Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Speak for yourself. Not all religions are brainwashing.

There is a select few Religions that actually offer peace, and spiritual guidance, etc. Take Buddhism for example.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Yes everyone, let's drop religion because we fight over it.

Let's also drop everything associated with war as well, let's stop using oil, politics, and humans in general. Because wherever there are people, they will find a reason to be pissed over something. It's in our genetics to fight, it's basic primitive instinct. We've been fighting since...well forever.

Damn Athiests.

<_<

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

The pope recited a quote from a 14th century Byzantine emperor, the Muslims took it out of context and are now angry for ignorant reasons. They didn't look at what the pope on a rope said before and after it. Smart, eh?

I don't mean ALL Muslims, but just the ones that keep taking things out of context.


Only the weak and ignorant are brainwashed by a religion (hence why extremists exist). Most, however, believe in it because they want to and it gives them information on morals/life.

Please clear that up for me. I don't know what you are saying.

Huh!?!?!? :confused:

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I believe he is condemning the morals of religion, for example, how Catholics wouldn't harm anyone, yet 100's of years ago they would burn people who they presumed to be a witch. He is pointing out the flaws in religion, which I partially agree with, but not all religions are like that.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I think the point is that the Middle East espects the people and governments of North America to say stupid shit about them..but when the pope..THE POPE says something like that..yeah..I doubt they were expecting that..of course there going to riot.

Pope John Paul II would have never said something like this..

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Yeah, which is why I love this new Pope.

Political correctness be damned, he speaks the truth.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

When the leader of one of the largest organizations on earth starts badmouthing the people of another large organization, then it gets to be too much. What the Pope said was uncalled for.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

You are really taking what I said too seriously (hence the usertitle). I know this is The Pub, but if you think I really mean that one of the most powerful men in the world should be running his mouth off like that, then perhaps you need to look at the post in a different light.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

This Pope has yet to do anything really charitable or good for anybody yet like his predicessor, and hasn't done anything about the things that got him put into that position (deal with new gay catholic sects), so regaurdless of whether or not he is less politicaly correct than his predicessor, he is a whole lot more worthless,

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Has no one but me noticed the glaring irony in the Muslems' actions? Like, that to protest the quote that stated they were a religion of violence they're burning down churches?!

Some people really can be morons.

Religion in itself is an utter failure. One man I heard define it the best: "Religion is man's attempt to bind himself to God." Man cannot do that on his own, so religion falls flat on its face. I'm talking about every organized religion, too, be it Catholicism, Islam, Judaism...it goes on and on. Jesus even preached against the mockery the Jewish Pharisees had made of religion. "They worship Me in vain, their teachings are but rules taught by men."

All God intended was to have a perfect relationship with man. Look at what we've done to that idea now. :cort:

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Oh look. The two least sensible religions on the globe are squaring up. It's like watching thirteen-year-olds throw stones at each other, standing on a thinly frozen lake. Whoever wins, secular society wins harder.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Give him some time. How "long" he has been the Pope, 1½ years?

I think Benedict XVI put his words uncarefully, but the reaction of some muslims was clearly exaggerated.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

1 and a half years in which he has done nothing, but bless Ferarris, come up with new wardrobes, and smile and wave to the crowd.

And by no means do I beleive the response by the extremist muslims appropriate.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Was what the pope said inappropriate? Perhaps, it depends on the context it was expressed in. But at the end of the day it's just words. Some people need to do some growing the heck up.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Gee...I wonder how long it will take before their first attack or bombing on a Catholic Church or the killing of innocent Catholic clergy or Catholic civilians?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Catholic civilians have already been killed by some Muslims, years ago during 9/11 plenty of Catholics died. It's not a matter of how long, it's already happened.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Oh..I didn't know that. If you noticed that I have not been on for 5 days. I was grounded from my computer and the television. It was all due to a stupid Sadie Hawkins Dance in where girls ask boys to the dance last week.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

May I ask what you did? I did not follow the rules when going to my school's SH:p. I asked a girl.

He made a bad choice for the speech. He knows the muslims are a senstive group. Quoting someone who was fighting these guys was bad. He should have quoted someone who tried to bring peace.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Making a bad choice isn't the same as being wrong or, strictly speaking, inappropriate, you can quote Hitler and use it to make a good point or you can quote Ghandi and use it to justify genocide. Needs context to say one way or the other.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Well what happened was I asked my mom if I could ask this boy and she said no. I met him at the dance anyways and dance with him and my mom found out. That is what happens when you live in small towns. My mom thought I was pulling a fast one on her and took the plug away on my computer and TV but I talked to my dad and he over-ruled my mom. :) It was only five days. It was suppose to be 2 weeks.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

:confused: where i live my parents would probley never know who i went with if i didnt tell them.
must be crappy living in a small town.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Using that analogy, it's more like the thirteen-year-old on the left say that all the kid on the right knows how to do is throw stones to solve problems. In response, the kid on the right starts throwing stones in anger. Not that I'm defending Catholicism either, but it is still incredibly ironic.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Owned.

Sorry, but however blunt and off-the-topic it is, it's true.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

So now Muslim gunmen executed a Catholic Nun in a hospital in Mogadishu apparently in response to the Pope's remarks.

Apparently these fuckers are willing to shoot a old woman in the back 4 times in response to the Pope's unintended comment.

And yet the Muslims act offended.

When was the last time Christians executed Muslims because of a comment a Muslim made.

These Sons of bitches have now killed people over this.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

They aren't true muslims though. The VAST majority of Muslims wouldn't do anything like that.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

^^ Agreed. I don't see christians getting offended by the execution of a Catholic Nun. And I don't think that other religions care what Muslim officials say why they care what Christians say. Fascinatiing huh :rolleyes:

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

yes but when was the last time a christian killed a muslim because of what 1 muslim said???
the pope says something and they kill a old peaceful fucken nun, i mean WTF its a fucken NUN, they are just there to help out.:mad:
same thing when isreal invaded lebanon a muslim goes into a jewish office and opens fire.
islam needs a serious make over and moderization
ist it funney how muslims are called violent, then they react in violent ways, burning churches, shooting a nun, rioting, marching, im just waiting till one trys to get at the pope himself.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Would you class the IRA as "true" christians? Because as far as I see it, they are no different from the "muslims" that go into post offices and open fire etc etc etc.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Calm down and watch your language please, that counts for all of you. This is supposed to be a discussion.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

The majority of Chrisitans arn't like the IRA. And the majority of Muslims arn't like the extreamists that killed the Nun. However, the majority of Muslims(in the mid-east anyways) do riot (for almost any reason, I might add)while the majority of Chrisitans just shrug it off and get on with their lives.

And the irony of the situation is ridiculous. So someone says you are violent and to prove them wrong you... riot?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

This is the violent nature of this culture (that of the extremist middle-east, Islamnimity irreleveant), and it needs to end. People have said for many years, "That's there culture/country/way of life", but now people have to face the fact that this culture is reaching out to interdict freedom, whether it be of the press or of speech outside of their own nations, not that I condone or beleive we should ignore the injustices they impose on their own nations, but it's started to stretch beyond borders, beyond maps, now this culture can extend it's violent influence into other nations, so begins the IVth crusade, and nobody would have expected it's starters.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Indeed. The middle east must be a horrible place to live; unstable governments, suicide bombings, violence, dictatorships.....not to mention the heat!

Anyways, i still think the pope could have thought about what he'd say better, considering it's the 21st century he should know better. Then again, i think history passes popes more or less unnoticed.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Good point, but it's also used as a tool to gain power, i.e. extreamists and such. Here's a good quote by The Strokes. "Religion is never the problem, it's the people who use it to gian power."

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

It's not the religion's fault. I hate how people keep blamming acts like this on the religion. It's the politics of the region, and the people being brainwashed into thinking that. People are way too ethno-centric here sometimes.

There are over a billion Muslims in the world. The ones doing this and getting on to the news are a small percentage. Most Muslims are just at home trying to etch out a survival since their governments are very corrupt.

Why do some of you guys insist on trying to expose Islam's faults, while trying to up play how superior Christianty is in those senses. The only reason why we don't see good Christians rioting in the streets is not that their religion says anything against it, it's that the respective countries have laws to enforce against rioting. And another reason is that people are becoming more and more secular as the years go on. The Church virtually has no power anymore, whereas hundreds of years ago they practically owned Europe.

Christians used to butcher Muslims and Jews in the days of the Crusade over religion. If you questioned Christianity in some countries, you had the Inquisition all over your ass. They continued to persecute people until some got smart, and moved towards being secular. Power got put into the hands of monarchs, and more got taken away from the Church. This didn't happen because of religion, but because of human ethics. Nonetheless, when Europe began her reign of Imperialism across the world, people of other religions were persecuted.

Now the media across the world is used for one thing- to bring a sense of pride and faith in ones nation or ideal. About everytime some Muslims do something, they'll be a media story somewhere in order to further the hate.

Those guys would've killed the nun even if the pope's speech had never happened. I think you guys know this, but most of Africa has alot of warfare. They kill over resources and power, not religion. They just throw religion in there to try and gain fighters. Why do you guys make a big deal about the Nun? Why not about the thousand civilians that have had their lives cut short by civil war?

I know someone is going to mention Darfur, but that isn't over Islam, that's over Pan-Arabism. Arabian governments have been known to persecute minorities who aren't Arab, even if they are Muslim. Syria has a policy like this, Saddam did the same to Kurds and Shi'as.

If the governments of the West didn't have laws protecting minorities and people practicing other religions, there would've already been alot of dead Muslims lying around. People are deferred from murder if they know there is some sort of punishment against it. And fortunately for the Church, when a Muslim does get beat or killed, it's usually do to hate, not for Christianity. The same goes for this. It's all hate, not religion.

I don't think the Muslim response was very good. But that was mainly due to the fact the political stations there twisted the speech into making them look bad. They exploit religion for political power.

And there is no real peaceful religion, with the exception of Hinduism and Buddhism. Many religions have passages where they encourage their followers to strike down those who don't follow them. Islam has a few, but so does Christiainty.

Yet like Islam, Christianity stresses tolerance at the same time. They set down rules like no murder or adultery, and yet some of their followers still do it.

And like Muslims, Christians try to distance those who try to use their religion as a way to justify their actions.

And there are many groups that try to do the same, to use Christianity to justify their actions. And what do Christians do? They denouce them. They state the flaws in their beliefs, and condemn them. Muslims want to do the same, but doing so will usually result in getting the Terrorist group or Government pissed off, and will lead to a long stay in prision, or a bullet in their head.

I don't approve of how some of these Muslim's reacted, but then again I don't approve about how people try to generalize Islam and downplay her beliefs.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

What the hell does shooting an innocent old lady respond to the comment? That's just sick and horrible.

The world would be a much better place if there were no religion's.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

And if religon turned out to be right, and religon was destroyed and the beleifs that went with it, we'd all be damned too.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

i think we can take that chance.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

"You" think we can, but the roughly 4 billion religious people out there aren't so easy to take that chance on eternity. And what to do to the religious, strip them of their bibles, tell them there's no God, and force them to beleive what you beleive, that would unleash more war and chaos than any religon could have started.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I really don't know what a "TRUE MUSLIM" is? They took the poll in the middle east and it was 100% that Israel should not exist. Most of those where "TRUE MUSLIMS" and not the fanatics.

Here are what "TRUE MUSLIMS" in the UK that are British Citizens think of Jews.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I've never heard of this poll.

Sure, you take a poll in Hezbollah controlled Lebanon and the Palestinian areas, they'd probably vote that out of fear.

Plus, that relates to Pan-Arabism, it has nothing to deal with Islam.

And with Iran, that's just their policy.

In the Koran, it states-

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

You've got to admit the Irony of this.

These muslims are killing innocent people, because the Pope quoted a man who (basicly) accused them of doing the very thing for which they responded with.

It really goes to show that these people are simpletons who can not deal with problems via simple words, they can't "Deal with it" like Christians or any other religion can, as soon as they feel threatened they reach for they're guns, axes, explosives and anything else they can try and make the "enemy" stop talking about them in a honest light with.

Not to say all Muslims are evil, or anything like that, I know some Muslims, and they arent all going to shoot some nuns because Mr. Pope quoted some 14th Century Crusader, but for the love of God what is wrong with these people that do?

Where did their country go wrong, Americans don't do that, Brit's don't do that, Germans don't do that, are they raised to believe Violence solves all problems? are they that stupid?

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

As if there isnt enough violence Al Qaeda and the Mujahadeen Shura Council has declared Holy War on The Vatican, and Christianity in general.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Papacy_and_the_Vatican

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060918/...muslims_pope_5

And there you have it folks, that is why Muslims and Christians will never get along.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Well..this is not gonna end. Everyone needs to wake up an realise we are in a war. These so called radical muslims are growing within the Muslim population. It is not getting smaller. The faster we realise what is happening in this world and WAKE THE HELL UP...the better we will be prepared for this war that is right before us.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I find alot of thibgs here WAAAYY out of line..just to point a few things out. I dont agree with the somalies have killed the old lady. but I DO agree with the mass protesting, and to some extent riots..it falls under freedom of speech/expression.

Now, I also think the Pope needs to SEL-CRITICISE Christianity's own down faults before criticising other religions. If he were to view the worl back at the time of that emperor he quoted, he would see a very technologically advanced and peaceful nation to the east, while to the west amassive continent ruled by catholics persecuting non CATHOLICS, and despair, and VIOLENCE, and many other things.

Alot of you also claim that alot of christians that riot and what not ARE NOT CHRISTIANS..what the fuck, first you keep shoving down my throat that OBL is a muslim, and I cant say that he isnt, while you go around picking happy, tree hugging peaceful christians and call THEM christians..Why dont the KKK and other fundamentalists count as christians? Out of my own opinion I ironiclly agree with you that alot of christian extremists and terrorists arent true christians..why? because I myself am telling you that OBL and other muslim extremists and terrorists are not true muslims..now shut it about all the generalisations.

Alot of muslim scholars and leader have said "We do not agree with what the pope has said or that his supporters agree with him" The POPE and his SUPPORTERS. Because frankly christians and muslims live as brothers in the middle east. And Proof enough, alot of my father's family living in the same house hold as them, an dhaving many friends, and me myself having christian friends over there. Even some of egypt's top coptic leaders have condemned what the pope said and disagreed with him.

And about taking things out of context? Please tell me what he meant, becasue honestly I myself dont know what he meant, thats why when he said so, I just didnt think much of it, till I read about the protestings. You say we muslims take thigs out of context? look at athiests and catholics trying to "read" and "explain" the qu'ran when taking out parts of it that they like(to thier own agenda like, going to war, etc.) and leaving the many vast pages in the rest of the qu'ran about peace and democracy, and way of life.

ayotallah has said this is preaching for a holy war..http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5356820.stm just read it..and frankly he makes a good point(although I dont agree with the crusade crap..what are muslims over there supposed to think when the pictures of muhammed came out, followed by this statement? This is a VAST religion, and its on of the biggest in the world(prolly second biggest) and fastest growing...your supposed to bad mouth about this religion and not expect something in return? please..

edit: one more thing..stop acting like muslims are the only people in the world that have the feeling/dong of hate. Everyone is guily of it, christians and jws as mucha s muslims, Jews can hate Muslims as much as the opposite, and same goes for christians.


Read my whole post carefully, dont read one paragraph and come int a rageful come back without reading my own commenting.


Realise that the common population of muslims and christians get along very well, alot of this is politics by the big leaders. which in turn inflame the common man.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Okay... I'd be surprised if you did. No, riots just because the pope expressed free speech by quoting a verse hundreds of years old is just a useless waste of time, effort space and use.

That is optional, it just depends if he wants Christianity to come out honestly, or powerfully. Were there really that many non-catholics in the west back then? other than that your post is true.

No, Christians riot, but not over simple words as these people do. Erm'kay. So, right, when have Tree-hugging and Christians ever gone in the same sentance? To some extent, they do, Jesus died for them too, if they believe it, good for them. Fair enough, any group of people has its misfits.

Thats because all Christians aren't people who want to start wars with the misfits of other religions just because some guy in a white robe said so, we aren't stupid.

Okay, let me sum it up for you, the Pope said "Muslims are evil, wrong, stupid, ugly, French and any other horrible thing I can think of".
Clear?
True, and the sad part is Christians in the U.S. trust these people, and they go on thinking the Qu'ran is full of hatefull evil, and even worse is they will not believe me when I tell them otherwise, they keep thinking I'm trying to convert them or something silly like that.

They are supposed to ignore it like the other religions do when they get picked on.
Ya.
Ya.
I'm sorry, but who do you mean "Your", you talk about generalizations, we are not all the freaking Pope, we want to go off and live our lives, not start fights with Muslims just for the hell of it.

Perhaps, but only the misfits.



I read it carefully, and quote individualy, and yes, I do realize Muslims and Christians get along well, its not like I watch Fox News 24/7 :p .

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

^One of the best replies :P its unbiased. Anyhow, by your, im speaking to the pope, not the rest of the christians.

But thats just it..its putting a bad message and view of christians abroad to the muslim world.

And thanks for that, it was just a message towards people who only pick out certain things from my post that they CAN rebuttle, and leave the rest of the stronger points.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Oh good grief....Why are the Muslims act the very worst about being offended, acting indignant and demanding apologies over the slightest comment by the Pope. The actions that followed what the Pope said is exactly what the Pope said. Killing people, burning churches..etc. I can't understand it. Why are they demanding apologies for simply stating the truth about this Ji-had stuff?

It is a double standard. Above Darth talks about the freedom to riot, speach...etc, as long as it is not against Muslims. Most Western governments tend to tip-toe around the issue of this fundamentalist bullshit for obvious reasons. We really have to wake up here. It will only get worse.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

I still dont see the point of why you dont want to get along with someone just becasue they dont want to take your bullshitting..Just plainly get along with the rest of the muslim populace, show respect by not offending, and ats ALL thats needed....Its not really a bad thing if they have one religion not to bad mouth about/make fun of/cartoons/whatevers, the whole world dosent live under western rules/politics.

Because as it shows you know nothing. It isnt about jihad "stuff" its about him saying that Islam nd Mouhamaed were/are evil that gave nothing to the world. While he didnt self-criticise christianity at the same time..and as I sai dlook at both cultures/religion atthe time period of that quote..that is self-explanitory of why it inflames many. you have NO Idea of what Jihad even means do you.

Killing people? Burning churches? :S Everyone kills, all people(regardless of religions kill) But how about christian africans burning mosques or going around in mobs beating up muslims, etc? Yes muslims attack them back probably just as harshly, but still just shows that others do it as well..Nigeria anyone.

LOL, Even us arab muslims in the middle east are fighting fundamentalism in our own countries. And its the common man that is doing it too, because Ironically alot of governments over there are the bitches of the west, and persecute muslims.(For example muslim brotherhood in egypt, or Muslim Democratic Revolutionists in Saudi arabia)


Sure you can "Tip-Toe" around fundamentalism..Just forget the christian and jewish extremists and lets focus on the muslims..because only persecuting muslim extremism will put the world at peace..(although all 3 need to be persecuted at once, because one wont calm down while the other rages thats just plain fact)

Besides, I wonder if Anti-Semitism laws in Europe and the USA were retracted how much jews would care if people start posting shit about jews too.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

Towards Darth Maul

1. In this world, there is a thing known as freedom of speech, just because muslims don't like something, doesn't mean the world has to walk on glass because of it, banning free speech against the muslim world lest it piss off the wrong people. The muslim world cannot be allowed to control the rest of the world in this way, and it won't, if anything things like this will simply drive people further to badmouth Islam.

2. He was quoting a 14th century Pope, and it seems to well reflect the extremists nations and how they have twisted Muhammed's word. And no matter what is said, it does not excuse the burning of churches, which is the destruction of property, mass rioting, violence against civilians... or anyone for that matter. It's just something someone said, it's just something someone wrote, if you cannot deal with that, then that is your problem, not ours. No one has stripped you of your religon, no one has attacked you, someone said something about that religon, and to prove him wrong, the masses of the middle east rise up in arms and riot through the streets. Two terrorist groups have declared holy wars and a nun has been shot along with her body guard.

3. Everyone kills? I haven't killed, I know alot of people who haven't killed anybody lately, and I don't really know anybody I think would kill over something this stupid, and the thing is, over in the middle east, unlike here, they get away with it, no... wait, it's not even that, they get crowds praising them and parading through the streets with the governments full approval. When murder, and that is just what this, as well as several prior incidents (see the raped Iranian girls, the seven Saudi girls killed for not having head scarfs, the slow painful deaths of starvation given to those who steal in Saudi Arabia the various other incidents) are, murders of innocents, is allowed... no, endorsed to go on, by the state and by the people there is a problem, infact, it's not just a problem it's an attrocity; an attrocity that people have used Islam to comit and thus have defiled it, using Muhammed's teachings to cause violence.

4. This isn't a culture, this isn't a civilization, this is a madhouse where the maddest is king and blood is used to mop the floors. You are blinded by the blood that you've covered your eyes with, the anger that fills your soul, you have been misguided and manipulated.

5. Anti-Semitism Laws? Contrary to the beleif of the stupid and ignorant, you don't get locked up for making fun of the Jewish, infact they are made fun of quite alot, and often by them selves, because they can laugh at themselves, a quality that would better the middle east's muslims. They are stereotyped, they are mocked, and they can keep on going without killing anybody.

6. Don't bring up the crusaders, the muslims were the better people then, however now, the middle east is still where it was then if not far behind, just with cars, guns, and bombs and seeving hatred in every nook and corner. The world of the extremists is still in the dark ages while the rest of the world has gotten past the rediculums of that era.

Re: Pope offendes muslims
 

The only reason the world cares about the Middle East is because terrorism from those parts tend to bring about a bunch more desturction than say.. Terrorism from the National Animal Liberation Front. :D

If 9/11 and a couple other "booms" hadnt happend, we would probably be focusing on some other "enemy" right now, to keep Americans occupied.