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Re: Islam- Religion of violence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekk9

You don't think the US people will call for peace and stability, especially when an ally (Russia) needs it most?

No I don't think that the US government would give a flying toss whether the Russians were brutal in Chechnya or not... unless its for their own gains [like in Afghanistan]

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Nosferatu

By your reasoning then the US doesn't make a contribution either.

Your ignorance is insulting to those people not from America who risk their lives in Afghanistan and elsewhere participating in the War against Terror

I'll I'm asking you to do is show me evidence of where those nations have participated in missions which involved capturing Osama Bin Laden and attacking local tribes that have pro-Taliban elements within them. Oh and the US supplies Pakistan with the help. Pakistan is broke, they would be lost without American support.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

no tekk9 that is where you r wrong anywhere ther is terriosts action that is where the U.S. has business to go. not that we should get involved in someone's civil war/uncivil war but if they support terrorism then we have a reason to be there.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

alright every one, name one time ARABS or MUSLIMS as a whole went over to a country and attacked it. oh and you cant say the attack on the school was Religiously motivated.

:Censored:

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

Warning for the next posters:
If this thread continues the way it is (I.E. flaming), it will be closed.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy Jesus

I think we have a responsibility to promote peace and prosperity all over the world. That is not to say that we should take it upon ourselves to fix everyone's problems. But if we don't do something, hundreds of thousands of people will be in big trouble. Here's a little perspective on the matter....

- Bosnia was essentially a civil war amongst the various ethnicities (Bosnian, Serb and Croatian) It started in 1992 with an alliance between the Bosnian Muslims and the Orthodox Greek Croatians. The US didn't intervene until 3 years later in 1995. By that time, all three factions were at war with each other. Well over 300,000 people were killed. The most memorable massacre in the war in the town of Srebrenica (sreb-brunn-neesa). This city was supposed to be guarded by UN FORCES and was said to be a safe haven. Guess what happened? THE UN FORCES ABANDONED THEIR POSITIONS AFTER THE SERBS ARRIVED! 8,000 Muslim men and boys were killed and thrown into ditches. That's how worthless the UN is. After that incident, US forces intervened and ended the war in guess how much time? 6 days.

- Rwanda was a civil war in which two factions (the Hutus and the Tutsis) faught a war based on class. For 100 days, people were massacred all over the country. But not with tanks, planes and missles. They were killed by being stabbed, bludgeoned, butchered and lit on fire. Being shot was something of a rarity. 800,000 people were believed to have been killed in that incident. The UN did NOTHING to stop the conflict and they only came after the war was rumored to have been dying down. That peace treaty ended and little under 50 UN soldiers were killed by Rwandans. Guess what they did? THEY SPLIT! Half their soldiers were told to go home and make room for the invading US force. Pathetic.....

- Kosovo was also another major event in which people were killed based on race. The Serbs said they were fighting terrorism. :rolleyes: They killed men, women and children in masse in the city of Pristina, over 900 died their alone. All in all, about 12,000 people were killed there. Hardly any of them included KLA forces.

- E. Timor was another great example of revolutionaries being killed by state controled forces and other nationalists. Without US intervention in that conflict, it would still be raging on and people would be killed just for speaking out. Today, the world recognizes East Timor as a sovereign nation.

Now I'm not lashing out, this is a perfectly reasonable debate. I'm asking, how is it not crucial to have US intervention? Do you not care for these people? If you turn a blind eye to a conflict that is so stupid as to being about race or religion, then you've basically sentenced those people to death. It's important to help when you can.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthMaul

alright every one, name one time ARABS or MUSLIMS as a whole went over to a country and attacked it. oh and you cant say the attack on the school was Religiously motivated.

:Censored:

We can't. I am just saying that most major terrorist groups nowadays are muslum or Arab or whatever you would like to call them. Greece has excepted this fact already publicly, I wish the rest of them would as well. The more countries that shun their religion because of extremist, the better chance we have at getting rid of them. If they know that they have no support, what will motivate them to fight?

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggus Dickus

Warning for the next posters:
If this thread continues the way it is (I.E. flaming), it will be closed.

i only said R****d you didnt have to take out the whole sentence.

to X-C, freedom.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

This is an article by MSNBC, these are sentiments of Arabs that are fed up with terrorists trying to destroy their religion's image.....

Quote:

Self-criticism in Arab media follows school siege
Al-Arabiya General manager: "Muslims are main perpetrators of terrorism"

The Associated Press

Updated: 6:32 a.m. ET Sept. 4, 2004

CAIRO, Egypt - Muslims worldwide are the main perpetrators of terrorism, a humiliating and painful truth that must be acknowledged, a prominent Arab writer and television executive wrote Saturday, as Middle East media and officials expressed horror at the bloody rebel siege of a Russian school.

Unusually forthright self-criticism followed the end of the hostage crisis, along with warnings that such actions inflict more damage to the image of Islam than all its enemies could hope. Arab leaders and Muslim clerics denounced the school seizure as unjustifiable and expressed their sympathy.

Russian commandos stormed the school Friday in Beslan, Russia; it had been taken over by rebels demanding independence for Chechnya. Russian officials said Saturday that the death toll was at least 250, with twice as many wounded. Many of the casualties were children.

Images of terrified young survivors being carried from the scene aired repeatedly on Arab TV stations. Pictures of dead and wounded children ran on front pages of Arab newspapers Saturday.

“Holy warriors” from the Middle East long have supported fellow Muslims fighting in Chechnya, and Russian officials said nine or 10 Arabs were among militants killed.

“Our terrorist sons are an end-product of our corrupted culture,” Abdulrahman al-Rashed, general manager of Al-Arabiya television wrote in his daily column published in the pan-Arab Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper. It ran under the headline, “The Painful Truth: All the World Terrorists are Muslims!”

'Humiliating, painful' picture
Al-Rashed ran through a list of recent attacks by Islamic extremist groups — in Russia, Iraq, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen — many of which are influenced by the ideology of Osama Bin Laden, the Saudi-born leader of the al-Qaida terror network.

“Most perpetrators of suicide operations in buses, schools and residential buildings around the world for the past 10 years have been Muslims,” he wrote. Muslims will be unable to cleanse their image unless “we admit the scandalous facts,” rather than offer condemnations or justifications.

“The picture is humiliating, painful and harsh for all of us,” al-Rashed wrote.

Contributors to Islamic Web sites known for their extremist content had mixed reactions on the hostage crisis, with some praising the separatists. Others wrote that people should wait until the militants had been identified before implicating Arabs in the drama.

Ahmed Bahgat, an Egyptian Islamist, wrote in his column in Egypt’s leading pro-government newspaper, Al-Ahram, that hostage-takers in Russia as well as in Iraq are only harming Islam.

“If all the enemies of Islam united together and decided to harm it ... they wouldn’t have ruined and harmed its image as much as the sons of Islam have done by their stupidity, miscalculations, and misunderstanding of the nature of this age,” Bahgat wrote.

'A new low'
The horrifying images of the dead and wounded Russian students “showed Muslims as monsters who are fed by the blood of children and the pain of their families.”

An editorial in the Saudi English-language Arab News put some blame for the bloody end to the school siege on Russian President Vladimir Putin, saying he couldn’t afford to lose his “tough-man image.” But it added that “the Chechens, with the choice of their targets, had put themselves in a position where no one would shed tears when the punishment came. They reached a new low when they chose toddlers as bargaining chips.”

Heads of state from Egypt, Lebanon and Kuwait offered their sympathy Friday to Russian officials and to the families of people caught up in the hostage drama. A prominent Muslim cleric also denounced it.

“What is the guilt of those children? Why should they be responsible for your conflict with the government?” Egypt’s top Muslim cleric, Grand Sheik Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, was quoted as saying during a Friday sermon in Banha, 30 miles north of Cairo.

“You are taking Islam as a cover and it is a deceptive cover; those who carry out the kidnappings are criminals, not Muslims,” Tantawi, who heads Al-Azhar University, the highest authority in the Sunni Islamic world, was quoted by Egypt’s Middle East News agency as saying.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

This was my favorite line from the reading.....

Quote:

“the Chechens, with the choice of their targets, had put themselves in a position where no one would shed tears when the punishment came. They reached a new low when they chose toddlers as bargaining chips.”

They know the reputation they have. They know that things need to be changed. Don't think for a minute that all Muslims are terrorists. They are not. And a lot are fed up with being called terrorists all the time. The people above are very prominent members of their societies.

Re: Islam- Religion of violence

I dunno if this has been said or not.

Islam ain't a violent power. Take a look back in history before people carried around small bombs to blow themselves up. Take a look at the Islamic Empire. It spanned from Spain to the Middle East.

http://img21.exs.cx/img21/3603/Arab_Empire.gif

Now if the Arabs are violent uncivilised people, how in the world did they get that. I'm sure it wasn't from uncoordinated suicide charges. They needed to be advanced, intelligent and resourceful.

I'm sure their religion helped them make their empire. Now you can't say it's a violent religion then. Because you see other empires with less "Violent" religions guiding them.