Terrorists
 

We are fighting a people that hates us. We have one of the largest militaries in the world. They can strike any where, at any time, any place. Our government goes against their very religion.

The government seems to think that the more insurgents they kill the less the terrorists. Terrorists dont fear death, how is death going to stop them?

For every insurgent that we kill, the wife and son will become one. For every brother we kill, the other brother will become one. You cannot attack a idealogy with bullets, it just wont happen.

America was founded by "Insurgants" We were up against an army that dwarfed our own. They thought that if they sent troops over to quell the uprising, everyone will forget. The Americans didnt forget the want for their own nation. We used guerilla tactics, wearing down the grand british army and navy.

They sent an army to attack an ideology, Freedom for all religions, races, cultures. It didnt work.

And now we are here, fighting a people whos ideology differs from our own.

We cannot force them to think like us. We cannot scare them into thinking like us. We cant hurt them into thinking like us.

All we are doing is turning younger generations hostile to the westerners.

Creating more terrorists, something we dont want to do.

If only the government and the chickenhawks would see this.

We have to change many aspects of our culture to reduce terrorism. We have to show the common peoples of the middle east that we are not demons. We have to show them that they are better off as a westerner. We must teach them that we are not cruel, ruthless.

When they see us on their land, they get mad, when they see us attacking another country for no reason, they think that all the anti-american propaganda is true, that we are devils.

The muslims tell their children how bad the US is, only to be confirmed when someone close to them dies due to a mistake by the US military or a terrorist that is trying to take out our soldiers.

History has shown that military might cannot destroy an ideology.

Military will suppress it, will never get rid of it. And when the military is weak, the ideology that has been suppressed all these years will be released causing normal people to bear arms and fight to the death.

Military wont cut it, how can America show the common people that we are not bad, that the grass is greener on the other side for any man, woman, child that comes over?

How will we defuse the hatred of the western world?

How do we tell them that we are normal people that just want to live our life the best we can, and shed the demonic image that we have gained?

Re: Terrorists
 

That's a pretty good post.

I really think there is a large difference between the insurgency in Iraq and the terrorism that toppled the world trade centers or bombed Madrid and London.

While the insurgency in Iraq is a form a terrorism, with the tactics they use, it's far more local than the terrorism we know too well. The "terrorists" being killed in Iraq aren't the ones who would be planning big international plots, but rather the ones who answer the call to arms after the invasion. Same goes for the people in surrounding countries who want a piece of the action. We are hardly wearing down their numbers, but rather, making more.

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iraq is a terrorist magnet. Every terrorist in the world wants to take a potshot at our guys over there, because they are valnurable.

Not to mention a forced takeover got some of the locals in on it.

Kind of ironic, we go to a country to take out terrorists and we dont even get the right ones, all the while creating more due to our presence.

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The only rational way to attack an ideology is to undermine it. The man who organized the dubbing of Sesame Street into Iraqi deserves a medal more than the man who planned out the strike zones in Operation Iraqi Freedom (military operations always get the most euphamistic titles)

Re: Terrorists
 

Maybee we could get them to adopt Asian culture instead? Or how about African. Either one would be more likely to succed than Western culture. All we have to do is pony up lots of cash to buy the weapons that insurgents buy from Russian, China, and other nations and then they won't be able to fight. And we can give all these weapons to the Iraqi army and rebels fightinh to overthrow dictators elsewhere.

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I have one idea: Get off their land. Get the american presence out of anywhere they consider holy. If the people of those countries see us get off, the leaders cant say we are attacking the muslims.

That will help.

Re: Terrorists
 

Or not. If we just threaten to blow up one of their most hly mosuks if they attack us, and then we actually do, than say we'll take Muhhamends body and smash it to dustyer dust, they will see the light and stop the foolishness. For however "brave" a terrorist is to blow himslef up,, it takes far more bravery ro actually fight out Marines like civilized humans.

Re: Terrorists
 

you dont get it. The reason the average joe muslim (or the average mohammad :lol:) is up in arms is because they believe we are attacking their religion. The US going and attacking a middle eastern country only affirms that belief.

We blow up a mosque, that affirms that we are against them, even though we are not. That is what causes the average mohammad to strap bombs to his chest and takes out military convoys, because they believe they are killing the "invaders"

Re: Terrorists
 

That...is false. We never have and are not attacking a religion.

Neither does the terrorist reflect the majority of Muslims. It's a silly generalization that many people make, just like the generalizations foreigners make of Americans.

What America is fighting is actually a small group of individuals that have used their religion as an excuse to kill people. To believe that everyone in the Middle-East is a terrorist is both ignorant and unfounded.

Re: Terrorists
 

middle easterners generally have a distrust for westerners. Mostly because of the extreme cultural and religional differences.

i never said we attacked their religion, but they think we have.

I never said that majority of muslims are terrorists.

Dont put words in my mouth.

but then again you are just being argumentative and shouldnt be part of this conversation.

Re: Terrorists
 

Joe Ali.

No its not the US govt attacking Islam,but most western media,some historians,professors,etc.Danial Pipes an example.

I am afraid,most Muslims are now afraid.We had suicide bombings in Bangladesh,people got killed.Only retards support them.

found something yesterday,UBL used to go to strip clubs in Lebanon lol.


Insurgents are mostly Sunni Muslims who hates the Shias and US for giving them too much power.There are certain shia militias and they are being supported(yes I admit I think its most possible) by Iran which itself is a shia country.

Sunnis are mostly Saddam's supporters.also the start of the invasion have fueled anger.

Re: Terrorists
 

I stand corrected, Your average Ali :lol:

All the more reason for them to believe the west is against them.

Are you saying that most of the terrorists born in iraq?

I believe only some of them are homegrown. Others are from many countries all over the world.

But then again, I dont have any figures with me.

BTW were is the Banana Islamic Republic?

Re: Terrorists
 

You just can't replace one culture with another and how would you actually even do this? And how you know that so called "African" or "Asian" cultures (it's like saying "American" culture, putting all countries in America into one box) could succeed better than western one? The Coalition isn't replacing the Iraqi culture, just bring western elements into it.

That's nonsense: you can't buy ALL weapons from Russia, China etc. and make sure that there's no secret weapon factories, no illegal dealers, no illegal weapons etc. and it would cost so much money that we couldn't comprehend with the numbers. It's simply impossible.

So you mean that all the sacrifices made by the Coalition, its supporters and Iraqis & Afghans would have been in vain, not to mention billions & billions of dollars spent to the war? Should the Coalition leave Afghanistan & Iraq, abandon them and let them start civil war, giving a chance for a new dictator to start his own tyrant regime? That's absurd, there's no turning back in this point.

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hehe I just heard something liek Banana Republic,so I got the idea from there.

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If someone threatened to attack or actually attacked something holy to you, would you yield?

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smart idea.really smart.Saudi Arabia is friendly with the US and the King is an opponent to Bin Laden(they hated each other).and what do you mean by smash Muhammad's(P) body to dust?

true but these guys haven't got any weapons,they solely rely on suicide bombing.

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Even tho i agree that attacking every mainly muslim country because they may or may not be harboring terrorists is rather counter productive. I dont think pulling out is an acceptable option at this point.

You guys will need to stay and rebuild the country while taking casualty's, untill the people are happy. If the majority of people is happy with what you are doing, "terrorists/insurgents" will be ratted out more often untill virtually none remain. If you cant make the iraqi people happy, you guys are screwed.

How do you go about reducing acts of terrorism.. first, minimilise your presense in the middle east. STOP all support to Israel, they can take care of themselves after being protected for over 40 years... Easier said then done, but heh, no-one said it was going to be easy.

Re: Terrorists
 

Wrong.

If that was true, then virtually every practicing person of Islamic faith would be fighting the United States right now. Not true. Although there is support for terrorism in many arab states, the vast majority of people do not commit terrorist acts. Thus making your "Average Mohammad" statement false.

The war on terrorism must be a two pronged attack. One is to capture and punish terrorists, while preventing terrorist acts. The other is to fight the root source of terrorism. Although the United States is currently doing both, there is a definate emphasis on the former rahter than the latter.

"I was just a boy when the infidels came to my village in their Blackhawk helicopters. The infidels fired at the oil fields and they lit up like the eyes of Allah. Burning oil rained down from the sky and cooked everything it touched. I could only hide myself and cry as my goats were consumed by the fiery black liquid death. In the midst of the chaos, I could swear that I heard my goats screaming for help. As quickly as they had come, the infidels were gone. It was on that day I put a jihad on them. And if you don't believe it, then you'd better kill me now, because I'll put a jihad on you, too."

I've got news for you guys. Without American support, Israel would cease to exist. They are one of our closest allies, and have just as much a right to live in that area as Palestinians. The US will not stop supporting Israel, nor should they.

Abrarur, in Iraq one of the more popular forms of attacks is having four or more insurgents charge at an American base guns a blazing. They apparently hope to get inside a building and then kill as many people as they can before being killed themselves. Fortunatly, the M240 prevents that from happening most of the time.

Basically put, not all suicide attacks are with bombs, fortunatly.

Re: Terrorists
 

Well, Grizzly, George Washington didn't strap C4 to his body and blow himself up in a British market, etc...It's not quite the same scenario. We are attacking an 'ideology' that believes all non-Muslims should be killed. The 'insurgents' and 'terrorists' are cowards, they wait to kill until they see unsuspecting women and children.

I agree with you on one point though, it is hard to sway the argument when the opposing force wants to die. I, personally, think Islam itself is violent. You may disagree and say it is peaceful, but what if the largely publicized folowers of Islam are freakin' suicide bombers and murderers? What about the riots in France?

When was the last time you saw Christian suicide bombers? Hindu? Buddhist? Catholic? Mormon? Jewish?

That just about singles Islam out as the violent, problematic religion despite what Allah intended.

EDIT: Couldn't have said it better myself. :)

Re: Terrorists
 

:cry:

Very well put mate.

Re: Terrorists
 

:lol:

How is that? The palastinians are no threat to them, even tho the countries surrounding them would love to kick some israeli butt, they wont stand a chance with their outdated russian crap. Besides, they wouldnt attack because the US wouldnt hesitate to help out any western country that is under attack, they know what too. There is no need to be all overly friendly and mushy with the "zionist invaders",it doesnt make you very popular among the muslims.

Re: Terrorists
 

Maybe these terrorists would deserve a bit more respect if they didn't act like a bunch of thugs and have to resort to kidnapping peace activists and others for the fowarding of their goals. That is the ultimate form of cowardice, attacking the very people sent to end the war against you. We ain't gonna pull out if your to busy acting like a bunch of pimps and keep trying to instill a religous belif in others without them liking it. Why would any person with any morals (even some guy on death row here) EVER submit to an ideologiy of hatred like that. We just need to start killing all the war mongering muslims and blowing up the sites they work at. I'm not against muslims, only the terrorist ones. I would never join their religon just to survive becasue these cowards don't even care how many fellow muslims they kill, so long as they kill one Christan. But you really can't blame them, we stated this war hundreds of years ago, with the Crusades. And now us non-catholics have to pay for your crazy pope Urban's mistake. You guys suck.

Re: Terrorists
 

• Hamas

• Islamic Jihad

• Hezbollah

http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fb...83137_3607.jpg

http://www.rotten.com/library/histor...mas/hamas2.jpg

http://www.jp-petit.com/Geopolitique...do_suicide.jpg

You were saying?

Yeah, the average Palestinian is sick of the fighting. But I've got news for you mate, those people blowing up school buses and temples are either Palestinian, or Palestinian trained terrorists.

The "problem" is that between making a world of Muslims happy and being allies with Israel, we would rather be allies with Israel. Personally, I agree with that idea.

Re: Terrorists
 

The israeli's can deal with the terrorists themselves, they have enough tanks, helicopters and jets to fight terrorism in the US's style.

This is a popularity contest, you cant stop terrorism if you keep fueling their hatred. Then again, maybe you cant even win this war at all.

Re: Terrorists
 

Israel can very well take care of itself now. It has one of the most powerful armies in the world in terms of quality and its neighbouring countries have no match against its army which is the most powerful in the Middle East. Israel's economy is doing well even without US help, it has large weapon industry of its own and the relations with Egypt (which is going towards democracy) are quite neutral now. There's no such threat for Israel that it would need the support of USA. And like 13th Raptor pointed out, the USA would protect its ally against an invasion.

Then face the consequences. Israel was the root for whole terrorism against the USA. May I ask, why you are so keen in supporting Israel?

Like has been pointed out many times in these forums, the religion of Islam isn't violent in itself. It's just the religious fanatics and other radicals who twist it into their own means and the circumstances are quite favourable for them. Remember the Crusades?

What comes to the riots in France: French officials knew very well that they would break out sooner or later but they decided to forget the problems. The riots didn't broke out because most of the rioters were muslims, but because their living conditions were/are clearly bad. They don't have much services, many original French despise them and its hard for them to get work because they aren't original French. Furthermore, French assimilation policy instead of adapting doesn't make their living any easier. Everyone cannot start some kebab restaurant or clean up offices.

And if it was because of Islam, why the muslims in Germany (that make up about 10 % of the whole population) haven't rioted? Because these problems are much smaller in Germany than in France.

Re: Terrorists
 

Like duh! :p That is what a lot of "foreing" people are trying to tell you ever since the war started. Guess why so many countries opposed the Iraqi war? No proper prove of WMD's, no links to terrorism, Iraq being one out of more dictarships, some were the people are a lot worse off etc.

The war on terror never can be one either, all we can do is try to prevent attacks from happening and try to solve the root of all issues but for every "terrorist" you kill one or moe will rise again. Fighting terrorism is a must but it's a battle that can not be won.

Re: Terrorists
 

They kill innocent people. Murder is murder. There is no difference.

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So many regimes out there commit such crimes, yet they are left alone.

Re: Terrorists
 

thats a good post.. but america is attacking them a reason.. mainly revence for 'defacing' american property... it wasnt right of them to attack us true.. but retailiating will just piss them off.. BUT it also shows them we are willing to fight for what we believe in, sure the goverment is screwed up, alot of things in this world is

Re: Terrorists
 

What happened to we can't police the world?

Re: Terrorists
 

So now you want us to invade every corrupt dictatorship?

Re: Terrorists
 

Im pointing out that the US's motives are vague.. first WMD's, then freedom, then terrorists, then a mix of all of those..

Be consistant, i wonder when Lybia, Cuba, China, north korea will be invaded for restricting people's freedom.

Re: Terrorists
 

Cuba, never. Castro is old and will die in a few years. "Communism" won't live past his death.

Lybia, after the next time a terrorist attack is linked to them.

China, never. Sure, we'd free the Chinese people. But then the nuclear weapons would land.

North Korea, sometime in the next couple of years is my best guess.

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So much for selfless operations to spread freedom. :p

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Unfortunatly, not many people buy into the idea of invasion simply for liberation. Other motives must be made, such as in Iraq.

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Well that is the samrtest thing I heard in this thread. let's joke around and threaten to level Mecca and MEdina so we can ahve 1.5+ billion people in the world angry with us, and most likely up in arms. Fight marines like civilised humans? lol they are called marines for a reason, they aren't civlised. like all other ocuntries there marines aren't civlised.

Wrong? He is kinda right to an extent. Alot of muslims in the middle east think america is attacking our religion. and there isnt that much support for terrorism in the middle east. I am from egypt, and have visited Saudi Arabia. Alot of them despise terrorists and what they did to our reputation. but there IS support for Palastenian militants.(not al qaeda)

Neither is OBL. but that is a stupid comparison because americans didn't have C-4s back then. and there was no "british" peoples in the continetial united states to harass.

Palastenainns aarent a threat? I'd think they kinda are. and out dated russian crap? Yeah I guess F-15s and F-16s and M1A1(egypt) and M1A2(Saudi Arabia), Patriot missles, M-60s, Mig-29, etc. coul dbe considered outdated russian crap.
Israel is Middle EASTERN. not Western.heck more arabs are western then israelies(as in music, food, etc.)
Good lota shit that's doing currently in Iraq and Israel, and Vietnam(gurrila fighting). Gurrila fighting can better withstand and win against the modern decisplined army.

lol wow. I happen to know that Hindus used to use suicide bombing way/at same time before muslims did(sri lanka and india). yeah Hinduism MUST be a violent religion. and the murder's part. I guess since what Irish did that all christian protestans are Murderers too. and riots in france..do you know what the riot is? do you know what it is about? you need to learn about what happens in france first. Mulims not being integrated enough(even the french speaking ones, like moroccans or algerians), and alot of muslims there living in Ghetto like areas with no jobs. yeah seems fair. they shoul djust sit there and not complain.

Exactly. In Germany and Austria for example muslims are much more integrated and don't have much problems.

so we can only police certain parts of it? since we(america) are already policing anyways why not just go after all the bad regimes?

no ofcourse we should only invade muslim ones.

Re: Terrorists
 

I should have been more clear about that. I was talking about US embassies and Western Busnissess. Stuff of that nature.

I agree that it is suicide to leave iraq and afganastan. That is one of the reasons i didnt want the US start a war with iraq, because they would be over there for a long time, in grave danger, all the while they could be making the situation worse.

Re: Terrorists
 

"Made up" motives and half-truths only work in the short run. People who recognize that they were deceived will be even more unwilling to follow their government in the future.

And lies / half-truths are a good source for unnecessary conspiracy theories.

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I never said the every average ali was a terrorist. Please dont lie.
I said that the image of we have of attacking their culture could get your average Ali to try to blow the US up.

Not all of them are fanatical, but some are. And once they are told that the west is coming to get them, the fanaticals will do whatever they can to stop the "aggressers"

Re: Terrorists
 

There is very little the US can do to help against palastenian terrorists. And im talking about their neighbours Syria and Jordan, Egypt would never attack Israel, neither would saudi arabia.

Meh, i always looked at the Israeli's as western people, dont ask why, fact is.. western or not, they are the US's allies and probably always be, preventing any conventional and nuclear attack. They will do fine without having overly close relations with the united states.

Exacly, and israel has been dealing with terrorists for 40 or more years, having more experience then the US, they dont really need help now do they?

Re: Terrorists
 

Depends. when it comes to Arab neighbours and a new modern war I am going to dismiss the older wars, and say it will need america's help. unless they use thier nuclear power they will need help. my point is still no matter what, look still palastenians get through check points and crap and start firing thier home made rockets, and shooting people any how.

Never? Ever heard heard o fthe Israelir war of Independance? or the October/Ramadan/Yom Kippur War? In those wars they attacked israel.

Re: Terrorists
 

The US cannot help them contain the palastinians any better then they can by themselves! The israeli's have the experience and the tech to do it. As i said.. the agressors would face the UN's and US's combined wrath if they dared to invade.


Yes, and not to long before Japan bombed Hawai.. But thats unlikely to happen again isnt it?

Re: Terrorists
 

Maul, although I agree with your post for the most part, I feel that I should set the record straignt, as I do oh so well. :D

Yeah, the US has given Abrams MBTs to Saudi Arabia and Egypt. But that isn't like all military vehicles are necessairly up to date in those countries. Some rather old aircraft, such as the Soviet built MiG-23, are still used in the Egyptian Air Force. Older MiG-29As serve in many middle eastern air forces. The backbone of the Iranian armor force is a Chinese build derivitive of the decades old T-55, hardly an Abrams killer (or for that matter an Abrams threatener).

We are not attacking your religion, let people know that! What we seek to destroy are those who use your religion as an excuse to kill. He who bends Islam's meaning, from peace to war, is our enemy. What we need is for people to realize this, and you can help.

Raptor, war has changed. Now the countries of Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran are waging a proxy war on Israel by funding and equipping terrorists, rather than declaring open war on them. The enemies of Israel realized that this is simply not the way to go about defeating that country in the Yom Kippur and Six Days wars. They certaintly are not willing to risk being destroyed again.

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Ok well there is one thing you can garantee in this world. Terrorism will always be in it. Terrorists don't fear death, they welcome it as it is part of their religion.(well for all Arab Terrorist groups/cells, n some others).

Also Terrorists are cowards, they mainly inflict their damge on the civililian populations of the world to make some crazy point.

The Thing is Terrorism is "Indestructible"; How ever much Blair and Bush Toss each other off over methods of winning against terrorism, there will be no end. Something a lot of people mis-understand is that the enemy shooting at us in Iraq and Afghansitan is Militia not terrorists, terrorist blow up cars, and buildings. Terrorists are scum, I have no honour for them. :moon:

Re: Terrorists
 

So you end it by e-mooning the populace?

I agree that terrorists will be always with us, you should at least try to look intelligent.

Re: Terrorists
 

Mig-29 s no matter what version arent that bad though :p. and those Mig-21s(yeah pretty sad they are 21s not 23s), have been aggressively updated with modern technology from nations like france, britian and USA. Egypt and Israel have roughly the same number of modern air craft. who knows egypt might be used as the pawn of war again(hopefully not, other arabs need to fight wars themselves instead of throwing us all of the resposibility and blame).

I do agree about the part of Iran though. not to turn this into a military discussion thread don't they have some Tomcats I hear?

and true. I do agree terrorism can't be killed off 100%. in a world like ours with soooo much different langauges and religions and political views there are bound to be terrorists of some sort. but they still need to be curbbed in a way.

Re: Terrorists
 

The MiG-29A is manuverable, but is quite lacking in avionics. It even lacks a modern Heads Up Display. Though the Mirage is a great aircraft


Egypt does have MiG-23s, although they may have sold them somewhere down the line. And Iran does own some F-14As. However, the US never gave them spare parts or repair equipment after the Revolution. Some reports suggest that they were used as early-warning aircraft in the Iran-Iraq war.

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One thing for sure is negotiating with terrorists won't get you anywhere either. They're not going to listen to you. Between trying to talk to them and killing them, I'll go with killing.

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in that case, why are you guys still so friendly with saudi arabia when they wage an underground war against israel?

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Money. Business. Resources. Power.

Thats why.