FileFront Forums

FileFront Forums (http://forums.filefront.com/)
-   The Pub (http://forums.filefront.com/pub-578/)
-   -   Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days. (http://forums.filefront.com/pub/163487-teen-gets-sympathy-court-after-killing-baby-could-released-76-days.html)

Tekk9 December 3rd, 2004 05:45 AM
Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
BY JULIE EDGAR
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER






Selena Jones' murder case was problematic from the start, and during her three-hour sentencing Thursday, it was clear the problems are far from resolved.



Jones, 18, of Detroit was found guilty in May of drowning her full-term baby, a daughter she subsequently named Angel, in a toilet two years ago at Providence Hospital in Southfield. Through tears Thursday, she denied again that she knew she was pregnant and had intended to kill her newborn.



"I'd like you to know I don't think I should be sent to prison," Jones, in jeans and a denim coat lined with faux fur, told the judge. "Not a day goes by that I don't think of my daughter. I went to the hospital for help, not to murder my daughter."



Oakland County Circuit Judge Denise Langford Morris departed dramatically from the sentencing guidelines, which called for a minimum of 7 1/2 to 12 1/2 years, and ordered Jones to spend 2 to 15 years in prison.



With credit for the 654 days she has been on an electronic tether, Jones could be released in 76 days, Assistant Prosecutor John Skrzynski said. He said he would review the legality of giving credit to someone who has been on a tether and that an appeal is possible.



From the start, Jones maintained that she didn't know she was pregnant and never would have gone to the hospital complaining of severe stomach cramps if she had. Her attorney, Warren Harris, argued as much to the jury and objected to allowing the jury to consider a manslaughter conviction.



The eight jurors who wrote letters to the judge afterward might have gone with that charge, they said.



Their letters show they were anguished by the case, telling the judge that they stood by their verdict but wanted leniency for Jones. They cited her age, her confusion the night she went to the Southfield hospital's emergency room and the possibility that she had been overcharged.



One wrote, "I cannot see how state prison is going to help a troubled, now-18-year-old girl."



Two of the jurors showed up at Thursday's sentencing, along with a dozen of Jones' friends and relatives, who cried throughout.



Langford Morris, who said she had never received more than one letter from a juror in her 12 years on the bench, noted repeatedly that the facts of the case were "exceptional."



Before passing sentence, she had a clerk read each of the jurors' letters for the record and then foreshadowed her reasons for departing from the sentencing guidelines. Among them was the testimony of a nurse in the emergency room the night of Oct. 27, 2002, who said she didn't notice Jones' pregnancy when Jones appeared at the hospital with her mother moaning about abdominal pain. The judge also said Jones' age at the time -- 16 --was "exceptional," too, and that the system had let her down.



The judge also castigated Jones' attorney for allowing his emotional ties to the Jones family to cloud his judgment. Harris should have objected to testimony about Jones' abortion at age 14 and should have argued against allowing a videotape showing the dead infant in a hospital crib to be shown to the jurors, the judge said.



"I agree with jurors who said that the defense was not what it should have been," Langford Morris said.



Jones has never spent time in jail but has been tethered electronically. She has not been able to finish school at Henry Ford High School and has done little more than stay in her northwest Detroit home with her mother and go to doctor appointments.



Her mother, Joycelyn Jones, also spoke Thursday, telling the judge that the past two years were the worst of her life.



"I lost my granddaughter," she said quietly. "My daughter Selena is not a murderer. She loves kids. Kids are always around our house."



Langford Morris also ordered that Jones get regular mental health treatment and schooling to enable her to finish high school.



Despite the judge's admonishments, Harris said he was pleased with the sentence. He expects the judge to appoint another attorney to appeal the verdict.

As sheriff's deputies escorted Jones from the courtroom, her hands cuffed behind her, she yelled, "I love you, Mom!"
http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/jones3e_20041203.htm

Mr. Matt December 3rd, 2004 05:56 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
How can you not know when you're pregnant? :confused:

Apocalypse47 December 3rd, 2004 05:56 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
I feel sorry for poor girl as well as her mom.

Tekk9 December 3rd, 2004 06:03 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
They also mentioned this in court, I don't know why they left it out of the article:

Quote:
"If you're trying to say she wanted to get rid of this baby, but instead of getting rid of it the way many do, she goes to a hospital emergency room, sits there for four hours, delivers by herself and then tries to flush this baby in the toilet -- no one really believes that happened," her attorney, Warren Harris, said Monday.

Oakland County Assistant Prosecutor John Skrzynski said evidence will show the baby was born on the floor, and that Jones, who had been hiding the pregnancy, scooped up the live baby, placenta and umbilical cord and tried to flush it all down the toilet -- even as doctors who could have helped stood a few feet away.

LIGHTNING [NL] December 3rd, 2004 06:08 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
That's weird. She shouldn't be send to prison, she should be send to a mental institute...

Admiral Donutz December 3rd, 2004 06:23 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGHTNING [NL]
That's weird. She shouldn't be send to prison, she should be send to a mental institute...
agreed. She surely must have remembered having sex with some guy, if she used her brains she could out the connection between these weird cramps and having sex several months before that.

And even if there was now way of nowing that she was pregnant she could have let the baby be adopted? If you can't care for the baby and didn't know you were pregnant then surely you could sent the kid to a orpheniage or something. Killing your baby is murder wether you knew you where pregnant or not.

If she would have asked her boyfriend to do it i bet he would be sent to prison for years... Just sent her to jail, she might regret everything now but she should have thought of that before she murdered her baby. And drowning is a horrible way to drown. Just gove her the same (mimimum) punishment any person gets for killing their child.

odin84gk December 3rd, 2004 09:12 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGHTNING [NL]
That's weird. She shouldn't be send to prison, she should be send to a mental institute...
She was a dumb woman who panicked. jail.

Nemmerle December 3rd, 2004 09:24 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Regardless of whether she was aware of the pregnancy it does not alter the morality of her subsequent actions.
Same sentencing as normal please.

DavetheFo December 3rd, 2004 10:36 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Jail it should be in my eyes. For a start, I would imagine that you would know you're pregnant. Its kinda obvious after 3 months, but im not sure how far along she was.

Anyone know?

Anyway, as someone said, if the boyfriend had killed it, he would be sitting in jail getting his backside made sore by 'Buster'.

X-C December 3rd, 2004 02:07 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Or Big Bubba, Billy Bean, or The Man. But anyway, if the doctors really watched her suffocate her baby, they should be going to jail too. I am surprised they let her off. No doubt they had a bunch of bleeding hearts in the jury.

Blank Stare December 3rd, 2004 02:16 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-C
Or Big Bubba, Billy Bean, or The Man. But anyway, if the doctors really watched her suffocate her baby, they should be going to jail too. I am surprised they let her off. No doubt they had a bunch of bleeding hearts in the jury.
Hell yeah, People like this should be put in a padded cell, how can you kill a newborn baby? I feel no sympathy for this girl at all

Μαjïç MushrøøM December 3rd, 2004 02:25 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
This is a very exceptional case indeed. Her initial mistake, if this was the case, was to have unprotected sexual intercourse, epsecially before her high school career had reached it's end. Even had her pregnancy not been a mistake, I see little reason for her to be unaware that she is pregnant; I would think that a young lady such as her would be capable of distinguishing between severe stomach cramps and the presence of a baby in her womb.

Nevertheless, I do feel empathy for her. Her life has apparently bee extremely rough for the past couple of years, and she shows much remorse for her illegal actions. It is not uncommon people of this age to panic when caught in these types of situations, and it is likely that she felt there no other way out but an act of desperation. I fully agree that the appropriate solution for this would be to send her to a mental institution to seek treatment. A short prison sentence mey be necessary, but I believe that it might be a bit harsh under the given circumstances. She has her entire life ahead of her to live, and it would be a shame to put a huge black mark on her record with a heavy prison sentence.

X-C December 3rd, 2004 02:28 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
A shame? She killed a living baby. This is even worse than abortion. She isn't insane either. She was a desperate woman who didn't want to take care of her baby, so she is making up a lot of bull so everyone will feel sorry for her.

Μαjïç MushrøøM December 3rd, 2004 02:31 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Perhaps she gave birth to the child without intention, and thus was put into a state of frenzy in deciding the best method by which to handle the situation. This is why I believe that, if anything, a short prison sentence would be sufficient.

Mastershroom December 3rd, 2004 04:09 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
That's just horrible. There is no way she should be getting anything less than an isolated cell for at least ten years, followed by a life in a mental institution. No girl who is capable of such an act deserves any mercy at all. God, she could've given it up for adoption at least. A shitty childhood is better than no childhood (or any life at all).

Μαjïç MushrøøM December 3rd, 2004 04:52 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Young adults often lack the judgement to deal with this type of a situation, and for that I believe that she deserves at least some leniency. If a 35-year-old mother had committed the same crime, then she should be deserving a more severe punishment in my opinion.

Tekk9 December 3rd, 2004 04:53 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
I don't question her mental stability. Just her responsibilty and her respect for human life or lack thereof. She didn't take the right steps to get her abortion and she did it AFTER that baby had been born. There is no state that allows that, I'm sure. She should be locked up with all the other morons in prison. She can come back after 10 years. Maybe she'll have grown up a bit. A padded cell might be good in a mental institution but she was perfectly capable of understanding the situation and the seriousness of her crime. I'm sorry I can't say the same for this jury......

NiteStryker December 3rd, 2004 04:57 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
She went to the hospital for help but drowned her daughter?

Drownning by someone else isnt accident.

I say she outta be hung or taken to a firing squad.

Yannick December 3rd, 2004 04:57 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
For petes sakes, she threw he baby down a toilet. doesnt such rash behaviour deserve punishment? i dont care how mental, scared or worried she was.

Blank Stare December 3rd, 2004 05:18 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by _blitZkRiEG_
For petes sakes, she threw he baby down a toilet. doesnt such rash behaviour deserve punishment? i dont care how mental, scared or worried she was.
Exactly, You people are idiots if you feel sorry for her. She's making bull up, "i was so scared, I didn't know what to do Wha wha!" That is no excuse for drowning an innocent infant in a toilet.

Col Jimmy Emeric December 3rd, 2004 10:41 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordmaster9
Exactly, You people are idiots if you feel sorry for her. She's making bull up, "i was so scared, I didn't know what to do Wha wha!" That is no excuse for drowning an innocent infant in a toilet.
but its kinda hard to judge a case when only given a page of text we dont know what all went on in the court. I do think she deserves some kind of punishment but i dont know what would fit this crime

Yannick December 3rd, 2004 10:45 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Kill a new-born by throwing it down a loo deserves years imprisionment to me.

Cataphract December 3rd, 2004 10:47 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
A shame? She killed a living baby. This is even worse than abortion. She isn't insane either. She was a desperate woman who didn't want to take care of her baby, so she is making up a lot of bull so everyone will feel sorry for her.

I say she outta be hung or taken to a firing squad.

I can't stand it when people like X-C and NiteStryker make judgments in these sort of cases. They automatically assume (1) the person had full knowledge of what he/she was doing and did it because he/she was an 'evildoer', and (2) all 'evildoers' deserve to die.

An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind.

Can we please stop assuming the worst about people? I admit that even I think she knew what she was doing. But her mind wasn't completely clear in what she was doing. She didn't kill her baby in cold-blood- it's not like she carefully planned it out. She panicked and did the wrong thing.

I'd say a case like hers requires less than a life sentence. No mental institution is required (she's not insane).
NO DEATH PENALTY!

Μαjïç MushrøøM December 3rd, 2004 10:54 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataphract
I can't stand it when people like X-C and NiteStryker make judgments in these sort of cases. They automatically assume (1) the person had full knowledge of what he/she was doing and did it because he/she was an 'evildoer', and (2) all 'evildoers' deserve to die.

An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind.
It is a very typical answer from those with a very conservative mentality, Cataphract, and is also often an easy solution to such a situation.

NiteStryker December 3rd, 2004 11:00 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataphract
A shame? She killed a living baby. This is even worse than abortion. She isn't insane either. She was a desperate woman who didn't want to take care of her baby, so she is making up a lot of bull so everyone will feel sorry for her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataphract
I say she outta be hung or taken to a firing squad.

I can't stand it when people like X-C and NiteStryker make judgments in these sort of cases. They automatically assume (1) the person had full knowledge of what he/she was doing and did it because he/she was an 'evildoer', and (2) all 'evildoers' deserve to die.
(1) SOmeone doesnt 'accidentially' drown a baby dude...its a physical act.
(2) Why dont they? She killed an infant, why does she deserve to live?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataphract
An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind.
Thats why they invented brail :lol:

*Only a liberal would say that statement, BTW :D *

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataphract
Can we please stop assuming the worst about people? I admit that even I think she knew what she was doing. But her mind wasn't completely clear in what she was doing. She didn't kill her baby in cold-blood- it's not like she carefully planned it out. She panicked and did the wrong thing.
It doesnt matter. She killed. I dont care if she was stoned off her ass or if she couldnt be thinking clearer. She outta be put down. Mabey hang her infront of a firing squad :nodding:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataphract
I'd say a case like hers requires less than a life sentence. No mental institution is required (she's not insane).
NO DEATH PENALTY!
Good to know that in your eyes, an infant can perish at the hands of a moron and you would allow her to walk free after awhile. Remind me never to face you in a court of law. If you ever become a judge, you will work for the 9th Circut Court of Appeals in San Fransisco, T-H-E most liberal court in the world.

Cataphract December 3rd, 2004 11:13 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
If you ever become a judge, you will work for the 9th Circut Court of Appeals in San Fransisco, T-H-E most liberal court in the world.

There you go again, assuming that the US is the only country in the World! Haha. Gotcha.

Μαjïç MushrøøM December 3rd, 2004 11:13 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
There is nothing wrong with liberalism. The problem is that conservatives have made every effort possible to given it a bad name.

Apart from that, an infanticide, just like any other murder, does not necessarily make legitament for a second (human) to be murdered. Do two wrongs make a right? Or, does the fact that she murdered an infant make it the state's right to murder her?

Cataphract December 3rd, 2004 11:17 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
You could make a case for Hammurabi's Code (an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, etc) by appealing to Personal Desert, but no one (not even conservatives) argue for this. If conservatives used Personal Desert to argue the death penalty here, they would have to face the fact that Market Capitalism does not follow Personal Desert, and would have painted themselves into a trap.

Chubbs December 3rd, 2004 11:36 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
I would be happy if she has her uterus removed. That way she can screw as much as she wants:hump:, and not have to kill another baby. that way we all win :cheers:

And cataphract, are you saying we should try to get her drowned in a toilet? (sorry that was a bad one)

Cataphract December 3rd, 2004 11:39 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Haha. No.

X-C December 4th, 2004 04:29 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Cata, I am not saying she deserves the death penalty, or even life. I want her to get at least ten years. But am I wrong to assume she is just lying?

Sorry, you have to be mentally retarded to not know you are pregnant, or that the living thing that just fell out of your body is a baby. She is not mentally retarded, and she is perfectly stable. Anyone can lie. She is lying. This has nothing to do with my conservatism. Stop bringing politics up in every post. You are no worse than what you claim to despise. You automatically assume you know what my real intentions are.

I do not believe in an eye for an eye in all cases, and this is not one of them. I do believe in punishment though. Here in America, we do not let people get away with crimes without punishment, unless they flee and are never found. This is no exeption to the rule.

Tekk9 December 4th, 2004 05:25 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
She should be charged with manslaughter which is killing someone without intent. I think it's 10-15 years in prison and it's just enough time for her to gain a level of responsibility. Hopefully with age she matures to a level where she's fit to live within the confines of the law. Not to just find herself in a situation which is inconvenient and then do the DUMBEST of things and cry about it later.

Grimme December 4th, 2004 05:50 AM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Matt
How can you not know when you're pregnant? :confused:
Some woman thought she'd ate a dodgy sausage and it was a child. Every so often women get pregnant but do not show. Quite bizaare. They says it's because it lies very low in the womb so it is near the pelvis...

NiteStryker December 4th, 2004 07:55 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs

And cataphract, are you saying we should try to get her drowned in a toilet? (sorry that was a bad one)
I wish he was, thats not a bad idea :D

JizzyB December 4th, 2004 08:07 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
I'm so confused...

Nemmerle December 4th, 2004 08:11 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cataphract
An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind.
Have you ever stopped to think what that actually means? It makes a stronger case for 'an eye for an eye' than against it.

Cataphract December 4th, 2004 11:36 PM
Re: Teen gets sympathy from court after killing baby, could be released in 76 days.
 
Cata, I am not saying she deserves the death penalty, or even life. I want her to get at least ten years. But am I wrong to assume she is just lying?

Sorry. I just can't stand cynicism. I grew up surrounded by cynics, and I learned to resent people's assumptions about other people. I don't want to be one of those people who (along with the rest of society) thumbs his nose on what turns out to be a good man. Sometimes society as a whole rushes to judgment. Sometimes I hate society, even though I love certain people within it.

There isn't always an ulterior motive to everything someone does. Sometimes it's just happenstance.

Have you ever stopped to think what that actually means? It makes a stronger case for 'an eye for an eye' than against it.

Huh?


All times are GMT -7.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.