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-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 05:19 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought[DK]
that may be so but please remain calm anyway.
ill try. but your not muslim and you dont know how it feels to be overwhelmed by all this crap they say that people might take seriously.

so no one answered my questions yet. adding to the questions i dont care what time or religion they are, terror is terror weather its a muslim/jew/christian/ or any religon, any time is terror.

Biggus Dickus September 3rd, 2004 05:24 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
ill try. but your not muslim and you dont know how it feels to be overwhelmed by all this crap they say that people might take seriously.
I'm not muslim. But all this crap pisses me off too. Anyway try to keep your calm. You wouldn't want to show them they're right, don't you? ;)

Dreadnought[DK] September 3rd, 2004 05:27 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Nosferatu
Quod Erat Demonstratum
exactly
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
ill try. but your not muslim and you dont know how it feels to be overwhelmed by all this crap they say that people might take seriously.
you are of course right about that and i can only imagine what it must be like to be so grossly stereotyped. still i would prefere that members don't vent their frustrations at others (however well deserved it may be). this goes for all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
so no one answered my questions yet
sorry, what was the question again?

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 05:29 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
the ones listed in post #95 but i was talking to Vladtemplar, Beef(i think he posted here), Eagle.

Xenomorph September 3rd, 2004 05:45 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
It would appear that Islam is going through the period of violence and upheaval that Christianity went through a few hundred years ago. The main reason, I think, that the Muslim world didn't keep up with Europe in economical and social advancement is because Christianity couldn't conquer it, and whatever Christianity couldn't conquer it in effect put an embargo on. Since the rest of the world, in one way or another, was taken over by Christianity, this had the effect of isolating Muslim nations. Look at all the other countries that have advanced: In the Americas, Christianity was forced on the local populace. In Asia, Christianity was integrated into their current religions. Not surprising, since the Asians tend to have a different way of viewing things and don't see any problem with blending different beliefs of different religions together. I'm not trying to be mean to Islam, and if anything I'm being critical of Christianity. It seems that whenever Christianity finds a populace that it cannot either conquer or subdue, it says "Screw you guys, I'm playing with my toys over here instead."

Nemmerle September 3rd, 2004 05:50 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
How about the more violent verses in the Qu'Ran? Like (and I forget the exact wording)
"And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if ALLAH had so pleased, HE could have punished them Himself, but HE has willed that HE may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of ALLAH - HE will never render their works vain."
Yes I think it was something like that. Rather militant wouldn’t you say?

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 05:50 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
i forgot to add why arab countries are backwarded, america has all of our scientists.

ColdHaven September 3rd, 2004 05:59 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
When people start saying to me about how evil the Muslim religion is I like to think back to the Inquisition and Crusades where genocide and terrorist-type actions were the norm for Christian behavior. It was even accepted. How different Catholicism is today from then? So how different are certain sects in a thousand years? Muslims do not breed hate, people do.

Nemmerle September 3rd, 2004 06:01 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Are Muslims not also people?

ColdHaven September 3rd, 2004 06:04 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
How about the more violent verses in the Qu'Ran? Like (and I forget the exact wording)
"And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if ALLAH had so pleased, HE could have punished them Himself, but HE has willed that HE may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of ALLAH - HE will never render their works vain."
Yes I think it was something like that. Rather militant wouldn’t you say?
Yes, it seems militant, but no more so than parts of the Bible referring to the proper way to rape women in battle (according to Deuteronomy, in battle a man should take the woman as his concubine for a period of time, and after which if she wishes to leave she can), or the references by Moses to go and slaughter women, children, friend and family when they were not obeying God? I believe that was right after they had escaped from Egypt. What about every battle in the Bible? God never seemed to have mercy there. I think you need to be a bit more educated about your own texts before referencing someone else's.

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 06:07 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
also forgot to add. if it wasnt for george bush we wouldnt have had a 9/11, you know why?
whenever and arab country asks for help at the UN america veto's. because we support israel even thou almost the whole world knows what they do is wrong, but we still help them. bush says israel dosent have to go back to 1954 boarders(or was it a diff year?)
bush dosent support palastinians. there are many more reasons. at other countries, france banns muslim girls from wearing viels/scarffs come on they want to wear it, they dont want to show thier skin like other girls do. in germany and britain they teach thier students about islam.(not to get them converted, but just to give them an idea that islam is peacful, which some people ehre need to go take ASAP)

Nemmerle September 3rd, 2004 06:08 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdHaven
Yes, it seems militant, but no more so than parts of the Bible referring to the proper way to rape women in battle (according to Deuteronomy, in battle a man should take the woman as his concubine for a period of time, and after which if she wishes to leave she can), or the references by Moses to go and slaughter women, children, friend and family when they were not obeying God? I believe that was right after they had escaped from Egypt. What about every battle in the Bible? God never seemed to have mercy there. I think you need to be a bit more educated about your own texts before referencing someone else's.
I think you need to realise I'm not a Christian.
My religion has no limiting texts or pre-built morals, it is a belief in the nature of life nothing more nothing less.

ColdHaven September 3rd, 2004 06:08 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Are Muslims not also people?
Oh wow! You're right! I never figured that they were people! So good of you to remind me of it. That is my point. People cause hate and murder, not certain religions. People want someone they can use as a scapegoat. In the Inquisition it was the pagans and Jews...in WWII it was the Jews also. The Crusades was the Christian movement to erradicate the Muslim's growth as a religion. Too many were converting back then to Islam, and the Catholic Church could not stand for it. It is blind hate and orthodoxy which always muddle things between God and people.

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 06:12 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
How about the more violent verses in the Qu'Ran? Like (and I forget the exact wording)
"And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if ALLAH had so pleased, HE could have punished them Himself, but HE has willed that HE may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of ALLAH - HE will never render their works vain."
Yes I think it was something like that. Rather militant wouldn’t you say?
you guys need ot prove this with the actual verse and sura. most of the battles in the quran are aimed toward unbelievers.(people that prayed to statues made out of dough then ate them :confused: ). i would explain one battle that happend(jews were suppose to be on our side) but peopel will call me an"anti-semetic" so im not.

Nemmerle September 3rd, 2004 06:14 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdHaven
Oh wow! You're right! I never figured that they were people! So good of you to remind me of it. That is my point. People cause hate and murder, not certain religions. People want someone they can use as a scapegoat. {etc}
A religion is made by the people who follow it. Without people religion is only a word, a name, less than nothing.

Tekk9 September 3rd, 2004 06:24 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
also forgot to add. if it wasnt for george bush we wouldnt have had a 9/11, you know why?
whenever and arab country asks for help at the UN america veto's. because we support israel even thou almost the whole world knows what they do is wrong, but we still help them. bush says israel dosent have to go back to 1954 boarders(or was it a diff year?)
bush dosent support palastinians. there are many more reasons. at other countries, france banns muslim girls from wearing viels/scarffs come on they want to wear it, they dont want to show thier skin like other girls do. in germany and britain they teach thier students about islam.(not to get them converted, but just to give them an idea that islam is peacful, which some people ehre need to go take ASAP)
I see where you are coming from DarthMaul but don't politicize this issue. What we're discussing is Islam at it's core. Which is a peaceful religion that was created in a tough neighborhood (Mongol invaders to the East, the 2nd Holy Roman empire to the West and right among, various Arab pagan tribes. Not to mention the Persians that were the hardest to convert to Islam and the Jewish tribes that allied themselves with the pagan Arabs during Islam's growth). The reason for all the defensive/offensive verses is because they would probably become the least welcome religion in that region and sure enough, the world. But it wasn't the Muslims who isolated themselves, during their attempt to spread, they stepped on a few toes and made enemies for life. Today is a different day, though. People who would once be at total war are now doing business on a day-to-day basis. (Can you believe just 60 years ago, France killed over 200,000 people in Algeria? Now France is a nation that does more business with more Mid-East nations than most).

But these terrorists do not want to conform to the times. They still believe that borders are static, even in 1948. When Israel was created, it was the biggest slap to the face the Arab world could have ever received. But most Arabs realize that it's gonna be harder to conquer nations like Israel these days because of how the world united over the years. But these terrorists don't recognize the U.N. as a respectable body. They don't respect the EU, even when they did so much for Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo. NATO also played a major role in the Balkans yet these terrorists want nothing to do with them! They are idiots. The Muslims that are not causing problems are very smart. They are looking to improve their lives. These terrorists, they are wasting their time and they're killing innocent people, including their own people.....

Nemmerle September 3rd, 2004 06:25 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
you guys need ot prove this with the actual verse and sura.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surah 47
47: 1. In the name of ALLAH, the Gracious, the Merciful.
47: 2. Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of ALLAH - HE renders their works vain.
47: 3. But as for those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in that which has been revealed to Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - HE removes from them their sins and sets right their affairs.
47: 4. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does ALLAH set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.
47: 5. And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if ALLAH had so pleased, HE could have punished them Himself, but HE has willed that HE may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of ALLAH - HE will never render their works vain.
47: 6. HE will guide them to success and will improve their condition.
47: 7. And will admit them into the Garden which HE has made known to them.
47: 8. O ye who believe ! if you help the cause of ALLAH, HE will help you and will make your steps firm.
47: 9. But those who disbelieve, perdition is their lot; and HE will make their works vain.
47: 10. That is because they hate what ALLAH has revealed; so HE has made their works vain.
47: 11. Have they not traveled in the earth and seen what was the end of those who were before them ? ALLAH utterly destroyed them, and for the disbelievers there will be the like thereof.
47: 12. That is because ALLAH is the Protector of those who believe, and the disbelievers have no protector.
47: 13. Verily, ALLAH will cause those who believe and do good works to enter the Gardens underneath which streams flow; While those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat even as the cattle eat, and the Fire will be their last resort.
47: 14. And how many a township, mightier than thy town which has driven thee out, have WE destroyed, and they had no helper.
47: 15. Then, is he who takes his stand upon a clear proof from his Lord like those to whom the evil of their deeds is made to look attractive and who follow their low desires ?
47: 16. A description of the Garden promised to the righteous: Therein are streams of water which corrupts not; and streams of milk of which the taste changes not; and streams of wine, a delight to those who drink; and streams of clarified honey. And in it they will have all kinds of fruit, and forgiveness from their Lord. Can those who enjoy such bliss be like those who abide in the Fire and who are given boiling water to drink so that it tears their bowels ?
47: 17. And among them are some who seems to listen to thee till, when they go forth from thy presence, they say to those who have been given knowledge, `What has he been talking about just now ?' These are they upon whose hearts ALLAH has set a seal, and who follow their own evil desires.
47: 18. But as for those who follow guidance, HE adds to their guidance, and bestows on them righteousness suited to their condition.
47: 19. The disbelievers wait not but for the Hour, that it should come upon them suddenly. The Signs thereof have already come. But of what avail will their admonition be to them when it has actually come upon them.
47: 20. Know, therefore, that there is no god other than ALLAH, and ask protection for thy human frailties, and for believing men and believing women. And ALLAH knows the place where you move about and the place where you stay.
47: 21. And those who believe say, `Why is not a Surah revealed ?' But when a decisive Surah is revealed and fighting is mentioned therein, thou seest those in whose hearts is a disease, looking towards thee like the look of one who is fainting on account of approaching death. So woe to them !
47: 22. Their attitude should have been one of obedience and of calling people to good. And when the matter was determined upon, it was good for them if they were true to ALLAH.
47: 23. Would you not then, if you are placed in authority, create disorder in the land and sever your ties of kinship ?
47: 24. It is these whom ALLAH has cursed, so that HE has made them deaf and has made their eyes blind.
47: 25. Will they not, then, ponder over the Qur'an, or, is it that there are locks on their hearts ?
47: 26. Surely, those who turn their backs after guidance has become manifest to them, Satan has seduced them and holds out false hopes to them.
47: 27. That is because they said to those who hate what ALLAH has revealed, `We will obey you in some matters, and ALLAH knows their secrets.
47: 28. But how will they fare when the angels will cause them to die, smiting their faces and their backs ?
47: 29. That is because they followed that which displeased ALLAH, and disliked the seeking of HIS pleasure. So HE rendered their works vain.
47: 30. Do those in whose hearts is a disease suppose that ALLAH will not bring to light their malice ?
47: 31. And if WE pleased, WE could show them to thee so that thou shouldst know them by their marks. And thou shalt, surely, recognize them by the tone of their speech. And ALLAH knows your deeds.
47: 32. And WE will, surely, try you, until WE make manifest those among you who strive for the cause of ALLAH and those who are steadfast. And WE will make known the true facts about you.
47: 33. Those, who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of ALLAH and oppose the Messenger after guidance has become manifest to them, shall not harm ALLAH in the least; and HE will make their works fruitless.
47: 34. O ye who believe ! obey ALLAH and obey the Messenger and make not your works vain.
47: 35. Verily, those who disbelieve and hinder people from the way of ALLAH, and then die while they are disbelievers - ALLAH certainly, will not forgive them.
47: 36. So be not slack and sue not for peace, for you will, certainly, have the upper hand. And ALLAH is with you, and HE will not deprive you of the reward of your actions.
47: 37. The life of this world is but a sport and a pastime, and if you believe and be righteous, HE will give you your rewards, and will not ask of you your wealth.
47: 38. Were HE to ask it of you and press you, you would be ******dly, and HE would bring to light your malice.
47: 39. Behold ! You are those who are called upon to spend in the way of ALLAH; but of you there are some who are ******dly. And whoso is ******dly, is ******dly only against his own soul. And ALLAH is Self-Sufficient, and it is you who are needy. And if you turn your backs, HE will bring in your place another people; then they will not be like you.
There :)

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 06:38 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
ok, now to make other things clear.

in islam who ever kills(for fun or no reason) is killed. the government kills the killer. Magicians are killed. some one who is married and has sex with some one other then his wife/husbandwn rocks at until he/she dies.


The meaning of jihad:
-Jehad-bil-saaf (Armed struggle)
In this kind of Jihad, The Muslims organize themselves under an 'Ameir' (Leader) and start their struggle against the enemy. Enemies can be of different types i.e. Jehad-bil-saaf can be declared against an attacking enemy or it can be declared against an enemy state, which is either torching the Muslim populations in that country or trying to create trouble for an Islamic State. Jehad-bil-saaf is what others (Non-Muslims) know as 'The Holy War' of Muslims...
-Jehad-e-Akbar (to prevent yourself from committing indecent acts)
Jehad-e-Akbar is the most difficult form of Jihad because in this form of Jihad, one must have to be very careful about his daily life deeds. Jehad-e-Akbar means 'The Biggest Jihad' (As 'Akbar' means big, great).
-Jehad-bil-Elum (to tell others about right way who does not know it)
Jehad-bil-Elum means to spread the light of knowledge to others, to tell people about right and wrong, to tell people how to live their daily life and how to behave with other Muslims and Non-Muslims. This clearly shows how much Islam gives importance to Knowledge and its teacher. A teacher who is busy doing his job is considered to be involved in this pious and noble Jihad.
-Jehad-bil-Mall (to spend your wealth for Allah, in the way of Allah)
Jehad-bil-Mall means that if a [person] for some reason cannot himself participate in the noble event like Jihad, he can contribute in Jihad by helping 'Mujahedien' (Muslim Soldiers). A person can also contribute with his money even if he himself [is not] taking [an] active part in Jihad."

again, killing in the qur'an is mostly toward Un-Believers/Dis0believers.

Nemmerle September 3rd, 2004 06:49 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
again, killing in the qur'an is mostly toward Un-Believers/Dis0believers.
Just because it is directed towards un-believers does not make it right.

Edit: Well I'm off to bed now. I'll deal with the response to this in the morning.

vladtemplar September 3rd, 2004 06:52 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenomorph
It would appear that Islam is going through the period of violence and upheaval that Christianity went through a few hundred years ago. The main reason, I think, that the Muslim world didn't keep up with Europe in economical and social advancement is because Christianity couldn't conquer it, and whatever Christianity couldn't conquer it in effect put an embargo on. Since the rest of the world, in one way or another, was taken over by Christianity, this had the effect of isolating Muslim nations. Look at all the other countries that have advanced: In the Americas, Christianity was forced on the local populace. In Asia, Christianity was integrated into their current religions. Not surprising, since the Asians tend to have a different way of viewing things and don't see any problem with blending different beliefs of different religions together. I'm not trying to be mean to Islam, and if anything I'm being critical of Christianity. It seems that whenever Christianity finds a populace that it cannot either conquer or subdue, it says "Screw you guys, I'm playing with my toys over here instead."
Thanks Xenomorph. Thats what I been saying this whole time. The Middle East is stuck in the past. I am sure you all can see that
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdHaven
Yes, it seems militant, but no more so than parts of the Bible referring to the proper way to rape women in battle (according to Deuteronomy, in battle a man should take the woman as his concubine for a period of time, and after which if she wishes to leave she can), or the references by Moses to go and slaughter women, children, friend and family when they were not obeying God? I believe that was right after they had escaped from Egypt. What about every battle in the Bible? God never seemed to have mercy there. I think you need to be a bit more educated about your own texts before referencing someone else's.
Dont be so stuck up.
All that is true, but it happened thousands of years ago. The Muslims are doing that stuff NOW in 21 century!!:mad: I guess you havent read any previous posts!

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 06:57 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
excuse me, youve been saying islam is a violent religion. hence the name of the thread.
i said this befor. america has almost all of the arab countries best scientists/inventors.
since arab countries dont give them luxuary, and money. they go to america when america offers it. i approve of all of our leaders being removed those. only if it could be done with no violence like iraq.

Ged- i know but they were the ones that attacked us do we sit here and die because we might be called violent? no, we have to defend our selves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladtemplar
Dont be so stuck up.
All that is true, but it happened thousands of years ago. The Muslims are doing that stuff NOW in 21 century!!:mad:

it dosent matter what timeline it is. terror is always terror.

look at you. you have all your jedi buddies slicing heads of bounty hunters(Jango Fett). you run around like you own the galaxy. you slice other bad jedis in half(darth Maul). you guys (jedis and bad jedis) fight your self!!. you peopel terrorize each other.

Aeroflot September 3rd, 2004 07:12 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
prove it retard. expalin why im still alive dumbass(im pretty pissed at all these retards right now sorry).



sudan is a muslim country, it is christians that slaughter the muslims.

a couple of months ago chritians killed and slaughtered 76 muslims. who is the terrorist here?

The Philipinese government(christians now) are slaughtering muslims in Mandanow, because they want their freedom from thier government that keep attacking them.

Serbia's chritians slaughter thier muslim neighbours, FOR NO REASON.

who slaughtered muslims in slaughtering camps in lebonan?

who started world war 1?
who started world war 2?
who started all american wars?
who saved chritians from the romans, when they used to throw christians for the lions for entertainment?
who saved the orthodox(christians) from the catholics in spain?
who saved JEws and Christians in Jerusalim from the crusaders?
who stopped the crusaders?
who stopped genghis khan and his tartar hordes?

Name at least one war Muslims started.
Actually WW1 was started my a muslim country,.. Bosnia that wanted independence from Austria...

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 07:14 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
i thought it was a german guy that assassinated an austrian duke(or some rich or famous guy)...

Aeroflot September 3rd, 2004 07:17 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
It was Gavrilo Princip, a guy from a group called the "Black Hand".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

Anyways... not disagreeing with you with muslims or anything.. just wanted to point that out...

Tekk9 September 3rd, 2004 07:20 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
No, actually it was a Serbian member of the terrorist group, The Black Hand that killed Archduke Ferdinand of Austria. Serbians wanted more rights for themselves in Austria and they wanted Austria to stop governing Serbia and creating laws for them.

His name was Gavrilo Princip.....

http://www.sulinet.hu/ikep/2002/09/merenyl.jpg

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 07:21 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
i dont get it. can you summarize? because i just did web search and kind ahard to grasp the facts out of it. did bosnia use force to start the war?

Blehh September 3rd, 2004 07:31 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Serbia was tired of Austria laying down the law and wanted to be sovereign. The Black Hand was an extremist group that was responsible for killing the Arch Duke. Austria declares war on Serbia, Germany joins Austria. Russia says you attack Serbia we'll attack you. France says you attack Russia we'll attack you. The next 4 years ravaged Europe.

Aeroflot September 3rd, 2004 07:32 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Obviously Serbia helped and that really screwed it all up.

Tekk9 September 3rd, 2004 07:33 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
See, we are a self-destructive species. No need for the 4 horsemen, we'll do it ourselves!

vladtemplar September 3rd, 2004 07:44 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
it dosent matter what timeline it is. terror is always terror.

look at you. you have all your jedi buddies slicing heads of bounty hunters(Jango Fett). you run around like you own the galaxy. you slice other bad jedis in half(darth Maul). you guys (jedis and bad jedis) fight your self!!. you peopel terrorize each other.
Thats just a move. Thats not real life. Its a parody of life,an interpretation by George Lucas.

-DarthMaul- September 3rd, 2004 07:46 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
no it isnt. your a jedi knight. it is what you believe in. since you are then i guess everything in star wars is real.

edit: getting late and im tired, ill respond in the morning.

Biggus Dickus September 3rd, 2004 08:09 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
@DarthMaul and vladtemplar: What is that? A double post contest? You know the edit button, so quit the double posting.

Red Menace September 3rd, 2004 10:49 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Jedi's? Huh? What's going on? Were is this thread going?

NiteStryker September 3rd, 2004 11:16 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Menace
Jedi's? Huh? What's going on? Were is this thread going?

Jedis? We dun need no stinkin Jedis!

:lol:

I just dont like the forcefulness of Christianity....its like you either accept that supposedly 'god's son' died for you or ur takin a seat in Hell. So, you can be a good moral and ethical person, but you dont accept this dude and ur damned...yet you could go slice people's limbs off and stick them in hot dogs, and yet you accept this guy and ur good to go forever..... :kerian:

Grimme September 4th, 2004 03:59 AM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdHaven
When people start saying to me about how evil the Muslim religion is I like to think back to the Inquisition and Crusades where genocide and terrorist-type actions were the norm for Christian behavior. It was even accepted. How different Catholicism is today from then? So how different are certain sects in a thousand years? Muslims do not breed hate, people do.
The bloody crusades happened in the 14th century, THIS IS THE 21st CENTURY, CATHOLICS DO NOT DO GENOCIDE ANYMORE!!! It's not a defense, "Oh the Christians did it too", in this day and age we live in the present not the past, people learn and move on.

Darth Maul why does your sig say Free Chechyna?? Aren't they the people who just killed 200 school kids???

Dreadnought[DK] September 4th, 2004 04:17 AM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladtemplar
Thanks Xenomorph. Thats what I been saying this whole time. The Middle East is stuck in the past. I am sure you all can see that
if we follow that line of thought we could also begin to study/discuss why it is so. perhaps we should also talk about western exploitation of colonies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroFlot
Actually WW1 was started my a muslim country,.. Bosnia that wanted independence from Austria...
but he was a nationalist fighting for unification with serbia. he wasn't a religious fanatic screaming 'allah akbar' while killing the infidel. the killing wasn't religiously motivated and as such tells us nothing about islam as a peaceful or violent religion. the first world war is totally irrelevant to this topic, so if you wish to discuss it, please go here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
your a jedi knight. it is what you believe in. since you are then i guess everything in star wars is real.
the same things goes for 'jediism'. if you wish to discuss that, either go here or here. why there are two threads about this in the religion forum is beyond me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim_Grom
Darth Maul why does your sig say Free Chechyna?? Aren't they the people who just killed 200 school kids???
that too can be discussed elsewhere, namely here.

JP(NL) September 4th, 2004 05:48 AM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim_Grom
The bloody crusades happened in the 14th century, THIS IS THE 21st CENTURY, CATHOLICS DO NOT DO GENOCIDE ANYMORE!!! It's not a defense, "Oh the Christians did it too", in this day and age we live in the present not the past, people learn and move on.
I have a better idea. we force all the western nation's to give all the wealth they gained by exploiting their colonies, such as india, the middle east, most of asia... hell most of the world that wasn't christian. then we can start over.

you have to understand. you made these people, you made them poor, you leached off them, they made you rich, they made you who you are, you made them who they are.

I don't give a rats ass about the fact that you are too stupid to understand that the time in wich something happend is not an excuse or justification for action/inaction. hitler mass murdered over 6 million jews in ww2. but that was 60 years ago, who gives a shit? jezus, stop being a closed minded piece of arrogant :Censored: .

[/rant]

Nemmerle September 4th, 2004 06:16 AM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP(NL)
I have a better idea. we force all the western nation's to give all the wealth they gained by exploiting their colonies, such as india, the middle east, most of asia... hell most of the world that wasn't christian. then we can start over.
If as you say we are responsible for what people who lived thousands of years ago did then all the world deserves to die. Every last one of them from the newborn children to the oldest man. Then we can start redressing other damages. Would you still claim such a future if that were the cost of what you propose?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP(NL)
you have to understand. you made these people, you made them poor, you leached off them, they made you rich, they made you who you are, you made them who they are.
No, all men must take responsibility for their situation. If you are to weak to accept that then that’s your problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP(NL)
I don't give a rats ass about the fact that you are too stupid to understand that the time in wich something happend is not an excuse or justification for action/inaction. hitler mass murdered over 6 million jews in ww2. but that was 60 years ago, who gives a shit? jezus, stop being a closed minded piece of arrogant :Censored:
Yes it was sixty years ago.
And we have not annihilated Germany from the face of the earth, (an action I assure you we could have done at the end of world war 2.) Instead Germany is now a highly respected member of the community.
In a way you're right when you ask 'who cares' and I have an answer for you: I don’t care. I don’t care to judge the people of today by the actions of the past, I may feel sorry that the Jews were subjected to such an atrocity, but I don’t care about Germanys past when I judge it today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
Ged- i know but they were the ones that attacked us do we sit here and die because we might be called violent? no, we have to defend our selves.
Defence is one thing, this is quite another, this is instructions for how to wage a war against 'those who disbelieve', (notice it doesn’t say ‘those who would seek to harm you’, it says 'those who disbelieve' meaning anyone who does not believe in that religion,) when you meet them in 'regular battle'.
How can this be seen as a statement of self-defence?

And before you go on, I don’t want to hear 'well back then un-believers were attacking us'.
You and I both know that doesn’t float.

-DarthMaul- September 4th, 2004 06:42 AM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
what are you an imam or something? whose who disbelieve are the one that didnt believe in god.

ColdHaven September 4th, 2004 06:36 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladtemplar
Dont be so stuck up.
All that is true, but it happened thousands of years ago. The Muslims are doing that stuff NOW in 21 century!!:mad: I guess you havent read any previous posts!
Thousands? Perhaps the actual battles back then were, but let us look no further than about eight hundred years ago. Shoot, even right up to the settlement of the colonists, Puritans and such used the Bible to condone the atrocities of the Inquisition (which continued on until the 1500's), witch trials, hanging of blacks, and so on. You can't tell me that the material found in the Bible does not condone these things, and people have not used them today to justify their actions because they do.

If you want to know real terrorism, look back to 1979 when America invaded Iraq and set up a very well known person by the name of Sadaam Hussein. America put him there using the same acts of terror that we now are supposedly fighting.

El Hombre del Fuego September 4th, 2004 06:59 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
The Koran does not support terrorists. The Bible does not support the Inquisition or the Crusades.

It sounds to me like you boys are looking for a scapegoat. If I suddenly said that I was evolutionist, and shot random creationists, would that mean evolution supports violence? Personally, I dont think so. I think it means that I would be one sick SOB.

It is the same for the terrorists. Just because they say they are Muslim does not mean that all Muslim people are like them. It doesnt mean that the Koran preaches violence.

Here's another example: Attila the Hun and his cronies sweep across the civilized world. Attila happens to be Athiest, he made that quite clear during some points in his life. (He claimed his sword was from Mars for the intimidation value) And yet, Athiests are not held accountable for his actions. They shouldnt, either.

SpiderGoat September 5th, 2004 02:19 AM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA1
The Koran does not support terrorists. The Bible does not support the Inquisition or the Crusades.

It sounds to me like you boys are looking for a scapegoat. If I suddenly said that I was evolutionist, and shot random creationists, would that mean evolution supports violence? Personally, I dont think so. I think it means that I would be one sick SOB.

It is the same for the terrorists. Just because they say they are Muslim does not mean that all Muslim people are like them. It doesnt mean that the Koran preaches violence.
USA, we are simply trying to undermine his idea that Islam is THE violent religion of the world, while all others (Christian f.e.) are peaceful. The crusades kinda blow away this theory. Of course Christianity in itself is not violent, but people will always use religion as an excuse for killing. Just like they are using Islam as an excuse now. The jedi here seems to forget the social-political context of the Middle-east.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USA1
Here's another example: Attila the Hun and his cronies sweep across the civilized world. Attila happens to be Athiest, he made that quite clear during some points in his life. (He claimed his sword was from Mars for the intimidation value)
Attila was superstitious, and therefore not a real atheist. And claiming that a sword comes from the God of War isn't really atheistic.

Nemmerle September 5th, 2004 08:52 AM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
whose who disbelieve are the one that didnt believe in god.
:rolleyes: And that makes it all better?
Whether someone believes or not, it does not make it anymore justified.

-DarthMaul- September 5th, 2004 08:58 AM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
it was a war already! they started it! and it went on for a while.

El Hombre del Fuego September 5th, 2004 01:26 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Oh, sorry SG. Sometimes I just skim a long thread before posting, as you probably figured out from before.

In that case, in the modern world, Irish Catholicism (you MUST appreciate how difficult it is for me to say this) and Islam are the most violent faiths. The reasons being the godamned IRA and the Islamic terrorists. I stick to my opinion that violence is not encouraged by religion, and is carried out by a few people pushed to the brink of madness for some reason or another.



I am not an authority on Attila the Hun, but the information I provided I found in multiple places (one of which was my 7th grade history, so it's probably a little inaccurate) and that's why I posted it.

Dreadnought[DK] September 5th, 2004 02:40 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA1
Irish Catholicism (you MUST appreciate how difficult it is for me to say this) [...] the most violent faiths. The reasons being the godamned IRA
the irish republican cause is not religiously motivated. it is true that they're fighting a protestant country, but it's not a holy war. the IRA being catholic doesn't make catholicism a religion of violence.

El Hombre del Fuego September 5th, 2004 02:48 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
I know that. I think I actually posted something of that nature somewhere up there, and I am Catholic myself. Maybe I should back off posting here for a while?

-Logic-Is-A-Virtue- September 5th, 2004 02:52 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
I am sure that somewhere in the IRA is a faction that is anti-protestant and anti-british. It is not hard for some uneducated people in that environment to see them as the same thing (unfortunately).

Nemmerle September 5th, 2004 06:16 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
It was a war already!
War?
Against everyone who did not believe in god on the entire planet?
Considering the logistics and technology of the age I find that hard to credit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
They started it!
:vikki: The oldest and weakest excuse.
Surely even your parents gave you an answer for this one?
But if they did not I shall; 'I don't care who started it, it's time to finish it.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMaul
and it went on for a while.
Oh dear.
The thing with the past is. Such events only have power because we allow it them. You see, although it may have gone on for a while, the past of man is no more or less than how we perceive. In this case it's just in a book, if you chose to ignore it, allow it no mastery of you, then it’s just words, detailing a history that no one has lived.

-DarthMaul- September 5th, 2004 06:21 PM
Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 
-no, it was a war aginst the non-believers that attacked us(islam).

-they did start it, and now it IS over, you dont see us fighting them any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ged
when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if ALLAH had so pleased, HE could have punished them Himself, but HE has willed that HE may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of ALLAH - HE will never render their works vain
what this Verse means, when you meet the disbelievers in battle, fighting aginst you, slay them, and if the war stops, you either release the prisoners you have or ask them for your prisoners, and give them thier prisoners.
this was in our defense, they came to attack us, we arent fighting anymore.


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