[Religion] Religious Discussion

[Hitman_47]

Originally Posted by Cataphract

Religious beliefs do not require rituals. Religious beliefs do not require a Hell, or the need to kill people, or the need to tell people what to think or do.

What sort of belief do people have that do not believe in any higher power? Say it with me: a religious belief!

It seems to me that you don't know anything about religion.

There ARE rituals in religion.

That thing called, Praying for one example. Religious people are required to pray.

Worship is another example of religious ritual. Religious people are required to worship their god.

Take the Muslims for example. Their religion forces them to pray five times a day. Every day. While facing East towards Mecca. On a special prayer rug.

Those are just a couple of examples. Religious people have a huge laundry list of other religious laws that they are required to follow.

Religious people are also threatened with being sent to hell or being killed outright by their god if they do NOT follow their religious laws to the letter.

********

As far as your claim of, "What sort of belief do people have that do not believe in any higher power? Say it with me: a religious belief!".

You can't be serious. You expect me to fall for that?

Nope.

Wasn't born yesterday.

People who do not believe in any higher power have a, Non-religious belief.

The word is, Non. Meaning, without.

[Eragon]

I dont really belive that he exists. I mean, if some god as you say is so perfect and almighty, loving, caring and power over all, then why didnt he stop the tsunami? 150,000 PEOPLE DIED FROM THAT. IF there truly was a god, then dont you think he would have saved them? and we DO have the ancestral skeletons proving evolution did exist. And by the way, back when I didnt have doubts, I was reading the book of Job, and it said God and Satan were having a conversation. And it said the book was written by Moses or some guy. How could that guy know that God And Satan were having a conversation?

And with the seven days, if he can do anything, then why did he not make the whole thing in one day? It makes no sense. Ans also, they talk about people being born sinful. But with Adam and Eve, why would God create a serpent that would turn into the supreme overlord of hell? Because if he DID, then that would be stating that he WANTED sin in the world.

[Cataphract]

It seems to me that you don't know anything about religion.

There ARE rituals in religion.

Hitman, religions commonly include some sort of ritual. But they don't have to. There are other ways of experiencing religion besides the ritual.

Your understanding of religion is too much based on the Western experience that one must assume all science is wrong if it doesn't conform with your beliefs, and read the Bible or the Qur'an all day in order to be considered "religious." As such, you only use the word "religious" with a negative connotation.

Don't worry, this is a common atheist understanding of religion. Most atheists think of a "religion" as a bunch of crazy guys sitting around all day reading the Bible, a book that blatantly opposes accepted scientific facts. Most atheists view "religion" as putting passion before reason, or believe that science is necessarily at odds with religion. Most atheists look at all this and say, "I don't want to be like that. Religion is stupid." How do I know this? I was once an atheist.

As far as your claim of, "What sort of belief do people have that do not believe in any higher power? Say it with me: a religious belief!".

You can't be serious. You expect me to fall for that?

It's not something I said in order to make you "fall for it." It's just fact.

If you ever affirm a certain something, you are putting belief in that thing. You are believing in that thing religiously. Even if the thing you are believing is the non-existence of God. It's logical.

[Hitman_47]

Originally Posted by Cataphract

Hitman, religions commonly include some sort of ritual. But they don't have to.

If you ever affirm a certain something, you are putting belief in that thing. You are believing in that thing religiously. Even if the thing you are believing is the non-existence of God. It's logical.

You can't get around religious laws.

All religions have laws. Rituals that you HAVE to perform.

You can't get around this.

If you decide that your NOT going to pray and NOT going to worship your god. And your preacher finds out about it, he is going to say that god is going to send you to hell or punish you in some other way-( such as death).

And once again. if you don't believe something that means that you DON'T believe. It is possible to NOT believe.

A person can not believe in something that does NOT exist.

To put it another way, I am an Atheist and I do NOT believe in the idea of such a thing as a "god".

[Cataphract]

All religions have laws. Rituals that you HAVE to perform.

And atheism does not have laws? What about the laws of physics? Occam's Razor? The philosophy of science (that we can only believe in things that are falsifiable by experiment)? Just because, in atheism, there are no "punishments" for not being an atheist, doesn't mean that atheism is not a religion. In order to have a religion, one need not be threatened into it.

If you decide that your NOT going to pray and NOT going to worship your god. And your preacher finds out about it, he is going to say that god is going to send you to hell or punish you in some other way-( such as death).

Your understanding of religion is, once again, based solely on the dogmatic religions of the West! These are religions such as Christianity and Islam, which threaten you with eternal punishment if you do not obey, and which frequently oppose the findings of science.

To put it another way, I am an Atheist and I do NOT believe in the idea of such a thing as a "god".

You define the atheist position relative to theism, so your religion is the belief that theism is false. Even if you defined atheism in a positive way, such as the faith in science or rational thinking, this would still be a religion (albeit a 100% rational one). The belief would be that everything can be explained by scientific means, and if it cannot be, it would be merely a problem of the impossibility of measuring extremely small things.

[AzH]

Originally Posted by Cataphract

Just because, in atheism, there are no "punishments" for not being an atheist, doesn't mean that atheism is not a religion.

Religion:

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

atheism is not a 'religion'.

[Μαjïç MushrøøM]

Originally Posted by AzH

atheism is not a 'religion'.

In other worlds, atheism is the 'lack of a religion'.

[temo82]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. God created us that way with freedom of choice. Love is not love if it is forced, thus since God is love He gave us the choice to love Him or not. All of Heaven rejoices when a soul comes to Christ in faith. God constantly pleads to those who are not recieving the good news of salvation found in Jesus. Jesus said "Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe." Further in the New Testament it says faith is the evidence of things unseen. I don't believe in coincidence and have seen evidence of God in my life. I praise Him daily for everything good and bad. The choice is yours to make, but I'm telling you there is a Creator above that loves you and wants nothing more than for you to love Him and be happy. For He claimed, "For I know the thoughts I have toward you. Thoughts of good not evil." As far as the Bible is cocerned to find evidence of it's inspiration look in Daniel. Daniel 2 predicts the future of Europe. The head of the statue is Babylon. The torso the Medes and Persians. The Thighs Greece. The legs are Rome. The feet are the 10 kingdoms of Europe after the fall of the Roman empire. Compare it historically with what Daniel says and you will find it to be true and Daniel was written many years before any of it happened. May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

[Cataphract]

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

I don't go by this definition. Why? Because the definition is self-defeating. If there is a creator or governor of the universe, then these powers would be "natural" and not "supernatural"! So, in a sense, the definition assumes that the atheist position is correct before it even begins to define "atheism."

I think of a "religion" more as a "worldview." Some practices and rituals may be inspired by that wordview, but these are the result of religion and are not the religion in itself. A religion is not just a bunch of random practices without a purpose behind them. There is always a purpose.

Even when I was an atheist, I understood that atheism is a sort of religion in itself.

Originally Posted by AzH

atheism is not a 'religion'.

You're wrong.

Originally Posted by Μαjïç MushrøøM

In other worlds, atheism is the 'lack of a religion'.

You're also wrong.

[AzH]

Originally Posted by Cataphract

You're wrong.

that is your opinion. one which you are fully entitled to.

i'm atheist, exactly which part of my life is 'religious'?