffence from Muslim Americans and Japanese Americans during war.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Then why did you bring it up in the first place? :\

Now I dont know what your talking about, I dont know what you "Tried" to say but it went from no muslims to substantially less then japanese back in WWII.. BIG WHOOP? The only thing that I know is that muslims are serving thier country in the US Military, and putting country first. Numbers dont matter to me. And shouldnt matter to anyone, the only thing is that they good the job done.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I'm just trying to say that there should be more Muslims like yourself showing support for the USA. No big deal.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

TO people who deny muslims condemning terrorism, Here is a big list of "Please have a look at this".

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

So if we withdrew our troops from Iraq then the terrorists would stop bombing us?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I think it is a lose/lose situation. If we didn't invade Iraq.....it would still be the same.