World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050818/...y_dutch_ecn_dc

Time to wipe that dust off of my bike. I might need it in the future...lol

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Americans should be forced to ride bikes . It would solve two problems. The obesity epidemic and global warming. Also bike sellers would become rich.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Just tell me someting I didn't know...

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Well crisis brings about rapid change so maybe it is for the better.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Biodiesel for the win!

http://www.biodiesel.org/

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

They've been saying that for years. When it happens, I'll believe it.

Mack

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

and once we solve those epidemics, let us move on to yet another epidemic- this one moving accross Europe; generalizations and sterotyping. :uhoh:


i vote for water or a water-solar fuel. wont have as much kick, but hell, it could work.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

I'm from america.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

And by then it will be too late. How much higher do oil prices need to go before people realize there is not and infinite supply of oil?

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

I want to modify my car to run on piss. I mean, really, give it a practical use. And besides, if my car runs out of gas, I can just piss into the tank and be on my way.

Well, knowing the enginuity of man, in 10 years, cars will probably run on water or dirt.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Riding bikes is impractical bullshit, hell if I'm going to pick up groceries on a bike and ride 30 miles to the store in back taking me several hours to do a simple task. Besides obese people usualy don't even bother to drive, they just have their skinny family and freinds run errands for them, so how precisely does this solve obesity. Not to mention the fact that it would be hilarious to see a 500 pound butterball try to balance on a bike. Ultimately in the end the only thing that will stop obesity is a nation wide change in philosophy or rudementury teachings. None of this "beauty is all on the inside" bullshit which is just something used to make lazy bums feel better. Yes there is inner beauty and outer beauty, both of which must be balanced.

Damn it, went off on a hell of a tangant. They've been saying oil will be gone in the next decade for the past 5 decades. Ultimately it'll run out sooner or later and everyone will be screwed, imparticularly the middle east, thats pretty much their only export of great value. Hybrid cars will become the unleaded gas about 2 years from now, in 5 years from now I can see hydrogen cars on the road, seeing them once every week. In 10 years I can see hydrogren being fully implemented and about 1/5 of cars on the road being hydrogren based. I like the ideas proposed by biofuel, however I have my own plans for world domination, err I mean, defeating the energy chrisis, right.......

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

actually it might not be that far fetched urine powered battery:p

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

*runs off to garage to start working on car*

Thank you. Maybe I'll no longer need to bankrupt myself by buying gas....

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

ROFLMFAO! :lol: Damn that would safe me some money.. But you need atleast 40 or 50 of those batteries and the whole family has to pee in your tank then.. (or just get a horse or something :p).. And not far after, the governments come and they'll tax you for taking a pee..

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Hydrogen cars could be something. Iceland has it. They've started a BIG project to convert most of the transportation inte using Hydrogem. I don't know what it's called in English but in Swedish it's called ''bränsleceller'' if that helps anything.

GO ICELAND!

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Bränsleceller is just Swedish for the hydrogen technology :). Here in Stockholm we have like 5 busses (can't really remember the numbers, that's just a guess) that's powered by hydrogen. You can recognize them by there's a fairly big ammaunt of water steam comming out from the exhaust pipe.

http://www.bussfoto.com/Bussfoto/Bil...olm_040107.jpg

Look closely and you can see the water steam at the roof (where the exhaust pipe is located).

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Ok, you can ride your bike for 25 to 30 miles to your work place and have an extremly high probably of getting hit by someone in a car. I won't ride a bike where I live and after my counsin got killed a few weeks back in an bike accident.

hmmm peeing to fill your tank, I could see it now

"we are out of fuel on the interstate"
"everyone get out and pee in the tank!"
*cop pull up*
"all of you are charged with public indency"

I want one of those hydrogen burning cars, they even make kits to convert gasoline powered cars to burn hydrogen. If I could not use that then I want a gas powered fuel cell. Nearly all the gasoline is converted to eletricty so you get alot better milage.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

*start drewling with devilish red eyes* BUSS! I LOVE BUSSES! *returns to normal state*

Hmm... so it's no liquid water that runs out of the back of the bus? That would have been great. Think all of the countries (e.g. Hungary) that during summertime bring out these big cars the water the roads. It could be done by busses if liquid water would flow out from an exhaust pipe on the backside of the bus. :nodding:

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

The very easy translation of "Bränslecell" is "Fuel cell".:)

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Gas prices are raising mostly because India and China are using more gas, AND gas is running out.

I hope it runs out and we are forced to result to new alternatives. Watch the oil companies shit their pants when they can no longer provide oil and get money in return.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

In school some guy who was visiting us and giving us a lesson (a real one in school) about the enviorement said that the Arabian Peninsula states would shift to Fuel Cells and Hydrogen technoligy (spelling?) because the don't want to lose the place as ''world fuel supplier''. They want a continued flow of money.

Who knows. Maybe in 30-40 years Iceland and New Zealand will be the new Bahrain and Quatar. :D

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Hehe since we were first I think we should keep our oil, and let those still ride a bicycle:D:smokin:

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Heh it's not THAT much water ;).

The big problem with fuel cells is that it's so damn expensive. A fuel cell buss costs 5 time more than an ordinary one, and it costs alot more to maintain too. Hopefully someone can find out a way to make them cheaper.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Well if we use that much cars and oil, and we have already spent it much, China and India have exact same rights to do it aswell.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Well if you feel like that, why don't you ride your bicycle then, and let the rest of us continiue to drive our cars without having to feel bad about it.
I said it before and I say it again. I am not preperd to let anyone in China or India or Africa for that matter get a higher standard on my expensehttp://www.gamingforums.com/images/smilies/ohlord.gif

You can call it selfishness if you like, I couldn't care less. But that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Sure you can have your opinion.Not much you can do about it,though,so you better prepare yourself.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Why?
Noone can force me to give money to those countries. Or accept that they should get oil.
And I can tell you, next year when the "right" side won the election I can promise you that you will see some changes, in this country!

The western world found it first. Finders keeps it, unless you are preperd to sell.....expensive.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

you know the other countries are not getting the gas for free they are buying it too and it is not you who decide whom to sell unless you are from middle east or an american . you cant do anything about it. and no one is asking you give money to anybody

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Who are you kidding? That's all they ask about all the time. Read a European paper, or watch some European commercial and they will show you pictures from India or Africa or some other poor place, so we in the "rich" western world can feel bad.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

I have a question, I don't know anything about hydrogen. Can hydrogen be made using water from the ocean?

Doesn't it seem like a stupid idea to use water from our fresh lakes? The hydrogen we would consume would be ten times more than the water we normally drink in a day I think. I don't really know anything about hydrogen cars so I might be talking out my ass. Someone please explain this concept to me.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

We've got a great supply of hydrogen off our coast here in the US (and anyone can make hydrogen from water with a little electricity, or derive it from natural gas), the problem is that deriving hydrogen from sources other than water would result in a net gain in the amount of water on the planet. Ultimately, that would end up being an even bigger problem than global warming. When we change from fossil fuels to an alternate in the future, whenever the hell that happens, we've got to make sure that we do it right.
Yes it is possible. You make hydrogen from water through the process of hydrolysis (literally meaning spliting water). You do this by running an electric current through it. The H2O molecules split, giving you H2 (hydrogen) and O2(Oxygen). Since ocean water is still chemically H20 (with salt mixed it with it), it is perfectly possible. In fact salt increases the conductivity of water, thus making it more effecient to make hydrogen from ocean water than lake water.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Hydrogen is H2, a gas under normal circumstances. It's made by electrolysis of water H2O. During this electrolysis hydrogen and oxygen are made. You can use hydrogen to power vehicles in two ways, as fuel for a normal combustion engine, or by a fuel cell. Both end products are water, so you don't use up any water at all and you don't change the water levels either.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Can you create hydrogen from the water in the ocean? That seems like a good idea in my opinion. Filter out all the nasty salt and other minerals and take just the water.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Salt allows for better conductivity in the water, so it is actually better to do hydrolysis with salt water (salt water is still H2O, it just has salt mixed in with it).

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

My car is ready to run on E-85 and my two Mustangs will be E-85 compatible when done. I am assuming that the 15% petroleum fuel will be synthetic by then.

Heck lets just run pure grain alcohol with a flame color additive.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Finding it has very little to do with who gets to buy it,it`s up to those who sit on the oil.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

heh, no shit.

The time to start developing alternative fuels or power sources was during the 80's. During the 8-'s a couple of hybrid-esque and electric cars, along with a couple other ones showed up as well, however in the 90's they faded away. From what i recall, the 90's were all about solar power, but that didn't work out as well as expected. Most governments failed to properly manage the development and funding for alternative fuel and power source research.

A couple options now are:

Ethanol: A quick fix, to be blunt. It only improves the vast petroleum problems slightly, and while it is promising and the most used right now, it isn't fit to solve all problems.

Hydrogen: Alot of media around this idea. While it is a brilliant idea, its been poorly developed in overall affordability. Its expensive as hell and if there was a gasoline-sized tank on it, it would be the entire length of the car. Its my personal favorite, the most promising, and the right alternative, but it needs help...and hopefully help will come.

Gas/Electric hybrids: Good for now, like ethanol, but not the right thing in the long run. While it improves gas consumption by up to 40%, it is still a work-in-progress, and people seem to think this is the solution to the problem. I support hybrids, but they are underpowered, and expensive. Two things that Americans do not want.

Nuclear Power: Powerful, plentiful, and a great solution to factory oil consumption. The problem is, its nuclear power, and that means alot of nuclear waste, as well as dangerous reliability numbers.

Solar Power: Has been in the world for quite a while, but it hasn't produced what the original ideas proposed. As of right now, there are no production vehicles that run on solar power, and while it does help in alot of places, its not the ultimate solution. It has paid off well in a couple European countries, and it has paid off for a couple homes around the U.S., including a tax break for people willing to use solar power in Florida.

Wind Power: Good for windy, rural areas, and well...nowhere else. Where they are right now, they work well, but propsed ideas like the ones for Cape Cod, will not go through because residents don't want giant windmills blocking the view. They are loud and obstructive, and that is their downfall. If those could be fixed, then wind power would be an option.

Hydroelectric Power: Power provided by running water, such as dams. A good idea, but the cost of building a dam is extreme, and that means it can't be used as a solution within the next 10-15 years. It provides a good amount of energy, but you can't build as many as coal factories.

If there are any i missed, tell me.

Our government and the world has neglected to tend to this problem, and the result will be chaos in 10 years. Once gas prices ion the U.S. hit $4 very few will pay it, because they can't afford it, and because they don't have the nerve to "just let it go." The solution should have been found or have been very close to being found, but we are 5 years behind, and there won't be a proper solution until hell breaks loose.

The best solution is nuclear power for mass-electrical power in city areas, with extremly highly regulated restrictions for wastes, Hydrogen for automobiles, and wind power for the rural areas.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Yes, Fuel Cell cars seem promising, they use hydrogen to power themselves, and the only exhaust they give off is Water vapor. The only sideffect I can see from that is increased humidity and rainy weather. Even if this oil shortage isn't as bad as it seems, I'd rather they start working on a new energy source sooner instead of later...

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

The gas costs about 7 dollars per gallon here.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

US $4 per gallon is still less than what the rest of the world pays. We just flip out over gas prices because we're used to them being so much lower, and the best selling vehicle in the US is a truck. $4 per gallon isn't bad, when it hits $6 we'll be on par with current European prices.


Exactly why we should only derive our hydrogen from water. Even though it's more expensive than deriving it from natural gas or harvesting pure hydrogen, more water would put us in the same place global warming ultimately would.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

I know that and i know that its even more expensive in other countries. But, most Europeans don't use as much fuel as the U.S., don't commute as much as us, and don't consume as much as us. When Americans get fed up with rising gas prices, and there isn't a solution, we are screwed over here.

I actually thought about this the other day:

When America began, most people lived near or in cities. Ever since the invention of the locomotive and cars, people spread out and started to commute. Now, since gas prices are going higher, i've wondered if it will come to a point where people move closer to cities, or even into them. If america was laid out like Europe, we wouldn't have this problem, as more people could be able to walk, bicycle, or take a train to work. That's another thing, public transportation in the States sucks, while it works in cities, alot of people live in suburbs.

Yeah, it is promising, but the other problem is for mass-power. Coal factories can't be replaced by hydrogen factories, that is a good idea, but it would take 100 years or more to completely revamp factories and homes to comply with each other.

I think that a solution for power to homes, cities, etc. needs to be found more than a solution to automobile fuel. But both are very, very important.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Leading sociologists are predicting a return of the population to the cities over the next 25 years (it already has begun), so your presumption is correct

Nuclear fusion is going to be the way to go. Immense power, safer safe than fission (not that fission isn't safe), less waste and the waste doesn't stay radioactive for more than a decade.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Good to hear i'm not a ranting lunatic. :p

:nodding: yup. I definetly think it is the best option right now, as it is already in place, tested, capable, and logical.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Hopefully the "pressure" of limited reosurces will help speed up any efforts being made for alternative energy sources. This really should have been done earlier, rather then right when we're about to run out :p

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Well, the current estimates put it from 2000-2040. As you know, we are in 2005, that means we are in the "oh shit" time period. From what i researched last year, most scientists put the period of peak oil at around 2018 or 2024, with oil running out by 2050 or so. My guess is peak oil being reached in 2010 and oil running out in 2034 or a year around there. I will be in my 40's, as will alot of people in here...so whatever happens, its our generation that is going to get whatever happens with the situation.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

So we're not "generation x" anymore, awesome http://www.gamingforums.com/images/s...rcastic%29.gif although "oh shit" sounds appropriate to me.
Great, just what our generation needs more pressure. :uhoh:

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

We still have a ton of oil any way you look at it. There is billions of gallons in Alasaka, even more still in the ocean and in the middle east. The prices would plummit if we had a few more refineries and oil was sold at face value per barel(about $1.50 per barrel for the saudies)

Fusion is decades away, yet we have an almost endless supply of wind, solar, and nuclear(fission) power. France makes %60 of its power from Nuclear fission. People are may to skittish about nuclear power. The only 1 serious accidents(Chenobal) out of thousands of years of combined operation scared all the Americans away from it along with 3 mile island.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

The point is to get us prepared now so we aren't hit with gas prices that are just unaffordable for the general public.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Well, knowing Bush, he'll probably invade Saudi Arabia and then install ExxonMobile and have them start pumping oil. Either that, or they'll start doing that in Iraq once the violence stops.

Re: World running out of time for oil alternatives
 

Yes, but unless something happens, the world isn't slowing down as far as consumption, nor population. You know that Americans won't sell their trucks or SUV's until they are forced to, as well as China's population growth, and...the worlds as well. This means that oil consumption isn't going to slow down anytime soon, and yes...our generation (the people born in 1985/86-1992/95) will be in the working force when this happens.

I know there are pockets of oil still out there, but the question is...how much oil will be harvested, how much will enviromentalists play a factor, and will this country take over the Middle east just for Oil, and maybe Venezuela?

The point is, oil is drying up, and when the discovery of new oil pockets stops and the need for oil keeps rising, we will have the term known as "peak oil." From there, prices will reach record highs across the world. As in $30 per gallon near the end of oil imports. Hopefully by that time, we will have an alternative.

And for the last time, the alternative is not "more oil" or "more places with oil" because there are very few left.