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DeaditeDan October 17th, 2004 11:20 AM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Yeah but you are forgetting the golden rule of interpretation, which is context. I am pretty familiar with the Qur'an, and a lot of these verses pertaining to fighting 'infidels' refer to specific events that happened in the early days of Islam while the Qur'an was still being revealed.

The commandments to fight unbelievers refer specifically to the Quraiysh, the pagan rulers of Mecca who were persecuting the early Muslims and making war on them, not a general commandment for all times.

L337_Haxs October 17th, 2004 11:25 AM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
I was just about to post those too but since you did that is fine lol saved me a bunch of time :)

Islam is a religion of if you are not one of us you deserve to die. Seems pretty nasty to me and those verses taken from the 'Qur'an' I think justify it well enough

vladtemplar October 17th, 2004 11:31 AM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
IV.138: Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way.

http://nowscape.com/mormon/lamanite_a.gifIV.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

IV.92:
And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave , and blood-money should be paid to his people unless they remit it as alms; but if he be from a tribe hostile to you and he is a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), and if he is from a tribe between whom and you there is a covenant, the blood-money should be paid to his people along with the freeing of a believing slave; but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.

The Roman numerals are the SURAs of the Koran, similar to the books of the Bible. The chapters of the sura follows. You can verify this text and read more by going to a Koran website, such as this one at the University of Virginia.


XVI.8: It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you (again return to disobedience) We too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers.

II.161: Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all;

IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.

IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God.

IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God's path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.

VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God's.

http://nowscape.com/islam/images/WTC_collapse.jpg

"There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism. At most there is a difference of degree but not of kind."

-- Ibn Warraq,
executive director of the Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society

For the complete statement, please see www.secularhumanism.org/wtc.htm




Many of Islam's central documents call to violence.
Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (Jews - see V.82) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Keep up prayer - Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât ( - pay the poor-rate), then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


http://nowscape.com/islam/images/Bin_Laden.jpg
--- CLICK to see more ---
IV.56Torment to Non-believers III.85Islam Acceptable III.118No friends from outsiders V. 51Friends with Jews, Christians
Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief,
Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way. (4:138)

IV.144, III.28No friends with non believers IX.23No friends with parents/siblings if not believershttp://nowscape.com/islam/images/taliban-fighter1.jpg IX.123 Fight non-believersIV.89Kill non-believers V.82Anti Jewish verses VIII.30God a "plotter" IX.5Killing Idolatershttp://nowscape.com/islam/images/tal..._US_walker.jpgJohn Walker IX.28Idolaters are unclean just because they are idolater IX.29Forcing non-believers to pay tax XLIV.43-58The Torment of Hell II.62, V.69All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabeans will go to hell
The prophet Mohammed (may he rest in peace) once said: "A cheap rug is more valuable in a man's home than a woman"
-- From the Hadith recorded by (off-site) Sahih Al-Bukhari.
VIII.12Cut off the fingertips of unbelievers XLVII.4Smite the neck of unbelievers X.4 ; V.10 ; V.86Severe Punishment for atheists XXII.19-22 ; LXXII.23, XCVIII.6Severe Punishment for non-believers XVII.10Punishing non-believers of Hereafter"A belief in God would
demand 100% obsessive
devotion, influencing
every waking moment
of this brief life on earth."

-- Scott Adams
(God's Debris, pg 28)


III.91Punishing for rejecting faith IV.140 ; VII.36Non believers go to hell IV.150-151Partial Believers go to hell too LVI.42-43Sadistic punishments XVI.106 ; III.86-88 ; III.90 ; IV.137Punishment for apostates IX.38-39, XLVIII.16Threat of punishment for not going to war http://nowscape.com/islam/images/Moussaoui.jpg'Slave of
Allah,'
Zacarias
Moussaoui is charged
with
conspiracy in the attacks.
April / 2002. III.178Allah making someone more sinful so he can be punished more VI.25 ; VI.110Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth XVII.45-46Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Koran XVII.97It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that VI.35God could guide, if he chose to, but did not http://nowscape.com/islam/images/tal...i-fighters.jpg XIV.4Allah Intentionally misguideshttp://nowscape.com/islam/images/sui...id_Mask%20.jpg
Imam Abdel - Hamid Maskkilled 18 people
/ 2003. XVI.93Willfully misguiding some IV.143 ; VII.178God causes human to err IV.142God deceiving humans
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DeaditeDan October 17th, 2004 11:35 AM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quit posting propaganda crap.

Like any religious text, it is how you interpret the Qur'an. If you take things out of context, you can get an extremist message, which is what people like Usamah bin Laden do. There are more egalitarian aspects in the scripture, and duelist aspects(us vs. them). Christianity and just about any other religion have this as well. It depends upon whether or not people choose to interpret it in that manner.

You really are making yourself look quite uninformed.

vladtemplar October 17th, 2004 11:37 AM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...179375-2212168

Written by a former Muslim, it shows how violent Islam really is.

I am more informed than you, buddy. You close your eyes to the truth in front of you. I am not posting "propoganda", unless thats what you call the truth

JP(NL) October 17th, 2004 11:39 AM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
seriously vlad, stop posting propaganda. it's annoying.

JP(NL) October 17th, 2004 12:00 PM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
nm, delete this thing.

DeaditeDan October 17th, 2004 12:02 PM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Mods please delete the above crap as well he posted, that is hate literature and it's irresponsible to leave it up for all to view.

-DarthMaul- October 17th, 2004 12:05 PM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
damn! Vladtemplar do you have a fraken life?

i cant believe he came back to this thread...AGAIN.

now the facts war is going to start.

No please dont delete. it just shows how ignorant he is. i just hope he would 'see the truht'. i think he would never understand though.

DeaditeDan October 17th, 2004 12:07 PM

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
DarthMaul, isn't ironic that I, a non-muslim and an athiest have ended up as the biggest defender of Islam in this thread? lol


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