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The WAR is for REAL

Quote:

This WAR is for REAL!
Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired

Tuesday, July 12, 2005

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who
realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001.
The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World?
25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the
dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were
eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).
(see http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm)

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else.
The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions:

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us
dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else?

The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose,
and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some
Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world.
Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that include the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our "leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!

Got that in one of those conveniently forwarded emails..... I agree with it completely, when you get down to the basics that's what they're after and need to be stopped..... we need to do to Iraq what we did to Japan after WWII by showing them their religion is bad....

Re: The WAR is for REAL

Well it's a well thought out article but there's some things I don't like about it. For instance near the beginning of the article he writes "Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide." He's saying this like if all of these terrorist attacks are aimed at the US. The fact of the matter is the VAST majority of those 7,581 would of not been aimed at harming America. This is another case of the "world police" thing of which is quite disturbing since the dude who wrote it has very good credentials. http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5000.

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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He's saying this like if all of these terrorist attacks are aimed at the US. The fact of the matter is the VAST majority of those 7,581 would of not been aimed at harming America.

In the latter part, he explains how these attacks are aimed at the free world, not just free America.....

Re: The WAR is for REAL

He only says right at the end that if we do want he wants to do (he doesn't even clarify that!) then it wil benefit the 'free world.'

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Trying to get rid of Islam will simply throw nitroglycerin on the fire. Reeducation will be seen as attempting to destroy the very culture of the middle east and would not be accepted. Try to get rid of religion will do nothing, but spark absolute hatred against the West and will be seen as a real new Crusade. As to the rest of the article, it's right for the most part about political correctness, but doesn't take into account the negative results of religious and racial profiling, those negative effects being hate groups, harassment and later sympathy for arabs despite any of their actions.

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I agree with most of the first half, but at the end he talks as if the Muslim religion is a giant hidden conspiracy.

Yes France has a lot of muslims in it, but it isnt because of some conspiracy, but because it colonized much of N. Africa, which was muslim. The French culture was adopted there, so France is a destination for them. Same is true with Indians and England.

It isnt muslims and political correctness that should be "fought". What should be done is the fight for the preservation of and guarentee of civil rights and liberties to all people, which no sides of the conflict seem to have in mind.

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Damn so we are going to be racially profiled soon? shit man.. what a mean world I live in me, and my family, and the rest of the muslim community..shit I think all muslims should immediatly leave europe and the US, ecspecially all the doctors, scientists, and professors, because we are a big burden on the world, and do nothing good to it.

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I like the post. It highlights the fact that we, Western Civilization, is at war with a group that wants to kill us. We did not want to kill the Muslims. These fundamentalist will not stop till we step on their heads as we do roaches. Seriously if people think we can rationalize with these Islamic radicals then we are screwed. You can't discuss anything with a religion that will butcher fellow humans or have women and children as shields to protect themselves. They are cowards and weaklings. Israel and the US need to attack Iran and Syria while we have the upper hand and eradicate these fanatics.

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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Originally Posted by ekcoho

They are cowards and weaklings. Israel and the US need to attack Iran and Syria while we have the upper hand and eradicate these fanatics.

That is the exact opposite thing we should do. We should support dissedent civil disobedience groups in those countries that support freedom and civil rights. Eradication is not acceptable as the people in these nations are more misinformed than everyone else in the world.

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Except he isn't saying that all Muslims are bad. He said just the opposite. The extreamist Muslims are effectively controling the rest of the Muslims(at least in the middle east) even if they don't particularly agree with them. All you really need to do to control someone is wait for something bad ot happen to them and then find a scape goat. So what is the bad thing happening currently? The Isreali attacks(which were caused by Hezbollah). and who is the scapegoat? Everyone that disagrees with these extreamists.

Everybody is too scared to stand up to these extreamist Muslims. Nobody but a few have the balls to stand up to them.
I agree with Napalms statement. If we suddenly invade Syria and Iran we will get more terrorists on our hands. If I recall correctly there are large, albeit inactive, "resistance" groups in both Syria and Iran. What we need to do is support those people until they can throw an internal revolution.

It should also be pointed out that pretty much every arab country besides Iran and Syria has condemmend Hezbollah's recent actions, including Egypt(the birth place of extreamist Muslims), Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirants, and Iraq. So no, not all arabs, and not all Muslims are bad people. I can't stress this enough. I, and most other people I've talked to, do NOT believe that all muslims or all arab are bad.

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I think the post is straight forward and true. It doesn't follow the "political correctness" crowd,

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That remembers me about anti-jewish Nazi propaganda...

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Originally Posted by Nostradamouse

That remembers me about anti-jewish Nazi propaganda...

Do you think it is pure propaganda and has no truth in it? Or many half truths to confuse the people that read it? Spreading hate for the Muslims or Arabs?

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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Originally Posted by Jill

Do you think it is pure propaganda and has no truth in it? Or many half truths to confuse the people that read it? Spreading hate for the Muslims or Arabs?

Lots of half truth in it. Some examples are taken off-context.

(Aka France having 20% muslims)

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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Israel and the US need to attack Iran and Syria while we have the upper hand and eradicate these fanatics.

I dont see how suddenly two countries, Syria and Iran are suddenly fanatics :\

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We did not want to kill the Muslims.

I guess it was the evil empire with its storm troopers that came in crusading the middle east and slaughtering many jews and muslims, eh?

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Originally Posted by Nostradamouse

That remembers me about anti-jewish Nazi propaganda...

BS, if you acually read the whole thing you would have noticed that he said he doesn't blame all Muslims and that Muslims art good people, they are simply being threatend by the extreamist muslims. His point in the first part of the bold text is that Muslims are good, extreamist Muslims are bad. The same way the Nazis or the crusaders were bad, because they were extreamist Christians.

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Well I realised it's a strange equation: The US are bending over backwards for Muslim countries as it just so happens that they have the world's largest supply of oil. Then this oil is being used to fuel these conflicts with the Muslims. Then, we have the US (and Britain) supplying arms to a country of whom a large number of people in the US now wants to attack. Too confusing = bedtime.

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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Originally Posted by <StG>Nighthawk

Yet he pulls out something like : OMFG 20% of ze Frenchies are Muslims, zey are so screwed!

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The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!

Eh.

What he suggests is no less than concentration camps, the same in which we held japanese, italians and germans captive during the war.

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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Originally Posted by Nostradamouse

Eh.

I had the same reaction. He's writing as if he's playing a board game.

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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Originally Posted by Nostradamouse

Yet he pulls out something like : OMFG 20% of ze Frenchies are Muslims, zey are so screwed!

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Eh.

he he, I acually kinda laughed at that part too. He is quite mistaken with that point. But the basic idea behind the whole is this.

"Extreamist Muslims are bad and need to be eradicated one way or another(either killed or educated) , other Muslims are good people who have just gotten in these extreamist Muslims's way."

Note: I underlined extreamist to emphasize the point that it is ONLY the extreamist Muslims which are bad.

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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Originally Posted by Chemix2

Well the issue is Islamic fanatics educated these people into what they are today. Sad that the Saudis used all those profits from oil to spread this fanatical belief. What is really scary is that this not 1 group of fanatics. There are mulitple Islamic fanatics we have to deal with. What do you do with a sexual predator? You can't reprogram them..it is embedded in them! That is why I think we have to take a course of action that sucks, but it will benefit not only Israel, USA, and other Western Nations, but it will help the Muslim community. Islam is hated because very few stood up to say what these terrrorist were doing was wrong. Because of that they gave the impression they condoned these actions. Having Iran and Syria beaten to a pulp will perhaps have an effect that the people will question their government. We already know that in Iran there is a earthquake about to happen between the people and those that rule.

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How will more killings and death bring understanding? Is that the solution to everything: "juz kill it". And what is to say that everyone will go along with the beating of Iran and Syria to a pulp?

It is obvious that wiping the walls with the civilians of a nation is not the best way to have peace and liberty.

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Uh guys, I still dont see where Syria comes into play with terrorism..hell does that mean if Egypt allies with Iran and Syria then suddenly all egyptians are terrorist too, in a terrorist nation? OR even Libya, or any other arab nation?

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Syria supports groups that are labeled as terrorist groups by the US:

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The Syrian Government continued to provide political and material support to both Hizballah and Palestinian terrorist groups. HAMAS, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PLFP), and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC), among others, base their external leadership in Damascus.

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2005/64337.htm

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What a load of bullshit.

Muslim terrorism is so overrated. How often do terrorist strikes acutally happen? There were only 12 major attacks since 1979 according to your article. Is that enough to be worried about it? You have a bigger chance of dieing from toilets (see True but sad facts thread)! I for one am not at all worried about terrorist attacks. It's simply not frequent enough to worry about. The thing I do worry about though is the governments around the world making such a big deal out of it. The only gain that is made from it, is the government's gain by scaring people. People who are scared are easy to manipulate. "Oh" they say "but uncle Saddam had links with Al Qaida!" and suddenly a lot more people favour the war. Yes, you only have to mention the T-word and people will freak out completely.

Only thing good about the article is that it says Americans must unite. I'm pretty tired of this "liberals vs republicans" nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Napalm

Syria supports groups that are labeled as terrorist groups by the US:

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2005/64337.htm

Oh those terrorists are dangerous to the US and Europe somehow :\ meh whatever.

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Originally Posted by -DarthMaul-

I think it's because they support Lebanon which in turn supports Hezbollah. And because Israel is accusing them of allowing Hezbollah to fire rockets into Israel from Syria but they are denying it. BTW, Wiki has a page on it guys and it's quite useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis

Re: The WAR is for REAL

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The fact of the matter is the VAST majority of those 7,581 would of not been aimed at harming America. This is another case of the "world police" thing of which is quite disturbing since the dude who wrote it has very good credentials.

The vast majority of attacks in Iraq aren't against Americans. But that doesn't mean they aren't at war against us.

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Well I have to have two seperate windows open so i can throughly knock this article to the curb.

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Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157...363050?ie=UTF8
A read i reccomend to everyone.

His main point is that Arab antagonism to the West (and even non-fundamentalist Arab regimes' winking at terrorism) has its root in real grievances that have gone unaddressed by U.S. measures.

To put it it simple the threat posed by Islamic militancy is not because of our "freedom" but because of actual grivences that have been ignored by the United States.

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But isnt it a fact that many of these Islamic militant groups are angry at the US for interfering with the affairs of Islamic governments and law, as well as the stationing of American military in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Yemen?

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Originally Posted by Napalm

Yes, he stats those facts in the book.

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One of the main reasons also that they are angry with us, is because of the US Government's total blind support of anything that has to do with israel.

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Originally Posted by -DarthMaul-

One of the main reasons also that they are angry with us, is because of the US Government's total blind support of anything that has to do with israel.

Israel is the only true democracy in the middle east. You bet we support them.

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We support them, but is that really the right thing to do? Being democratic doesn't mean you're always right.

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the rest of the democratic world doesnt blindly support israel as the USA does..

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Originally Posted by Jill

Israel is the only true democracy in the middle east. You bet we support them.

That does not give it the right to act outside of international law. It is the very reason why the USA is so despised in the world today.

If for example the USA where to say to Israel "Stop" and we will support a multinational force going into southern Lebanon and patrol, route out Hezbollah. But no, Bush does not support the UN or any other force that would be acceptable to both sides. America took over from the British Empire as the world's policeman, but has really learnt nothing from it. Pax Britannica!

So many people today think that America is controlled by Jewish interests, why is that?

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Exactly. Just because Israel is America's military ally doesn't mean we should agree with everything. If the US washad been allied with Germany in 1939, would they have supported the invasion of Poland?

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Originally Posted by Akula971

So many people today think that America is controlled by Jewish interests, why is that?

Probably because so many people today want a scapegoat, someone to stick all the blame with, just like the Nazis did in the 1930s.

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If there was oil in them there steppes, then probably

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Originally Posted by Akula971

So many people today think that America is controlled by Jewish interests, why is that?

Because they believe the bullcrap spread by the anti-Semitic, anti Jew Arab muslims. The same people that believe that radio-controlled planes hit the WTC and the Pentagon and how Massad and Bush was behind the whole thing. And how OIL was behind the Iraqi war. Basically conspiracy theory nut jobs I think you get my point.

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Originally Posted by Jill

I think he was trying to point out that anything in jewish interest america is there to support them. that is why people think america is controlled by Israel.

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Originally Posted by -DarthMaul-

I think he was trying to point out that anything in jewish interest america is there to support them. that is why people think america is controlled by Israel.

Okay....so tell me. If it were not for the USA....Israel would have no friends? That way the Arab Muslims could kill them? Everyone acts like it is purely the The USA and Israel against the world. ya right. Just how many anti-Semitic countries are out there. Europe proved Europe during WW II.

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There is a difference between hating israel and hating jews. Hating jews is bad. Hating israel is what alot of people are doing. because even some jews in this world think and say that what israel is doing is wrong, even a minority in israel does so.

If it werent for britain there WOULD be no israel. and jews and muslims would've been as normally as they already had in the palastine.

And the USA was actually one of the countries not supporting the creation of the jewish state. Until the jewish lobby ;)

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Everyone acts like it is purely the The USA and Israel against the world.

The USA really kinda IS the only country that fully support Israel.

Israel apparently has just shelled a UN Observation post intentionally, and killed 4 UN Military observers..wow maybe it was an accident they thought they were killed hizbollah again.. an dguess what? no matter how many UN or Lebanese are killed no one will do anything.