US Marines allegedly massacre Iraqi civilians

[Master of Reality]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5030960.stm

Iraq will investigate allegations that US marines carried out a massacre of civilians in Haditha in November, the country's prime minister has said. Nouri Maliki told Reuters news agency there was "a limit to the acceptable excuses" for civilian casualties.
The Pentagon is close to ending its own inquiries into the deaths, initially attributed to a clash with militants.
Observers say the incident could deal a more serious blow to US standing than the Abu Ghraib scandal.
According to initial US military reports, 15 civilians and eight insurgents died after a bomb killed a marine in Haditha, a militant stronghold in Anbar Province.
The civilians were "victims of a wrong operation", Mr Maliki said in a separate interview with the BBC.
"It is not justifiable that a family is killed because someone is fighting terrorists."
Speaking to Reuters, he said his government was worried by "the increase in 'mistakes'" and would ask "for answers not only about Haditha but about any operation... in which killing happened by mistake".
"We will hold those who did it responsible," he added.
The BBC's Justin Webb reports from Washington that enough material has now been leaked to the US media about events in Haditha to suggest to many Americans that allegations of a massacre are very serious and may well be true.
'Cold blood'
US investigators are looking at both the actual events in Haditha on 19 November and an alleged cover-up by troops.
The military said at the time that the civilians were killed as a result of either the bomb or a gun battle which erupted afterwards, in which the militants were reportedly killed.
But reports from Iraqi witnesses and in the US media allege that marines went on a rampage.
According to the Wall St Journal, there is evidence that marines killed civilians, including women and children, without provocation.
Several marines are likely to be charged with murder and others with attempting to cover up the incident, the newspaper said, quoting civilian and military officials close to the investigations.
One of the marines in Haditha that day, Lance Cpl Roel Ryan Briones of Hanford, California, told the Los Angeles Times he had taken photos and carried bodies out of homes as part of a clean-up crew:
"They ranged from little babies to adult males and females. I'll never be able to get that out of my head. I can still smell the blood."
Caution plea
Jim Murtha, a Democratic Congressman and former marine, has said he believes civilians in Haditha were murdered and the incident was covered up.
"They killed innocent civilians in cold blood and that's what the report is going to tell," he said.
"It is as bad as Abu Ghraib, if not worse," he told CNN television.
Gen Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and chief military adviser to the US president, said on Monday it would be premature for him to judge the outcome of the investigations.
"If the allegations as they are being portrayed in the newspapers turn out to be valid, then of course there'll be charges," he said.
"We'll get to the bottom of the investigation and take the appropriate action."

Not suprising that there was a cover up. Quite damaging to the pro-war Americans' case isn't it?

[czech speacial forces]

what happens when politicians expect troops who are trained to kill (very good at it) are put on police duty.

[USMA2010]

Originally Posted by Master of Reality

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5030960.stm



Not suprising that there was a cover up. Quite damaging to the pro-war Americans' case isn't it?

No, it wasn't covered up. The Department of Defense acknowledged that it did indeed happen a while ago (November, if I remember correctly). Time only recently ran a report on it, for one reason or another. Ask them.

The fact that Murtha said it was a coverup doesn't surprise me at all. He hasn't exactly been a big supporter of our efforts overseas in the past couple of years. Much like that asshole Durbin, some politicians will go to any length to further their own careers, including making false accusations of guilt and over-arching judgements.

It is going to hurt the popular beliefs, yes. I'll be talking with my uncle about this pretty soon. He is currently stationed in Tikrit, so I'm sure he'll be hearing plenty about this incident.

[WarHawk109]

So I guess that means the US should just turn tail and run eh?

[Bohemund]

Shit happens. That's the problem with a prolonged war. This kind of stuff is inevitable.

We've managed to botch things pretty bad, so pulling out quickly is going to be awkward, but we're gonna have to do it sooner or later.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.]

Nothing has been proven yet, hell, you even have "allegedly" in the thread title.


How many civilians have the terrorists killed in cold blood?? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions?

If you have Marines who just had one of their fellow soldiers killed, they went looking for the person(s) that did it, and people got hurt. You have NO IDEA what happened, they bad guys could have used innocent people as shields (wouldnt be the first time)

There have been too many times that our own soldiers have been killed for taking TOO LONG to determine whether the person in the room they just stormed was innocent or bad, they have to make desicions in the blink of an eye, and sometimes, regretably it doesn't work out as planned.

[Bohemund]

Exactly. We sit in our comfy chairs and point fingers, but we are still oblivious to what its really like over there.

[Master of Reality]

Originally Posted by S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Nothing has been proven yet, hell, you even have "allegedly" in the thread title.


How many civilians have the terrorists killed in cold blood?? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions?

If you have Marines who just had one of their fellow soldiers killed, they went looking for the person(s) that did it, and people got hurt. You have NO IDEA what happened, they bad guys could have used innocent people as shields (wouldnt be the first time)

There have been too many times that our own soldiers have been killed for taking TOO LONG to determine whether the person in the room they just stormed was innocent or bad, they have to make desicions in the blink of an eye, and sometimes, regretably it doesn't work out as planned.

Well, I have allegedly in the title to keep pro-war supporters quiet. Since it was indeed reported by the army back in November, why did they say that it was caused by Iraqi rebels? And either way, there's that marine that is back in the US who had to clean up the bodies, as well as the children who survived it. What more evidence is needed to prove it?

[Crazy Wolf]

I sincerely hope that this is either not true(allegedly!), or the civilians were armed and hostile. I was ot there, i can not say what acts were commited, and whether or not they were commited "in cold blood". I really hope that this is untrue.

I REALLY hope that the Marines did not take justice into their own hands. The USMC does not need this.

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R.]

Originally Posted by Master of Reality

Well, I have allegedly in the title to keep pro-war supporters quiet. Since it was indeed reported by the army back in November, why did they say that it was caused by Iraqi rebels? And either way, there's that marine that is back in the US who had to clean up the bodies, as well as the children who survived it. What more evidence is needed to prove it?

And the Marines wouldn't clean up the bodies even if it was Rebels that caused it??? They are not blood thirsty monsters, unlike the John Kerry's and Murtha's have painted them to be.

If you talking about the marine i am thinking about, they quoted his MOTHER who wasnt there, she said he saw the whole thing, but he, who was there, says different.