Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Very well. Expansionist wars have been made against the following countries.
Syria, Jordan, Palestine (Jerusalem), Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Iran, all of North Africa, some parts of India and China, and later Spain.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

See, religion isnt a topic for the closed minded. Anyone who says 'they're wrong' and think that its 100% true cant talk about it.

1) Jediism is not a religion, its a little ficticious skill or whatever. Star Wars man, 70's movies.

2) We are muslims, dont say that we worship a God that Doesnt exist- we beleive in Allah/God and we worship him, how do you know it isnt true? Think of science, they have theories, hypothesises that cannot be prooved- religion has certainties where proof lies everywhere. Eg. Miracles- The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) Was illiterate, how would he ever be able to write the unfalliable and unchallenged ultimate book, the Qur'an?

Many of us have different beleifs which we are entitled to, it is wrong to infringe upon anyone's or insult and disregard anyones.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

you need to name them, not name random countries. muslims are fighting themselves? (middle east countries), oh indians also killed muslims, and Islam went into Asia by trade! no war!

EDIT: ok i see what you mean now Ged, your veiweing the page so i will fix what i was going ot now...

by expansionist wars. you mean the ones where Muslims went to egypt syria, arab countries, ans spain to LIBERATE them from Persians, and Romans? Back then romans did kill christians and muslims liberated and saved them.

and when muslims(egypt), won the last battle aginst the Evil Gengis Khan and his Tartar forces, Almost all of his soliders turned muslim, and he brothers turned muslims, Im not sure about gengis khan himself, but that is also one of thje way Islam went in asia.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I am afraid at the fact that so many people are losing their faith in their religions(Christians,Hindus,ewtc.).If Allah ,Mohammed ,and even Jesus or Moses were just normal human beings then from where did the Quran or the Bible came?They didn't come outta nowhere .I don't know WTF is Jediisim.Those who speak of them are lunatics.I think Expansionist wars were also started by Christians.Muslims in Bangladesh ask each other questions(mainly rich people)is there any Allah?Science came from religion.Muslim scientists of the ancient time studided living creatures etc.They found out the parts inside a cow.They learned how to navigate during sea voyages.Etc,etc.you should read a translated version of the Quran.Then you will know.

FACT:Allah said that if we follow His simple rules we go to heaven and get whatever we want.(Even beautiful girls)

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

people will take this is muslims loving to have sex or soemthing.
it is not part of our religion to have sex as a habbit in our lives. we dont have OPEN sex in our countries that is why muslim countries dont have a high AIDS percentage.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Here’s some of what I was referring to

This one (the burning of the library) I see as one of the greatest crimes ever committed. Who knows what knowledge was lost to us?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

By the way- pardon my error, i was really tired- i meant the prophet (PBUH)'s wife Khadija.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

allright i didnt read all that stuff ebcause it was too much. i read the battle names. AGAIN, ROMANS RULED NORTH AFRIKA AND OTHER PARTS AROUND IT! AND THEY USED TO SLAUGHTER CHRISTIANS AND JEWS. PERSIANS ALSO HAD A GREAT EMPIRE AND THEY ALSO SLAYED CHRISTIANS OR JEWS! and we sieged those cities/countries and liberated them, as much information as you are going to give about muslims being fanatical, there is something wrong, even the Libraray of alexandria, NAPOLEON, yes him the short stupid french general burned it, and he attacked The Sphinx and broke his nose, and he also attacked the Great Pyramid(big one) and destroyed the top, the pig, was lucky that he didnt finish off the whole thing.

Conclusion: Napolean, burned the great library of alexander.
ROME and PERSIA and MONGOLS ruled alot of parts of the world and did bad actions aginst the inhabitants of the countries(jerusalim, killing christians and jews, etc)

BTW: it took you forever to quote all those is it an Online book? or did you type this up from another book? what book is it called?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I was uh "preaching".You are correct sorry made a mistake.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

The Library of Alexandria was burned centuries ago. It was not Napoleon. Hitler is the one that attacked the Sphinx and the Great Pyramid not Napoleon. Just to put your view of history straight.

You don't liberate countries by murdering millions of people and force them to join Islam. That is like the United States going to Iraq and saying they are now christian. Don't say that innocent millions weren't killed. All three major religions killed millions in order to spread there religion, even Muslims. They also have peaceful ways of doing it (missionaries) but back in the days warfare and force was the perfered choice.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

mohammed both taught and practiced violence from the begining.....islam was spread with the sword

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Did he say Napoleon did that? And it's Caesar who burned the Library the first time :(.

Edit, woops, I thought you were taking about Ged, my mistake.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

they werent 'forced' into being muslims, they wantyed to convert to the religion of there liberators. and it WAS napoleon that did this, hitler never was in egypt, the only battle in egypt was El alamien, which was in the northwest part of wgypt, around Marsa Matrouh, Rager, you woldnt know any thing about islam, and no one here does, all you people do is post things from the Qur'an as 'proof' for violence, Yes we are violent when we are attacked and we will be violent when we are forced to fight back.

Caesar DID burn it, but then napoleon did it again.

im going ot have to say NO again, we did not murder millions, we liberated them from Romans, and persians, and mongolians, and again, we did not force them to join islam. it is catholics that slaughter muslim sin pphilipines, it is christians that slaughtered musims in Bosnia. (btw: this thread will never stop, and this will go on forever.

oh and i dont think R4AG3R is 49 years old :rolleyes: , i never seen an adult talk so ignorantly like that.

EDIT: forgot to add that you guys need to read history befor you start running your mouths off like that. read from a reliable book or site, dont go to some site that is www.muslimsareviolent.com and tell this is where you go the Info. and explain to me why we still have Christians and Jews in arab countries? and why are there still alot of people ocnverting to the religion of violence:rolleyes:, they arent forced with a sowrd are they?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Do note that the term 'liberate' is very subjective. The Macedonians 'liberated' them from the Egyptian farao's, the Romans 'liberated' them from Ptolemaeus... Often, one surpressor takes the place of the old one in the history of man. Orwell has some interesting thoughts about this in '1984'.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

ok, so we shouldve left the christians and jews of the middle east at that time, to be thrown to lions, and killed right? (yes, romans did throw christians to lions for entertainment), if so, why does america have to liberate iraqies? why not leave them die?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I think most of the history is from a book called "The Rightly Guided Caliphs" by Dr. Abu Zayd Shalabi.

Edit: 'ok, so we shouldve left the christians and jews of the middle east at that time, to be thrown to lions, and killed right? (yes, romans did throw christians to lions for entertainment), if so, why does america have to liberate iraqies? why not leave them die?'

Read all of the quotes. These were not wars of liberation (And as SpiderGoat says liberation is very subjective).

Edit 2: 'and explain to me why we still have Christians and Jews in arab countries? and why are there still alot of people ocnverting to the religion of violence, they arent forced with a sword are they?'

Edit 3: I would also like to thank that site for posting large sections of Dr. Abu Zayd Shalabi's book so I didn’t have to type it up from my copy. Thanks guys, you saved me a lot of typing :)

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

- the last roman emperor dies in 565 CE
- the Prophet is born in 571 CE
...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

oh no, i am not sure when the last emperor died, but There was a Hercules(not the demi-god).

this is all bull-crap, there are around 18 million christians in egypt, i got to go so i will explain later, dont answer this yet...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Before you answer, (and feel free to correct me if this isn’t what you mean.)
But, I take it you are referring to them having once been followers of Islam and then having converted to Christianity? Sorry, doesn’t make any difference, it was still wrong.
(You do notice it is mentioned in the quote why their execution was demanded 'because of their apostasy from Islam')

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

" you woldnt know any thing about islam, and no one here does"- in particular. Islam teaches to be humble and open minded- but 'you wouldnt know anything about that' would you.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh.... The mayhem.

Religion is not violent. The corrupt followers are.

People CAN know stuff about Islam without being Islamic. What you said, my dear friend, is very offensive and mean.

For instance, I know some stuff about Hindu from knowing a bunch of Hindu people (Anyone see a mean Hindu girl? I haven't, I think it's a conspiricy...) So, someone can learn about Islam without being Muslim.

And I see you are quick to blame the Christians for everything...so Goddamned typical. Just because your a friggin Muslim doesn't mean your a Goddamned do-gooder. I am VERY pissed off now, thank you very much. If your so tolerant and perfect and good, please explain to us, who are so unworthy of life, why you are being strangley hippocritical now!

It's unfair. It's rude. Whenever anything goes wrong nowadays, Christians get to be the scapegoat. Unless it's America, than we blame either Bush or Muslims, and the circle of scapegoatism goes around and around until we all hate each other. If your all so great, show me your worthy of any ounce of respect I can muster and make peace with the other side.

Getting hard to tell which side to be on here... on one side, I have a dog pile on a reletively peaceful religion that I know has respectable and kind people from meeting them, and on the other side, a stereotype against my own beliefs.

Oh, and about the 'they weren't forced to be Muslims' arguement, perhaps you are right, BUT if those same guys converted away from Islam, be a man and admit you'd say differently.

Honest, I am seriously * <=this close to resorting to calling everyone an 'infidel' except for DarthMaul, who I would call something that you all know is a cruel thing to call Muslims.


Ignorance is everywhere, but if it's bliss, why the Hell are we all so depressed?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Hitlers Nazi's were in all of Egypt. They didn't get supplies so they were didn't have many battles. They had to play it defencively and use the enemies supplies. They ingraved swasticas and other Nazi propaganda into the ancient ruins in order to make the 3rd Riech look like it was around for centuries. They used the Sphinx and the Great pyramid for target practice before they were short on supplies; when they though that they were the greatest thing ever. There are still pictures of the Giza platue intact (including primitive motion pictures). They didn't have cameras during Napoleons time.

Muslims fight between themselves. Different Clans kill each other, different sects kill each other, different Muslim races kill each other, different ethnicities kill each other; why do you think it is so hard for Muslims to kill people who are not Muslim, do not have a clan, is not even a sect, is a different race, and a different ethnicity? As I said before all of the three major world religions forced others to join there religion. It has also been said that "liberators" is the definition victors give themselves to make them look less bad. Remember whoever makes the definition has the power. Definition becomes reality even if it is false.

I have respect for the religion of Islam and its teaching but it is fact there is violence in every religion with the end result of spreading it (even as conqueors not liberators). Denying it is just showing how blind people can be. Every nation that has power seeks more power simple as that. If the nation is based on Islam all the nations they conqueor will be based on Islam as well.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Ow my dear boy... Muslims entered the scene of history in the 7th century AD. A lot had happened since Nero (54-68) had lighted up christians.

First: the Western Roman Empire had fallen. It was seperated from the Eastern Part in 395 AD, and Romulus Augustulus was removed from the throne in 476 by the barbarian Odoaker.

Second: THE ROMANS WERE CHRISTIANS. Constantijn began, with the declaration that christianity was the official state religion (313, after his victory in 312). After him, Theodosius, declared it to be THE only religion of the empire in 390 AD. So, according to you, the Christians were throwing fellow believers into the pit in the 7th century?

Third: the Romans didn't throw jews for the lions, except when they were christians. Though they dispised the nature of their religion (one God), and destroyed Jerusalem, they were not thrown to the beasts. In fact, after Massada (a jewish fortress, besieged and conquered by the Romans), one Flavius Josephus - one of the few survivors - became a favorite of the emperor, and went of to write several historical works. He didn't end up in the Colosseum, now did he?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

There have been survivors at Massada? I thought they all died in a collective suicide.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Most of the surviving zelots killed themselves before the Romans broke through, yes, but Josephus and a few of his friends eventually decided not to do it. :)

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

ok.

My parents dont own a gun.
we dont own an assult rifel.
we dont have bombs.
they never taught me to kill.
they never told me to be violent.
they told me to stay ourt of violence and trouble.

oh and all you guys kept on saying the crusaders were back in time. well you know what? same as what you say the muslims did. it was even befor the crusades, so i guess this is out-of-picture like you all said.

USA1: i wasnt the one going around makign fun of christians or spreading lies or hating them. it is you and other people that started a thread aginst my religion(well not really you, buy you said i made yo ulook bad or something aginst your rleigion), Logic when did muslims kill each other? and did you forget the catholics killed christians too?

Conclusion:
I wasnt being Rude towards anyone religion.
It is other people that made this thread agint my religion Islam, and we are called Muslims ,not Islamists.
I try and try to tell you the truth about the muslims that live NOW. and you wont learn(Ged), you still believe that we all are violent, and you wont listen.
I didnt say anythign about Muslims being so peacful, and christians, or other religions being violent. most of what you people did was Make it look like muslims and Islam are the ONLY violent people and religion on earth.

EDIT:
USA1 i dont know why are you made when you arent muslim. i dont know why you are made when there isnt a thread called "Christianity- Religion of Violence". no one here said anything about christianity hat would make you mad.

there were no 8 christians in egypt that were imprisoned, or had ot be executed, we live with christians normally. but here in america peopel think of you diffrently and wrongfully if you are a muslim. and you go to prison for no reason, with no trial for over 2 years.(*Guatnamo Bay)

(I am typing this from the English/Arabic Qur'an i have)

Surah 109. Al Kafirun

In the Name of allah the most Gracious and Merciful

1. O Ye the Reject Faith.
2. I worship not that Ye worship.
3. Nor will ye worship That which i worship
4. And i will not worship That which ye have been wont worship.
5. Nor will ye worship that which i worship.
6. To be your way, and to be mine.

even look in the qur'an you have. what this Verse means, is that you have your own religion, and i have my own(no one is being forced into islam here).

and to study/read the Qur'an you need to know arabic. because when the Qur'an is translated into a diffrent language, some of th emeanning is lost. most muslims that convert to islam, learn the language, and read it.

Any one here ever heard of the Singer Cats Stevens?

EDIT: i didnt kno whow to Merge posts, can an admin do it?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I would think that it would be pretty obvious by now that people do things in the name of their religion that are actually against their own religion (ie terrorism, murdering others not of their faith, or murdering people of their own faith).

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

But they are being prevented from leaving it. as the law goes I believe, 'If they leave Islam then they are to be asked to repent, failing that they are to be put to the sword' I forget the exact wording of the law but it was along those lines.
Leaving Islamic beliefs you can either repent or die.
Also let us not forget the taxes levied against people who did not follow the Qur’an: ‘Choose for yourself either Islam or the poll-tax or the sword.’

Besides its a contradiction I wont worship Islamic beliefs and yet it says 'And i will not worship That which ye have been wont worship.'

Now to be fair here, you did ASK for some battles that Muslims have started. And I provided you with some.
A religion that promotes the execution of people, who decide to leave, is in no way shape or form peaceful.
Now look at the Qur’an, lets look at this book Muslims ARE meant to follow.

We know that even this verse cannot apply to a defensive war, and there are many others that do not apply to defensive war.
Thus we are left with but one chilling conclusion: The Qur’an promotes violence.
Mohamed even promoted violence; from his mouth came promises of plunder 'You see, God will soon make you inherit their land, their treasures and make their women’s beds for you'. It is mentioned in the Qur’an 'Allah promises you much booty that you will capture' (48:20)…

Orders for an expansionist war, promises of huge plunder, taxes against those who did not follow the belief, and followers kept in line by the threat of execution. Can you call that a peaceful religion?
And if I described it to you without telling you it was Islam, I wonder what you would have thought it was.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Dude, you need to look at the wider picture. Just because your family is non-violent, doesnt mean that all other Muslims are. Recent increase in violence have been definatly caused by Muslim extremists. And you say that you wasnt being rude to other religions- Not true you hipocrite. You insulted my religion in every post you made:mad:
I still dont hate you, because I am not like you. I dont respond with violence toward violence.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

read all my posts, i only started talking aginst your religion in the lat 2 pages, because YOU were being rude towards me. and yes ALOT of muslims families ar enon violent EXCEPT those who dont follow islam's teaching wisely.(Terrorists, Bin Laden, Etc.) yes, i do i hate them because it led to you and ged to thinking that islam is violent, this is why i hate them, and Ged, Yes, there were Offensive battles. so? that was centuries ago and it dosent count.

Vladtemplar, you speak of violence when you are actually a solider, so this goes aginst you.

Ged, every one is forced to pay taxes. and Muslims pay an extar thing you ofcourse never heard of. it is called Zaka. the money you stored in a bank for over a year EVERY year you have to take out 2.5% of it and pay it to the poor. and Muslims, love thir religion so much, that no one ever leaves it(maybe 10-100 a year or even less), no one is forced in or out, r threatened in or out. an american girl just came to the mosque a couple of months ago and converted to islam. a Muslim turned Athiest, and no one killed him, and he came back to islam, a couple of months after.

Ok...

Vladtemplar, you call me a hypocrate when i wasnt the one who made a thread attacking YOUR religion.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Look at it this way, because his family is non-violent, that means other could be too.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

No, the Qur'an and history led me to find Islam violent.
Yes centuries ago, when the Qur’an was being written and directly after.
Mm, in my country you don’t have to pay a belief tax. Let me put this another way; should we ask people to pay an extra tax because of the colour of their skin? I think the answer is rather obviously: No. We should not ask people to pay a tax on their belief unless they choose to do so (not under duress) anymore than we should have them pay for their skin colour or anything else they cant really change that easily.
An admirable thing to do; however they CHOOSE to do so.
A nice story no doubt; however, if the powers that be had followed Islamic law he would either be dead or would have taken up an offer of repentance and returned to Islamic ways.
An interesting point to note here is that Islamic law makes no distinction between people born into Islam and people who convert to Islam from another religion. Under the Islamic laws they would both have the same stark choices if they choose to leave Islamic ways.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

That was in the past, as you can see (you just siad it in your post), they don't do that to people anymore. Islam is not the only religion to offer harsh punishments for those who leave the faith -- in the Spanish Inquisition, for instance, people were tortured if they would not confess to straying from the strict guidelines of the Church, wether they actually did or not.

And what about the Quaran makes you think it promotes violence? Some quotes would be nice...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

he already quoted some verses that did promote Violence BACK THEN. and about the extra taxes i already said, no one pays these anymore.

to add to the nice stories, a girl in america, was playing basketball in here team(she was muslim) and she had her scarff on, and they sued her for it :rolleyes: , and she won the case. what the hell do the french and america want muslim girls to take there scarffs off? they want to have dignity and not walk around half naked.

Edit:

Raghead? Terrorist? OSAMA?, i dont really care whatever you call me.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Gah! NO VIOLENT RELIGIONS TODAY!

The last one was the Norse religion, long since dead. There is NO 'Religion of violence'. There is NO passage in the Koran or however you spell it, that states "The Jews, Christians, and Hindus all suck, so go kill them and then see me". There is NO central religious organization, ie the Vatican or it's equivalents, that tell the people to go kill everyone else, so why don't we all just be friggin happy and let the world collectively sleep in? Geez.


@ DarthMaul, I wasn't mad a YOU specifically, it probably seemed that way because the "Catholics in the Phillipenes' line is what finally made me think "This is just too much"

Before that, there was a ton of ignorance going on in the thread, and I tried to ignore it. If it seems unfair, I suppose I apologize.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

sorry if i was wrong or anything that i said was offensive. but you see what the conditions are here.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Yes, and I am unsettled. I agree with you, most of the time, actually. Just my views on religion are seperate.

@ everyone: Try not to be brutal in attempting to disprove other people's ideas. Knock it off with the destructive reasoning, we don't need it. And would someone change the thread title? It's beginning to bug me.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Technically Shintoism as well.

The Vikings were not as bloodythirsty or sadistic as source [primarily Christian] portray them to be...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

What you gotta realise is- the Qur'an DOESNT promote violence. Many of those quotes are taken out of context and the entire meaning is changed. Its like the media, lets say someone says 'I dont feel as if I am promoting terrorism" or something and it is cut to 'I am promoting terrorism'. Or if they say 'It is ok to fight if its in self defense' and you change it to 'it is ok to fight' or whatever. Look at the whole picture- most of Muhammad (PBUH)'s wars were faught in self defence. Muslims are taught to forgive and forget, eg The Caliph Umar was originally a rival of the Prophet (PBUH) and Islam. You cannot just find an e-book of the Qur'an and quote randomly, that is biased and closed minded.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

The Viking religion wasn't as violent as most think. It says taht brave warriors will go to Valhala but that doesn't nessisarily mean that they go to war just to get there. Being brave in the face of danger or in life is enough. They did conqueor most of Europe though. They pretty much had to because Norway couldn't support their growing populations.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Yeah. Makes sense. You could say too:
"Just because some muslims are violent, doesn't mean that all muslims are." It works in this direction too. Amazing, no?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I didnt say that all muslims are violent. What I think is that Islam promotes violence as a religion, and it needs to stop

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

you dolt!!! by saying islam is a religion of violence ur basically saying that all muslims are violent!!!!! becasue islam the religion that muslims follow Do some research before posting this kindof crap!!!!

(I apologize to any Islams or Muslims if I have this information wrong)

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Aight man - yeah SOME muslims are violent. But Islam is a religion, a beleif, in fact it is also a way of life. If those Al Qaeda members follow the path of violence- how can they be called muslims? They commit haenous (pardon my spelling) crimes in the name of Allah, you think He is pleased by that? You think WE are pleased by that? Think about it. They ruin it for all of us- look at our reputation.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

They obviosly think they are pleasing Allah by terrorising people

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

yes they do.(the terrorists) butonly those Few Thousands are, thats about it.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

The same thing goes for the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda [The LRA is a Christian rebel group]. They think going village-to-village raping, slaughtering and recruiting child-soldiers is pleasing God, whats the diff?

Any religiously-motivated terrorist or rebel group believes that doing their 'jobs' pleases 'god'. I'm not including the IRA, they were motivated to uniting Ireland and not pleasing the 'lord' by killing innocents.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

thera re a billion muslims i dont think we should generalise the relegion because some fanatics try to interpret quran in a wrong way

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Answer me this. If Islam has a tainted name because of a very insignificant number of extremists, why is every single muslim country worthless to the world except give us a reason to have a strong military and security force. Name islamic countries that are not in constant diress, and are a factor in terrorism, now name me countries that are of "other religions" that are the same.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

what the hell do you mean? are you saying musim countriea are worthless? i hope all muslim scientists in america leave and go back to there muslim countries. i hope all muslim/arab countries stop shipping oil to america(we are screwed if this happens).

btw: did you read any/all pages in this thread? or did you just start to run your mouth off like you know everything?