Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

No, actually he did not try to cover up. I'm searching for a link now.

The Pope has no direct military power. The Swiss guards are *gasp* from Switzerland :nod: They are the sworn guardians of Vatican City, not an offensive force.

EDIT: Here's John Paul the Second, became Pope right after WW2.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mis...handnazis.html General info about the subject

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mis...ca_hitler.html Here's one from the same guy that wrote the last one about Hitler's religious beliefs. I find it interesting.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I agree. Christians behind Crusades, slaughter of innocents in Africa, Asia, South America etc. The thing wrong with Christians is that they believe so blindly that every other religion promotes death and destruction because they are too stuck up their own asses to see past the end of their noses. Islam is a peaceful religion. It promotes understanding between all men and has done since before Christendom first came into contact with them. What do they get in return? Well more than 1,000,000 dead during a Crusades and one massive pile of dead bodies in the so called Holy Lands. Why did they bother trying to reason with the Christian butchers?


You are missing the point my friend !!!!

It is not Islam as a religion that people ( Christians ) dissagre with at all ! It is what is done apparently in the name of Islam that is fround apon.

Islam is as said a friendly peaceful regligion. However dont you think that Islam as a whole should catagorically dissaciosiate themselves with these extreamists who apparently are acting on the peoples wishes / behalves ??

As a Christian myself also as an Englishman I was devistated to see what happened on Sept 11th and what is happening all round the globe today apparently in the name of Islam. Where does this all end ? How many more inncocent people need to die ?? :confused:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Thank you!You told what I tried to tell.The September 11 Attack has also hampered my chances to become an engineer or something or for studing or anything to go to the USA.So I am not a Fan Of Osama Bin Laden.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Thank you!You told what I tried to tell.The September 11 Attack has also hampered my chances to become an engineer or something or for studing or anything to go to the USA.So I am not a Fan Of Osama Bin Laden.

Sept 11th changed the world ! Unfortunatly people tend to tarr everyone with the same brush !

People can not hide behind a sterotype of Islam. Individuals have to prove to the world what they are and what they are all about ! Make people stand up and pay attention !! Not by blowing things up or hurting people but by working hard showing comitment. Trust and respect should be earnt by an individual not by his race or religion people should be free to worship as they feel fit, barriers should not be placed by anyone at all ! No one has the right to do so ! :)

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Unfortunatly, in todays society, actions speak louder than words.

A simple speach condeming islamic terrorist by an Islamic leader will have little impact when compared to a suicide bombing.

Many people are not able to see bast the bad that happens and realise what the good is.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

idealist... :rolleyes: working hard and being committed isn't going to change shit. if you want to make a change you have to take action, not sit around like a pussy and hope that it happens. the americans have their claws in the Middle East and won't let go. this is why people like Osama came forward to fight for their people for their way of life. this corporate imperialism is what causes these people to fight back. the mass media blames Islam because it is too fucking stupid, or assumes it's users/readers are too fucking stupid to understand cause and consequesnce.

rather than:

we are trying to assimilate this culture, and get them to turn over control of their resources to us and they don't like it so they fight it.

we get:

they are Islamic. Islam is bad.

it's pathetic.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

nothing sensible to add, Crash22? :n0e:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

idealist... working hard and being committed isn't going to change shit. if you want to make a change you have to take action, not sit around like a pussy and hope that it happens. the americans have their claws in the Middle East and won't let go. this is why people like Osama came forward to fight for their people for their way of life. this corporate imperialism is what causes these people to fight back. the mass media blames Islam because it is too fucking stupid, or assumes it's users/readers are too fucking stupid to understand cause and consequesnce.

rather than:

we are trying to assimilate this culture, and get them to turn over control of their resources to us and they don't like it so they fight it.

we get:

they are Islamic. Islam is bad.

it's pathetic.


Again Taken out of context !!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I was saying as a person it is better to be able to say from a personal point of view I got here by myself !! my own hard work,my own honesty and commitmet etc rather that some lunatic doing things in my name without any consultaion !!

As for the Middle East do you think that some bearded mother fucker who lives in a cave can force America out ????? If you do you are stupid my friend !!! This Idiot has made the President of the US of A, pay more attention to the middle east instead of forcing him out. American Forign policy is now more focused in that area of the globe than ever before.

All that bollocks about American corporate imperialism made Ossama fight back !! Its bollocks! Ossama has made multi million dollers out of American corporate imperialism hence his and his families involvements with american Oil companies so if this is as said does this not make him nothing but a Hypocrite who has been lining his own pockets !!!!

No one has ever talked about assimilating Islam as a culture this maybe your warped mind bud however im sure the Islamic population of Afganistan and Iraq have more culure and freedoms that before this all took place!! :lookaround:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

We made Osama, so i dont know what bush, and rumsfeld are sad for.

ok here are 3 reasons why alot of muslims hate america. notice i said muslims.

1- Our Presence In Saudi Arabia, and the Middl east.
2- The killings of almost 1 million iraies in a single crusade.
3- ALWAYS backing up Israel, in what it has done, and what it will do.

-Why do we (america) have to lose our allies in europe because of Israel?

-Why is the "religion of violence" the second largest and fastest/most growing religion in the world?(notice i said religion of violence sarcastically)

Other questions that need answers:

Why cant palastinians have freedom?
why cant chechnya gets its freedom?
why can america get freedom?
why can scotland, and ireland get freedom?
why does russia get to keep chechnya, and Iraq cant keep Kuwait? yes, kuwait was part of iraq but england seperated too much arab countries.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

what was taken out of context? please explain.
and i'm not disagreeing with you. it is better, but difficult when faced with a nation such as the US which has the guns, funds and will to fuck you over if you don't do as your told.
ugh. whatever.... hey, do you think soome 'gook' (excuse my language) living in a mud hut in Vietnam can force America out? oh, wait... :confused:

as long as America persists in the occupation and control of Iraq & the Middle East, there will always be people who will fight against it. you think this is a military issue. try thinking outside of the box. this is a financial, monetary control of a nation. control the government, control the nation, control the resources, control the exports.
um... i think you'll find that the US paid Osama to fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan. then, as soon as he didn;t suit their needs or image anymore they dumped him. Osama is a product of American intervention in a region they have no right being involved in. none at all. it's fitting that their lapdog decided to bite the hand that fed it for so long. if you fund & train a terrorist organisation, don't be suprised when that organisation turns against you.

the US is to blame for Osama in ways you haven't the slightest chance of comprehending.
you're right. nobody has and neither have i. i was referring to the assimilation and forced democracy of Iraq, not a religion of over a billion people. a religion has no boundaries, no resources. you cannot control it. you can, however, through force of arms, control a nation...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

http://www.gamingforums.com/gallery/...42111quote.JPG

Crash22, please take head of the above picture.

It contains an image of a very useful button.

It makes life a whole lot easier for everyone if you use it.

Thanks.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

dude thats spam.

no one answered me questions, or noted my post!

when do you guys think israel will fall? me i tihnk sometimea aroound 30-70 years.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Nah I dont think Israel will ever fall, They handled everyone like six times, and now if they have nukes like everyone thinks, they are going to kill everyone. If they do fall it will be by there own hand by making the Middle East a nuclear wasteland.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

"Every High Soaring Bird, has to come down." you should know what this maen, even thou hardly anyone heard this quote befor.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

But its not soaring high. It seems to me like a bird that can still fly with a broken wing, if that makes any sense...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

yes it is! its a super power(atleast i consider it to be), and no i dont really think i know what you mean.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Jim Eadon

In case I am mistaken for an apologist for the ugly terrorist antics of the current enemies of the Jews - the Palestinians/arabs - I hasten to point out that of all religions, Islam is the one behind the most wars; terrorism; brutal and educationally backwards societies; and the majority of the most authoritarian and evil governments in modern times (and that's saying something). Forget multiculturalism, the world would be a safer place without religion in general and Islam in particular. It is only fair to point out that in medieval times Christianity was responsible for the same ugly species of atrocities as Islam is today. Even today, in their ignorance some Christians, Jews and most Muslims still mindlessly deny the scientific fact of evolution, which says a lot about the ability of the human mind to be made irrational by the worship of gods and the propaganda of scientifically illiterate priests, rabbis and mullahs.

http://www.eadon.com/movies/passionofchrist.php

I agree with this person completley

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Even in the 20th century, that isn't correct.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Vladtemplay you make it sound as if muslims were the ONLY people that has terrorists. it dosent matter what time terrorism happend in. Vlad, please name me just one war STARTED by MUSLIMS. and Jewish People are muslims's enemies too, they have been since whenever both lived together back then. and i will say the truth about education: in arab countries IT IS FREAKING HARD, when i was in elementry school i used to come home and all i did was home work till night! students in arab countries dont have enough time for fun, all we do is study, if we are backwarded people why would america be offering american citizenship and luxury to muslim/arab scientists, and doctors?

One note: both Jews and Muslims dislike each other. you should see how they look at us whenever they see my mom(scarff). also: i meet some of jews, and some of them were very nice to me even after they find out i am a muslim. calling me anti jewish is stupid because ive known some jews and never had problems with. I've never had problems with Vivanloq or any jewish person on the forums have i? no i only had problems with Jedi KNIGHTS(never meet alot)

My current questions again(and soem other questions every one by-passed):
-Name one War STARTED by MUSLIMS.

-Why do we (america) have to lose our allies in europe because of Israel?

-Why is the "religion of violence :rolleyes: " the second largest and fastest/most growing religion in the world? (notice i said religion of violence sarcastically)

Other questions that need answers:

Why cant palastinians have freedom?
why cant chechnyans gets its freedom?
why can americans get freedom?
why can scotland, and ireland get freedom?
why does russia get to keep chechnya, and Iraq cant keep Kuwait? yes, kuwait was part of iraq but england seperated too much arab countries.

Befor any one starts any crap about me supporting terrorism: READ CAREFULLY ALL THE WORDS BEFOR YOU ANYTHING ABOUT ME SUPPORTING TERRORISM. THANK YOU.

NOTE:I AM NOT ANTI-JEWISH.
__________________

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Every attempt by the UN to do something about the matter has been vetoed by the Americans)


Lots of people follow it. (Doesn’t mean their right though)


It's called diplomacy.


Russia shouldn’t keep Chechnya, Iraq shouldn’t have Kuwait.

-----------------------------------------------
Looking further through the Qu'Ran there are 123 verses about killing and fighting. Take this for instance
'Fighting is prescribed for you' does this sound like it isn’t meant to be violent?
What about this?
'fight the unbelievers who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness'
A religion of mercy no doubt :rolleyes:

Mohammed even said "Invitation first. If they refuse, then war."
And there are one hundred and twenty three verses like this! 123, how can you have 123 verses like that and claim to be a peaceful religion?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

you just love to preach about the qur'an, why?

why not talk about the bible?

how many times am i going to have to tell you, unbelievers and muslims dont fight anymore? and since you know so much about islam you propably know that these battle verses were bestowed upon mohamed in the midest of battles. you think God/Allah just sent down the qur'an in one piece and said do every thing that is said here? look at your guys, if a saint tells you something you have to do it, but if you ask an imam something, its up to you to believe him or not. Ged im just tired of you preaching verses from the Qur'an that were about OLD BATTLES and saying that we still do this :rolleyes: ...

Christians are the only ones using BRUTAL force right now in the world, not muslims, and you skipped some questions.......

(im betting ged is searching the net for more verses and then preaching again)

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Because it's part of the core of the belief.

Because, *sigh*
I've said this once before
I DONT BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE. I WILL NEVER BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE. Why? Because I have judged it AND FOUND GOD AS DEPICTED THEREIN TO BE A VIOLENT EVIL GOD. There are verses in the bible that support evil and I will never follow a god that supports suffering and hatred. (Besides I've my own belief so what would be the point?)
Happy?
I consider Islam and the bible in the same boat; with luck it will sink.

*Ahem*
'to ensure that no one but God is worshipped'
Even in the midst’s of battle this is unreasonable.



Err my guys? (Besides aren’t Christian saints meant to be dead before they can be called saints? Not really relevant as I don’t follow Christianity, but still.)

If anything it would be more accurate to say atheists are the ones committing violence and as you can’t lump all atheists together it then becomes people are committing violence.
Now if all atheists had something like the bible then it could be argued.

Edit: '(im betting ged is searching the net for more verses and then preaching again)'
Ged doesnt have to search the net. Ged has a copy of the Qu'Ran right here. *Points at desk*

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

oh so you dont follow a religion. i didnt mean saints i forgot wha they call them. christian church leaders.

UNBELIEVERS. if they wanted to start a war, then we ended it. (jews nd christians and muslims pray to god, allah is the word in arabic, so arab christians pray to allah)

BTW: why do you have it? just to insure that islam really is violent?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Still, you've got to admit that 'to ensure that no one but God is worshipped' is not a good reason to justify a war.
Whether they attacked first or not, this, is being stated as the reason. Not self defence, not justifiable, (as I consider self defence,) but instead 'to ensure that no one but God is worshipped'.

*shrug* Not really, I just like learning about people's beliefs.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Most people think that USA attacked Iraq to get control of Middle-east and get oil resources and Global war On terrorism is a joke in Bangladesh.Ofcourse everyone I asked couldn't give me the list of weapons found in Iraq.

I also ask a similar question.If Islam is a violent religion how come there are converts from other religions to Islam?One of my aunts was a Philipino Christian and now converted herself to a Muslim.I am also tired at the fact that whenever there's a movie of an airplane being hijacked the hijackers has to be Muslims.This happened before September 11,2001.

And also calling Muslims "Towel -Heads "is a rude thing.

And my reply to this is that if the Christians want the can towel their asses.


For a Muslim in a war you are allowed to kill for your religion or country.But i am not standing up for Osama or Saddam.I hate killing innocent people.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Do you wear glasses? I mean, do you really have to type with a font that big?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

No just to make you guys read my post.I am sorry if i had offended you but i can't tolerate a thing said against my religion.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Don't worry, your post would have been read with any font size. Try to keep the regular one in this forum, I prefer.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

is ok, same here. but i think Nesh did this so people can Clearly read what he is saying. (i think his english got better)

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Ok okay.I have forum friends who support strongly for Bush ,anti-Osama and anti-Saddam.

I am okay with them because they didn't say anything about Islam being a violent religion.Secondly I have a grudge on Osama.He has hampered my chances to go to USA where many of my relatives live and due to him Muslims receive leers from other religions.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

its very hard for muslims in america getting jobs/citizenship/other things. i remember once there were four adults in a car when we were entering Winn Dixie, they scream "oh no a muslim please dont blow us all up!" and they run like cowards and laugh.

same here, but there are certain people that if you go over the line with THIER views they consider you to be retarded, or a terrorist supporter.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

you're still wrong, and you're still ignorant....

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Ok, ive read a lot of pages (not all) from this topic and i need to clear up a few things. I myself am a muslim and i've studied world religions a lot, especially my own (of course).

1)Islam does preach violence tho...the Koran, so I have heard, promotes very unethical and inhumane treatment of girls.- Thats a disgusting stereotype and a rumour. Men are told to work outside the house, women inside the house- but women can do both. The prohet (PBUH)'s wife Amina was a great businesswoman.

2) Koran, Qur'an both the same- Qur'an is more accurate though. We have a weak K and a strong Q in arabic, its the strong Q in Qur'an.

3) How many people do you think are affiliated with Al Qaeda? A few thousand max? Even if its 10's of thousands, there are over 1 billion muslims on the the planet- how can you judge them all? Thats like judging all Meat Eaters as killers (Please, dont debate that- its an example, unless your debate is valid)

4) Not all muslims dislike jews, i have no problems with them. I dont judge any group of people with any beleifs- and this is the same with many muslims.

5) Relating to the Top heading- The word islam has many meanings, 'Peace', 'Submission', etc. Ive read so many Qu'ran quotes about war and killing, where are your quotes about treating those who are cruel and oppressive to you with patience? If you Qur'an quoting people actually studied islam, the Qur'an and the Prophet (PBUH)s teachings in deapth, you would realise what nonsence this thread and the entire stereotype is. The Qur'an even mentions the 'hypocrites'. These are those who claim to be loyal to Allah but plot or sin- a la Talibal/Al Qaeda. Us muslims DONT support them, they are a bunch of imbisciles- they just ruin it for every other muslim.

I really gotta sleep now but i hope i've enlightened some people of what us 'Muslims' (not islamists or mohammadists) represent ;).

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

DANG! so sorry i said Nesh, i thought something was wrong when i saw the paragraphing and good english. ROFL you both kinda have similar Avatars and i thought it was him, and i thought he was out of his mind! sorry for callng you Nesh.:(

yay i count 4 muslims(inclusing me) on the forums now.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Just because your religion has more people than others, does not make it correct. Using the numbers is a logical fallacy. There might be a billion muslims, but they are still all wrong for following a religion, esspecially one telling them to kill unbelievers. Any world organized religion is wrong, since there is no god

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Everyone has their opinion I understand .You have a right to say whatever you want but that doesn't mean Muslim are gonna be called towel-heads.Its an insult.Atleast to me.And when I said I can't tolerate people saying against Islam I mean that I feel myself insulted.I don't mean that I am gonna launch Boeing 747 attacks on every building in the USA.I just feel insulted and etc.etc.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I have never in my past, and never will call people derigatory names. I have been though that myself, and I know how it feels.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

ok Ged, and Vladtemplar tell me where i said muslims are right because they have over a billion followers? i didnt. i said why is the" religion of violence:rolleyes:" the most/fastest growing religion on the world? my point here is that alot of people are converting to the"Rekigion of violence:rolleyes:". get it?
now, you give a bad people to jedis :p your religion is made up of warrior with light sabers! you are a violent Jedi KNIGHT

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Why are people smoking cigarettes, when they know its bad for them? Why are people doing crazy things like joining organized religions is beyond me.
I do not have a light saber, since Star Wars is a movie and not real, just like your Allah and Mohammed and Jesus were just normal people. Koran and Bible preach non-sense that is outdated, fake and just plain fantasy, just like Star Wars. You are crazy just like me.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I haven’t said you did say they were right because of the number of followers.

Why should I care how many people convert to your religion?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

You still dont get what i mean.

Post #270, bottom of page 9.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Thinking that something must be right because many people are doing it, is a LOGICAL FALLACY called APPEAL TO POPULARITY

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/pop.htm

Appeal to Popularity
(argumentum ad populum)

Definition:

• A proposition is held to be true because it is widely held to
  be true or is held to be true by some (usually upper crust)
  sector of the population.
  This fallacy is sometimes also called the "Appeal to Emotion"
  because emotional appeals often sway the population as a
  whole.

Examples:

• (i) If you were beautiful, you could live like this, so buy
  Buty-EZ and become beautiful. (Here, the appeal is to the
  "beautiful people".)
  (ii) Polls suggest that the Liberals will form a majority
  government, so you may as well vote for them.
  (iii) Everyone knows that the Earth is flat, so why do you
  persist in your outlandish claims?

References:

• Copi and Cohen: 103, Davis: 62

And what you was doing to me earlier is called ATTACKING THE PERSON
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/attack.htm
Attacking the Person
(argumentum ad hominem)

Definition:

• The person presenting an argument is attacked instead of the
  argument itself. This takes many forms. For example, the
  person's character, nationality or religion may be attacked.
  Alternatively, it may be pointed out that a person stands to
  gain from a favourable outcome. Or, finally, a person may be
  attacked by association, or by the company he keeps. There are three major forms of Attacking the Person:
  (1) ad hominem (abusive): instead of attacking an assertion,
  the argument attacks the person who made the assertion.
  (2) ad hominem (circumstantial): instead of attacking an
  assertion the author points to the relationship between the
  person making the assertion and the person's circumstances.
  (3) ad hominem (tu quoque): this form of attack on the
  person notes that a person does not practise what he
  preaches.
  
  

Examples:

• (i) You may argue that God doesn't exist, but you are just
  following a fad. (ad hominem abusive)
  (ii) We should discount what Premier Klein says about
  taxation because he won't be hurt by the increase. (ad
  hominem circumstantial)
  (iii) We should disregard Share B.C.'s argument because they
  are being funded by the logging industry. (ad hominem
  circumstantial)
  (iv) You say I shouldn't drink, but you haven't been sober for
  more than a year. (ad hominem tu quoque)

Proof:

• Identify the attack and show that the character or
  circumstances of the person has nothing to do with the truth
  or falsity of the proposition being defended.

References:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

ok again, since you didnt read the post where i ask you to state where i said we are right.
tell em Vladtemplar, where did i say we were right because we have 1+ billion followers?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I haven't said that YOU said they were I was just commenting that it didn't.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Are you saying that 1+ billion Muslim followers including you are wrong?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

im saying that every one has his own beliefes, and im not saying me and over 1+ billion followers are right, and im also not saying we are wrong, and same goes ot jedi KNIGHTS and all other religions.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

You are still using the "Attacking the Person" logical fallacy. Its not working
Confused about your own religion? A billion of Muslims are not right?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

******well said, well said...I'm sick of so many people jumping on the slam Islam bandwagon, just because of their upbringing, peers, and CNN. Time to do some investigation of our own, don't ya think? Thanks for listening...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

vlad, don't be a jackass. Of course he's not confused, he just means to be polite.

He could have said this, and been slightly ruder, but not by much:

I believe that my religion is right, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Oh, and mrcards, when you think about it, all vegetarians are killers, too, including all those animals. Just a thought. :)

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I see your words like this:

damn you're arrogant.