World running out of time for oil alternatives

[Blood n Guts]

Originally Posted by Nederbörd

In school some guy who was visiting us and giving us a lesson (a real one in school) about the enviorement said that the Arabian Peninsula states would shift to Fuel Cells and Hydrogen technoligy (spelling?) because the don't want to lose the place as ''world fuel supplier''. They want a continued flow of money.

Who knows. Maybe in 30-40 years Iceland and New Zealand will be the new Bahrain and Quatar.

We've got a great supply of hydrogen off our coast here in the US (and anyone can make hydrogen from water with a little electricity, or derive it from natural gas), the problem is that deriving hydrogen from sources other than water would result in a net gain in the amount of water on the planet. Ultimately, that would end up being an even bigger problem than global warming. When we change from fossil fuels to an alternate in the future, whenever the hell that happens, we've got to make sure that we do it right.

Originally Posted by X-C

I have a question, I don't know anything about hydrogen. Can hydrogen be made using water from the ocean?

Doesn't it seem like a stupid idea to use water from our fresh lakes? The hydrogen we would consume would be ten times more than the water we normally drink in a day I think. I don't really know anything about hydrogen cars so I might be talking out my ass. Someone please explain this concept to me.

Yes it is possible. You make hydrogen from water through the process of hydrolysis (literally meaning spliting water). You do this by running an electric current through it. The H2O molecules split, giving you H2 (hydrogen) and O2(Oxygen). Since ocean water is still chemically H20 (with salt mixed it with it), it is perfectly possible. In fact salt increases the conductivity of water, thus making it more effecient to make hydrogen from ocean water than lake water.

[LIGHTNING [NL]]

Originally Posted by X-C

I have a question, I don't know anything about hydrogen. Can hydrogen be made using water from the ocean?

Doesn't it seem like a stupid idea to use water from our fresh lakes? The hydrogen we would consume would be ten times more than the water we normally drink in a day I think. I don't really know anything about hydrogen cars so I might be talking out my ass. Someone please explain this concept to me.

Hydrogen is H2, a gas under normal circumstances. It's made by electrolysis of water H2O. During this electrolysis hydrogen and oxygen are made. You can use hydrogen to power vehicles in two ways, as fuel for a normal combustion engine, or by a fuel cell. Both end products are water, so you don't use up any water at all and you don't change the water levels either.

[JaKoB 88]

Can you create hydrogen from the water in the ocean? That seems like a good idea in my opinion. Filter out all the nasty salt and other minerals and take just the water.

[Blood n Guts]

Salt allows for better conductivity in the water, so it is actually better to do hydrolysis with salt water (salt water is still H2O, it just has salt mixed in with it).

[Anlushac11]

My car is ready to run on E-85 and my two Mustangs will be E-85 compatible when done. I am assuming that the 15% petroleum fuel will be synthetic by then.

Heck lets just run pure grain alcohol with a flame color additive.

[[CoUk]niu]

Originally Posted by *SW3D3*

Why?
Noone can force me to give money to those countries. Or accept that they should get oil."

Oh yes,someone can.Ever heard about taxes?

"And I can tell you, next year when the "right" side won the election I can promise you that you will see some changes, in this country!"

Don`t hold your breath waiting for them,changes will be slow and most likely not carried out fully until a rightish government gets voted out 4 years later just as last time.Unfortunately.

The western world found it first. Finders keeps it, unless you are preperd to sell.....expensive.

Finding it has very little to do with who gets to buy it,it`s up to those who sit on the oil.

[Phoenix_22]

World running out of time for oil alternatives

heh, no shit.

The time to start developing alternative fuels or power sources was during the 80's. During the 8-'s a couple of hybrid-esque and electric cars, along with a couple other ones showed up as well, however in the 90's they faded away. From what i recall, the 90's were all about solar power, but that didn't work out as well as expected. Most governments failed to properly manage the development and funding for alternative fuel and power source research.

A couple options now are:

Ethanol: A quick fix, to be blunt. It only improves the vast petroleum problems slightly, and while it is promising and the most used right now, it isn't fit to solve all problems.

Hydrogen: Alot of media around this idea. While it is a brilliant idea, its been poorly developed in overall affordability. Its expensive as hell and if there was a gasoline-sized tank on it, it would be the entire length of the car. Its my personal favorite, the most promising, and the right alternative, but it needs help...and hopefully help will come.

Gas/Electric hybrids: Good for now, like ethanol, but not the right thing in the long run. While it improves gas consumption by up to 40%, it is still a work-in-progress, and people seem to think this is the solution to the problem. I support hybrids, but they are underpowered, and expensive. Two things that Americans do not want.

Nuclear Power: Powerful, plentiful, and a great solution to factory oil consumption. The problem is, its nuclear power, and that means alot of nuclear waste, as well as dangerous reliability numbers.

Solar Power: Has been in the world for quite a while, but it hasn't produced what the original ideas proposed. As of right now, there are no production vehicles that run on solar power, and while it does help in alot of places, its not the ultimate solution. It has paid off well in a couple European countries, and it has paid off for a couple homes around the U.S., including a tax break for people willing to use solar power in Florida.

Wind Power: Good for windy, rural areas, and well...nowhere else. Where they are right now, they work well, but propsed ideas like the ones for Cape Cod, will not go through because residents don't want giant windmills blocking the view. They are loud and obstructive, and that is their downfall. If those could be fixed, then wind power would be an option.

Hydroelectric Power: Power provided by running water, such as dams. A good idea, but the cost of building a dam is extreme, and that means it can't be used as a solution within the next 10-15 years. It provides a good amount of energy, but you can't build as many as coal factories.

If there are any i missed, tell me.

Our government and the world has neglected to tend to this problem, and the result will be chaos in 10 years. Once gas prices ion the U.S. hit $4 very few will pay it, because they can't afford it, and because they don't have the nerve to "just let it go." The solution should have been found or have been very close to being found, but we are 5 years behind, and there won't be a proper solution until hell breaks loose.

The best solution is nuclear power for mass-electrical power in city areas, with extremly highly regulated restrictions for wastes, Hydrogen for automobiles, and wind power for the rural areas.

[-Ghost-]

Originally Posted by AegenemmnoN

and once we solve those epidemics, let us move on to yet another epidemic- this one moving accross Europe; generalizations and sterotyping.


i vote for water or a water-solar fuel. wont have as much kick, but hell, it could work.

Yes, Fuel Cell cars seem promising, they use hydrogen to power themselves, and the only exhaust they give off is Water vapor. The only sideffect I can see from that is increased humidity and rainy weather. Even if this oil shortage isn't as bad as it seems, I'd rather they start working on a new energy source sooner instead of later...

[Mast3rofPuppets]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_22

Once gas prices ion the U.S. hit $4 very few will pay it, because they can't afford it, and because they don't have the nerve to "just let it go." The solution should have been found or have been very close to being found, but we are 5 years behind, and there won't be a proper solution until hell breaks loose.

The gas costs about 7 dollars per gallon here.

[Blood n Guts]

US $4 per gallon is still less than what the rest of the world pays. We just flip out over gas prices because we're used to them being so much lower, and the best selling vehicle in the US is a truck. $4 per gallon isn't bad, when it hits $6 we'll be on par with current European prices.

Originally Posted by Ghost

Yes, Fuel Cell cars seem promising, they use hydrogen to power themselves, and the only exhaust they give off is Water vapor. The only sideffect I can see from that is increased humidity and rainy weather.

Exactly why we should only derive our hydrogen from water. Even though it's more expensive than deriving it from natural gas or harvesting pure hydrogen, more water would put us in the same place global warming ultimately would.