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fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Quote:
racial profiling is okay IMO but harming and terrorizing innocent people is not.In fact this will lead to disintegration of western societies . you can't go to someone ,beat him up,treat him like a dog and then tell him to respect you and to accept your values. bash me for opening this thread.I don't care.I just to know you from you people whether such methods should be continued or countries of western authorities should come up with news methods of preventing terrorism. as I type Danish authorities have arrested 9 people for alleged plans to commit terrorism. BTW,what happened to those Canadian terrorist suspects?sent to jail ? |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Not sure what happened to those Johnny Canucks, probably in jail right now waiting to be tried. Yeah, it sucks. But guess what, with the exception of one psychopathic hick, every major terrorist act comitted against the United States has been done so by an arab muslim. It simply makes no sense to check nine year old white kids, or 75 year old asian grandmothers. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Racial Profiling is okay you say? Wasn't it innocent until proven guilty, not probably guilty but he might be innocent? |
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At any rate this has nothing to do with being inoccent until being proven guilty it has to do with who poses the greatest risk. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? No, Capt Amerika is right in that "innocent until proven guilty". Of course, many terrorist suspects don't receive trials, so they are guilty without proof. Perfect example is that of the "Tipton Three" who were held for nearly three years at Guantanamo Bay without charge or trial, or access to a lawyer. And then released as they were innocent. |
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Yeah, and I'm sure you'd love being strip searched because of the colour of your skin too. |
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And remember this. If you are about to fly a plane into a building or blow a plane up you will likely be a little nervous, and people will be able to see that. So it's not like they are looking closely at all Muslims. They are looking closely at young, single male Muslims who look a bit shakey or nervous. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Once maybe. But if it happened twice. You get checked before you get on the plane, after you get off, perhaps on your way home. And it will be race, as it can be hard to tell someone's religion by just looking at them in most cases. Quote:
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? I think we need to get better people in charge of security. Perhaps set up a training program with El Al(that is the name of Israel's airlines, right?), so that the TSA knows who to look for. People acting odd, or nervous, or young males traveling alone, with a one-way ticket. Stuff like that. |
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Do you think we should do that with all Arab-Americans, or American-Muslims? |
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It would be illegal to put them in jail and such, but not illegal to hold them under special suspicion. The Japanese relocation camps (concentration camps are where people are systematically killed, get your facts straight) were the result of public outcry, not the acts of a responsible government. Of course that was stupid and not necessary, and we aren't doing that today either, nor will we. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Hold them for how long? A day, a week, three years? Withhold legal rights? And I assume also that they would be held in a hotel whilst not at home? A concentration camp is one where a lot of people are concentrated in(to) a camp. Hence the name concentration camp. A camp where people are systimatically killed would be an extermination camp, or death camp. |
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But you're exagerating, we don't generally beat people up accused of this sort of thing and then let them go. (Apart from that regretable mistake where someone was shot as their house was raided of course, but that was an accident.) Quote:
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? If you are serious about fighting terrorists..than racial profiling is necessary. If you want to waste your time searching grandmothers and little kids...then you are not serious about the war on terror. I don't think the TSA is serious about looking for terrorists. Just last week the TSA went after two Texas Border Patrol Agents that fired at an illegal alien bad guy trying to smuggle drugs into this country. Those two agents were found guilty of violating this bad guys civil rights when he tried to sneek into this country with a van filled with drugs. They have been found guilty and will serve 20 years in prison. Ironic huh? That is our TSA for ya. They try to be politcally correct and it will bite us in the ass eventually. http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...4058-4549r.htm Truly amazing. I can't believe the TSA. Our country is in serious trouble. |
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The only Arab attack on U.S. soil was 9/11. So are you advocating racial profiling and discrimination ONLY against arabs? I don't think you are, but clear out what it is you wanted to say. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Just because the attack was not on US soil does not mean that it was not comitted against the US. The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing was against the US. The Cole bombing in 2000 was against the US. The 1993 World Trade Center bombing was against the US (and on our soil). The list goes on. What I'm saying is that as unfortunate as profiling may be, to follow it is common sense. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? like I said racial profiling is okay but sending an innocent guy to Gitmo is not. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? They're at Guantanamo Bay to figure out if they are guilty or not. The problem is that we never had a system set up to try people held as terrorists, which we are paying the consequences for right now. |
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Every Arab or Muslim isn't targetting civilians, just a few, you're typing like you blame all arabs for 9/11, perhaps not actively or conciously. |
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Well, not every, but a large majority. |
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? And the few European converts who were sidetracked from mainstream Islam and decided to try their hand at "martyrdom" |
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? It was in refference to Jill's post I support racial profiling, but not wrongful imprisonment, and it shouldn't be expected to happen without any accounting for it |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Quote:
Timothy McVeigh, Paul Hill, and all the other abortion doctor shootings and bombings. And Richard Reich was white. You know, the shoe-bomber? Quote:
And yes, do some random checks on children and elderly, too. An elderly couple was busted for smuggling narcotics at a Norse airport some years ago. Quote:
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UN Declaration of human rights: Article 5.
I'm curious (and for some reason people never answer me) as to why you people don't apply the same standards to suspected rapists and murderers. 11 000 people are killed in the US alone from guns alone. Why the trials for someone who kill so many more people than the terrorists? Oh, no, wait, let me guess: They're not Arabs. Quote:
Death camps were where the killings occured systematically. Concentration camps are where governments bring Jews, homosexuals, Asians, and other people prone to do evil deeds[/some irony]. Quote:
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They capture people for being in certain mosques, for driving their taxi past certain buildings, and what the Heck have you. Quote:
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Keeping your guard up is one thing, but overreacting and acting upon anyting that isn't "common" us just as bad. It creates a state of constant fear and danger and that is just ad bad if not worse. A state of constant fear is a victory to the terrorists. |
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? I really don't see any evidence of this "conspiracy". Seems us white guys get picked out as potential "terrorists" than anyone else. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Well, it probably helps the public image of the TSA if the random searches have it not appear as though they are searching more Arabs or Muslims than what might be considered proper. So, they might search 5 Arabs or Muslims, then search 95 others, in order to make it appear like they are not singling out any religious or ethnic group. |
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So where exactly is this "racism" we seem to be talking about here? Because I sure as heck don't see any. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Quote:
The IRA targets civilians The Tamil Tigers targets civilians The FLQ targets civilians The Ulster Loyalists targets civilians The list goes on... And then there are Christian terrorist organizations that target civilians, like The Army of God, God's Army, the KKK, Lord's Resistance Army (recently disbanded, but killed 12,000 + civilians and forced 2 million from their homes. These guys are much more effective than Al Quaeda!), and more. It's pure ignorance that people think the only "terrorists" are Muslim. In this way, some groups are mislabeled terrorists (such as Hezbollah). And Buddy Jesus, think not 2,600 U.S. deaths, but the 40,000+ Iraqis. And, does that mean you're saying that we should combat crime in the U.S., or that the Iraq war is actually no big deal? |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Uh, Hezbollah is called a terrorist group because it targets civilian centers. Even if it did not start out with that goal, using that method would make it a terrorist group, by your definition. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? You all dont know this but this actually creates alot of hate in turn from the targeting of innocent muslims or arabs randobly at air ports..What do you think these arabs and muslims do when this happens to them and they get back home? Thier family calls up, why are you late? They held me up on suspicion..its because I am Arab or Muslim. Family gets a little pissed and calls the rest of the family back at arabia, then they all hear about how racist they are in the west, and how they hold up people on basis of religion or ethnicity. Then people get angrier and UNDERSTAND why people hate the west.. Your little racial profiling is gonna actually hurt you over time trust me. I can understand your fears. But the rest of arabs and muslims cant really do jack-shit about it. We have our own problems. Alot of us want a Democracy, and alot of us live in constant poverty(Well not all) and hostility, and racial profiling from our own governments(atleast the muslims in egypt that want a democracy) We want to get rid of our dictatorial leaders..And ironically we want to do it ourselves without outside help. when we stabelise our region, I trust "Islamic"(or muslim wanna bes) terrorism will decline sharply, because even we wont sit for it. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? It's unfair imo, but if they want to do it, they can do it. Unfortunately, for everytime I go to the airport, we're usually pulled to the side due to my father's name or our country of origin, being Iraq on his American passport. But I've got nothing to hide, honestly. It's a nuiscance, but there's really nothing we can do. Every country needs some minority to blame their problems on. Blacks, Mexicans, European Immigrants to America, Jews, Slavs. Muslims have been chosen for most of the West now. I mean, most of the Terrorists are usually from the Arabs from the Arabian peninsula, and you can tell when they're going to do something big. Middle-Easterners really, in all honestly, want to have a better life. They wouldn't mind westernization, it's just that the numerous Sheiks, Amirs, mullahs, and royalty do not want to give up the power they have, and make sure that much of their people will never get an opportunity at education. There is no real democracy in the Middle-East. The Turks say they have a "Democratic" nation, but it is usually under the influence of the Military and anti-minority sentinments. Most of the Middle-East are just people trying to find a way to get better. Turks are trying to modernize their economy, Iranians were doing the same until the Revolution, some nations in the Arabian Peninsula, and maybe Egypt to an extent. Kurds in Northern Iraq (Far more stable than the rest of the region) have been building up their infrastructure, and have created a nice little economy. They have offices in Qatar now, and contractors are looking for ways to take their projects there. But in all fairness, I've seen a couple of regular people get pulled over for checks. It's not too intrusive, they mainly throw the bags through a scanner, and I'm usually out by 5 minutes or so. They're usually pretty nice to us; they don't give us bad glares or glances. I just feel it's unfair fo r some ignorant people to justify scanning people of "questionable" origin due to those nutty mullahs and extremists they dig up on the media. |
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Afterburner, what about the Israelis returning. Isn't that a decent reason to stay ready? |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? The Israelis returned because Hezbollah felt like continuing their fight, after the Israelis left the battle. So, Hezbollah kinda brought the most recent invasion on themselves. |
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Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? Sad, but true. In fact this thread is about that ;). Go talk to Hassan Nasarayllah about what Hizbollah should have done, not me. But, had Hizbollah disbanded in 2000, what would be there to stop the Israelis attacking again? |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? There would be no need for Israel to secure their borders and cities from attack, so they would not attack. Tada, the Israelis don't attack again! I am guessing that Israel dos not like having to attack its neighbors. I mean, it'd suck if the USA had to constantly fight Canada or Mexico, and it did suck when Germany constantly attacked France and Eastern Europe. I know, an exaggeration. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? yes.I started this thread about how you would treat terrorist suspects.It looks like most of them have been detained for no reason. can anyone tell me how many people have been detained after the 9/11 incident? |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? There were 505 in Guantanamo Bay as of November 7th, 2005. On November 5, 2001, the Department of Justice announced that it had placed 1,182 people into secret custody since September 11th. (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0803-02.htm) I don't think there are any complete figures out there, given the secretive nature of it, the time frame, and the cross-nation involvements. |
Re: fighting terrorism or Witch-hunts in mid air? you see ... there is actually no "war on terrorism" ... because a war is defined by something like, when 2 armies are fighting ... i think right now we can all agree on that point ... so what we have here, u can't even describe as a war in any kind of term ... you got america & uk on one side and a few thousand hardcore-facists on the other side ... that's no war ... that's called gambling ... they are trying to eliminate bin-laden now for 5 years ... and even so, being dead he would only live up to be a hero for his followers ... and as said in the article above ... they are already winning ... because their greatest goal has nearly been achieved ... people are scared to death ... of just about anything that's somehow alien to them ... and about that flying thing ... you'd be just surprised to see how suspicious people look at you sometimes even if you're not dark-skinned ... i for my part am pale-white, average tall, nothing special ... saying terrorist or so ..... so i flew to NY with a couple of friends this summer ... and we're all mixed up a bit, mostly russian+serbian ... you'd be quite surprised how many people started to feel uncomfortable when we began babbling in serbian ... as if we've already taken over the plane ...! thank god, they didn't offload us aswell ... but things are surely getting worse and worse ... especially america ... :uhm: :uhm: :uhm: |
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