Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I'm sorry to put it bluntly, but, you are wrong. If killing is killing, then according to your logic, murdering someone for no reason, and protecting you country or family is exactly the same, both wrong. You are wrong there also.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

No it's Qu'ran, Koran is a curry I think......

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

wow..this belongs in the melee

EDIT: no, koran is just the american way of spelling it. not a curry :lol:

~

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I am wrong?

Proof?


Lets follow your jingoistic and paranoid logic then:

Ok so by your reasoning you justify killing, whatever the means whatever the ends. Since any end can be manipulated to the ultimate one of "self defense". Fair enough.

But may I remind you that the Nazis genuinely believed that Jews and Soviets constituted a "threat" to their families and society.

So if 6 million Jews and 25 million Russians along with countless other Germans is a valid argument for protecting your country... good for you.


And tell me... how did Sodom and Gomorrah constitute a "threat" to a supposedly omnipotent and omnipresent entity.

Second how does any creator who calls themself good kills his own creations, made in his own image [granted allowing people to die is one thing... killing them is another]


And you still can't deny the fact that the Old Testament is fundamentally about smiting and unforgiveness. The fact that you are debating about God's intention to kill further demonstrates this...





Koran and Qu'ran are accepted spellings for the same word, just as Offence and Offense, Specialisation and Specialization, Manoeuver and Manoeuvre are accepted spellings for the same word.

Quod Erat Demonstratum.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Why?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Vladtemplar(out numbered unless someone i dont want to mention joins this thread)
you need to talk to muslims or read from a reliable site befor talking about them like that.
ok ill start a thread(not yet), any one that has questions about islam ill answer them...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I haven't read any proof so far in this thread that MODERN Islam is not promoting violence in some people's views. MODERN Christianity/Buddism/Whatever do not motivate people to kill for their God like Islam does.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

and when did msulims kill for allah?
and please name some reasonable time, why do you have so much hatred for islam and muslims? is there some Jewish( i dont care what you say they hate us too), fueling you with lies and propaganda? have you been reading Chick Tracts latley? have you ever heard of me running around killing for allah?

Edit: i forgot to add a thanks for the people that defended islam on this thread.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Ok, and according to your very twisted "logic" you'd think it wrong to fight against the nazis, condemning the world to the rule of hitler.

In the old testatment God commands the people of the earth to obey him, read the 10 commandments, that sums it all up nicely. the people of soddom and gomorrah were breaking every single one of these commandments over and over and over and over every day. So God was going to judge them, and justly so. However, a man talked with God and asked him to spare the city for the sake of 10 rightous, and God agreed! 10 rightous in 2 very large citys, and God would have spared it. That proves that he is not a lunitic out to kill us all.

Once again, before you go condemning the teachings of the Bible, why don't you go and read it.

This discussion is over. (this section of it anyway :))

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Actually I'm all for business...

It's not your logic so much as your hypocrisy I'm questioning.

10 Commandments had nothing to do with Sodom and Gomorrah.

And "Thou shalt not Kill" was strictly mentioned by god. Point being he broke his own rule.

Proof?

Explanation?

Righteous by [i]his[i] standards. Meaning that if you weren't divine and you didn't curry special favour you were f*cked. And that still doesn't detract from the fact that they were smited. Whatever Sodom and Gomorrah's sins he still killed them thus breaking his own cardinal rule - Thou shalt not Kill. Not "Thou shalt not kill unless thou wishest to deal Righteous Judgement"... "Thou shalt NOT Kill"

Quod erat demonstratum.

Thus you still can't deny the fact that the Bible among others is about smiting and punishment rather than guidance and forgiveness [Jesus was about that but his disciples tended to twist that].



And if you want to be particularly pedantic about "God's Laws"

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Those "wrong' parts are still in the bible, they only are not told/discussed by the modern members of the church (priests etc.). Same goes for the Koran, the "wrong"parts are still there and most imams don't tell/discuss them. Some do however but there are alsi christian priests who discuss the "wrong" parts (that the man standa above the women etc.).

Infact the koran and bible really look a like, some parts are even exactly the same. Both the koran and bible say contradicting parts (one part says that the man stands above the woman, an other parts says that they are equel and an other parts says that the woman stands above the man) this applies to both the bible and the koran.

Some parts out of the koran:


The Holy Qur'án

the koran often comes in the news. Some extremistische moslims justify their war against the west with it. judgements about homosexuality are based on it. But what exactly is said in the holy book about for example the use of violence or the relation between man and woman? And how should these parts be interpreted?

Sura 47 vers 4, About the war with the nonbelievers

Dying is a duty for the muslim


ROTTERDAM, 9 OKT. 2001 - One of the clearest parts about the war between muslims and the foreign nonbelievers http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/volledigartikel.gif

----

Sura 4 vers 34, about the position of man and woman.
http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/koran3manvrouw.gif


The islam puts the woman above the man


ROTTERDAM, 10 OKT. The koran has many versen about the woman. One of the most note worthy is Sura 4 vers 34. http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/volledigartikel.gif


-----


Sura 5 vers 33 about the level of punishment


http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/koran1straf.jpg


Cutting of bodyparts of terrorists


ROTTERDAM, 11 OKT. 2001 - Body punishment in Islamic countries such as iran and Sudan recall indignation in the west.Those countries base their sentence policy on the sharia, the Islamic legislation. http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/volledigartikel.gif


----


Sura 7 vers 81 about homoseksuality


http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/koran4homo.gif


Non-practisising homo is a good homo.


ROTTERDAM, 12 OKT. 2001 - he proposition of the rotterdamse imam El-Moumni that homoseksualiteit a contagious sickness is and a threat forms for the society, caused this spring the necessary upheaval. http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/volledigartikel.gif

-----

modernisering of the koran


Turky modernises the way the koran is explained. ANKARA - The Turkish directorate for religion matter will adapt the traditional explanation of the koran to the modern time. Passages concerning for example polygamy, slavery, beating women and law of inheritance become to reconsider, in the light of current insights.http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/volledigartikel.gif

-------
Infact the man is the slave of the woman


Infact the man is the slave of the woman.ISTANBUL - does Islam believe in the equality of man and woman? , no '', say the liberal Turkish hoogleraar and theoloog Zekerya Beyaz decides. , according to Islam the man must look after the woman. It is the responsibility of the man all that well reilt and sails in house and that bread on the beam comes there. In fact the man is therefore the slave of the woman'' http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/volledigartikel.gif


---------
each other seemingly contradicting texts


Do not let you by each other seemingly contradicting texts from the Qur'án of wise bring, because exact there for that is that: to let reflect you independently and your own gone of mental development to follow. Because nobody, really nobody can take over, dát of you. No ayatollah, mullah or imam.


-----------
source: http://www.wereldeenheid.nl/koran.htm

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

I do not hate people that follow any religions. As a matter of fact, I do not hate anyone. And, if you havent been reading my other threads, I am not a Christian. I follow the Jedi code.
Seem like your anti-semitic mind is being clouded by your beliefs.

Whatch any of the terrorist beheading videos. What do they keep repeating while cutting someones head off, or watching a truck full of people being blown up??

They keep saying ALLAH AKBAR- which means I think Allah is great!
:0wned:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Thats as "bad" as a christian saying "god be praised" "in gods name" "god is with us" or even "god bless america" etc.

If you want to homour your lord it is ok. (blowing yourself up causing lots of innocent victems is not however).

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

:vikki: Did someone tell you Star War was only a movie?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

#1: im not anti-semetic. do you see me running around saying bad things about judism? no.
#2: i have been reading your other threads that spread lies about islam.
#3: yes, allah is great, who wouldnt consider his god to be great?
#4: those iraqies are bad muslims and niehter me nor my family suppport what they do or say.(beheading)
:0wned:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Did someone tell you Bible is just a book written by a bunch of guys living in a desert?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Did someone tell you that many Jedi disciplines are directly ripped off from various branches of Buddhism.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Islam isn't a violent religion at all, fundamentatlists just interpret it to make it look like what they are doing is right.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Yes, he knows, your point?

So a terrorist screaming Allah Akbar is your proof? Yes, that 'powned' smily was in place :rolleyes:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

the tone of this thread is getting unfriendly. keep it nice or go away!

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

please be so kind to take both your ignorance and arrogance and leave.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Nobody had to tell me, I already know and frankly, I care about the bible as much as I care about Star War. But however I can make a difference between a religion and a movie. And you?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

And would the Crusades be proof that Christianity is a violent religion? How about the Spanish Inquisition, or the Salem Witch Trials? A lot of horrible things were done in the name of Christianity too, you know.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

notice the sarcastic smiley, but he was aiming it and vladtemplar.
Vladtemplar is :0wned: unless some "jedi knight" come shere and helps him he still outnumbered. there gonna make me hate star wras now.... :(

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

im muslim here.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Well said. I agree.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

the main difference between the muslim terrorists and the christian... uhhm... actions is that they were mostly aproved by the pope or another high religious figure. not by a few random idiots who use the koran for their own purposes.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Eh, yeah, I know that, and I've posted that same remark a couple of times? Now, what is the connection with my post and this one?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

A pope gets to approve if some thing is terrorism or not? :rolleyes:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

The Crusade argument is a load of PC rubbish... in many an occasion the Christian crusaders and their masters were more intent on plundering Byzantium. And the whole Us V them mentality is proved utterly wrong by the example of Venice. The Pope gathered a coalition of some significant European powers to curb and reduce the influence of Venice which was a principle military and commercial asset AGAINST the Turks.

Obviously some Xians hated the Muslims... just as some muslims now hate Xians but that doesn't justify calling a whole faith violent.

To do that you need to analyse the scripture and customs respective of each faith.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

The terrorists are chanting " Allah is great" while they behead people and blow up buildings. Just watch any of the released tapes.

I know that Star Wars is just a movie and a book. Thats not the point. I do not belive that there is Empire and all that stuff out there. The Jedi code was created by writers, and it combines elements of many Eastern religions and beliefs. I just believe in what it stands for.

My point was that the Bible and Koran and other "holy" book were written by men, just like the Star Wars novel. They are not any hollier or different then any other fiction written by men.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Alright I want to know from a muslim. Is the correct spelling Qu'Ran or is Koran acceptable?

Anyway, Islam can be a violent religion. If the holy text is interpreted wrong. Saying that the whole religion is violent isn't true. But denying that some fanatics are using religion violently is also not true. I stand by my view thta thes terrorists are idiots who deserve to be shot. Some muslims are taking the whole religion too seriously, Some being the Key word.
On a side note: Wtf!!! Crusades, they happened centuries ago, I dont see any Christian fanatics going around blowing up skyscrapers!
But it is sad that people are going around killing innocents because of something, no1 can be sure is true.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Thats what I been saying. The Christian Crusades happen in 14 century. Its 21 century now, and we have no place for violence in modern society. Some Islamists are still in the medieval mindset, and believe that the whole Western world is agaist them, which is not true of course.
Yet these religious Islamist fanatics still go out to kill in the name of Allah,as seen in the released videos by terrorists.

Among the 20 slain militants were 10 Arabs, Andreyev said. The Arab presence would support President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites)'s contention that al-Qaida terrorists were involved in the Chechen conflict, where Muslim fighters have been battling Russian forces in a brutal war of independence on and off since the early 1990s.
From AP

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

yes it was a long time ago and they were christians, they cant be terrorists. :rolleyes: . Vladtemplay if you havent noticed you said they fough for inependence. theres a good cause for fighting, not fighting for allah like most retards say. besides what percent of muslims are terrorists? 5% maybe even less.
no religion has 0% terrorism.

also forgot to add: Muslims DON'T support this beheadings and the way they are done, my dad dosent approve f it either, it isnt the way of islam to kill a civilian. slaughtering(beheading) is only done to animals(beef, cows, goats, etc.)
and thats when we say allah akbar. and this is mostly done on a holiday celebrating the prophet Abraham. again: we dont support beheadings at all, we dont support hem saying beheadings.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Japanese Shinto, Tibetan monks, Catholics, Russian Orthodux, Baptists are just a few I can think of right now

I am not saying that every single muslim is a terrorist. Just seems like a lot are. Or maybe its just the Western media is trying to portray Muslims evil, and just showing violence caused by followers of Islam. I am sure they arent that bad:rolleyes:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

by catholics do you mean the ones that went slaughtering muslims in The Philipense because they wouldnt convert to catholicsm?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

?

Ow, and they are not sure yet if there were any Arab terrorists, though Poetin would like that.


@Grim_Grom: Darth Maul is a muslim.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

thats why i take this all seriously...

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

:rofl:
Japanese Shinto were warriors that based their religion on honor. They still attack rival groups for "dishonoring" them 100s of years ago.

Tibetan monks, ever heard of Maoist? It is a group of Warroir monks that have been attacking the Chinese ever sense China conquered Tibet.

Catholics have been killing protestants sense the begining and still are in some places.

Russain Orthodox I am sure have a small sect that kills Muslims just like the Muslims have a small sect that kill Jews.

I am not sure about Baptist because it is a small religion but I am sure I could find something.:nodding:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Well whatever, like it or not Islam is the religion with the most fanatics [Who are actually causing trouble] at the moment. It's a minority granted. But I dont see Catholics slaughtering bloody Protestants any more, whateevr you say is still happening. Stop defending these terrorsits by saying, "Oh other religions are at it too", because there bloody well not. Islam isn't a violent religion, but some people interpret it wrong.l And this needs to be stopped. There problem [the terrorists] is there ignorant, to the world around them. Every other persom, looks at other cultures, and says "OK, it's there beliefs I respect that". A terrorist seems to think there evil and against there religion. So lets go have a good old Jihad with our mates......

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

muslims always say that they must sacrifise them selves and give blood to allah or something like that, so watta they do?, fly 2 planes into the world trade center, one into the pentagon and they tryed to fly into the white house but where stopped by the passengers and flight crew. then they behead 2 ppl, well 2 as far as i know, an american and a korean. then, government backed, they go into extremely poor countrys i.e sudan, and start slaughtering ppl there and in one case, put a small baby on a fire.
so in my point of view, they are an extremly violant religion, im not sayin everyone is like that coz oviously they arent but a lot of them are

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

when you make a statement like that you forget one important issue: social context. you have to understand/remember what background they come from, why are they fighting, who are they fighting and perhaps even who is to blame. take a terror plagued country like iraq where people are 'terrorising' and religious fanatics are roaming. then take a country like turkey. are people burning flags there and cursing the evil empire (the US) or are there acts of terrorism everyday?
remember the social situation in 'terror countries' before you start blaming the religion as the cause.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Interesting point! Doesn't that make the Catholics worse then, since the violence and terror was condoned by the church and not just by a few random idiots.

I dont think Islam is a violent religion just misinterpreted and misunderstood by the people who belive it the most, the fanatics. But the terrorism has to stop!

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

http://www.meninhats.com/comics/20031112.gif


Funny comic but besides the point. Basically, every religion's hope is to make the world a better place and have it's inhabitants become better people. But when politics, tangled alliances and money gets involved, the original message is lost and people begin to stray from the religion. Right now, some Muslim extremists feel that they are living in the conditions they live in because of the US. Most Muslim nations are very poor and the rich ones (Arab countries) are all tied with the US and have made peace with Israel. Since extremists spend all day bashing Israel and the US, its no wonder that some people over there hate us. Because they have been BRAINWASHED! But you better believe there are many Muslims that just want to live out their lives in peace.

It's also a fact that these extremists care nothing for Muslims that want progress. For example:

- There have been 3 attempts on the life of Pakistan's president Musharraf by extremists (probably former Taliban elements or Al-Qaeda supporters inside Pakistan)

- Chechen rebels have fought a decade long war against Russia yet they continually kill Chechen police and government officials. They also intimidate local Chechens that want to take part in the voting process. Since most die, disappear in the night or never leave their homes, the Kremlin has to pick a leader.

- Terrorists kill government officials in Iraq almost on a weekly basis. They also kill police officers, university professors and soldiers that also just happen to be Muslims.

Those are just a few examples of how different regular Muslims are from the terrorists. Don't make your judgements of Muslims based on the acts of a few terrorists. The terrorists aren't on their side either even though they claim to be.....

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

prove it retard. expalin why im still alive dumbass(im pretty pissed at all these retards right now sorry).

sudan is a muslim country, it is christians that slaughter the muslims.

a couple of months ago chritians killed and slaughtered 76 muslims. who is the terrorist here?

The Philipinese government(christians now) are slaughtering muslims in Mandanow, because they want their freedom from thier government that keep attacking them.

Serbia's chritians slaughter thier muslim neighbours, FOR NO REASON.

who slaughtered muslims in slaughtering camps in lebonan?

who started world war 1?
who started world war 2?
who started all american wars?
who saved chritians from the romans, when they used to throw christians for the lions for entertainment?
who saved the orthodox(christians) from the catholics in spain?
who saved JEws and Christians in Jerusalim from the crusaders?
who stopped the crusaders?
who stopped genghis khan and his tartar hordes?

Name at least one war Muslims started.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Well said.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

that may be so but please remain calm anyway.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Technically given that the Qu'ran / Koran is an ARABIC word BOTH spellings are incorrect - you need the original arabic script for that.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

^ though in english both are correct.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence
 

Quod Erat Demonstratum