also forgot to add. if it wasnt for george bush we wouldnt have had a 9/11, you know why?
whenever and arab country asks for help at the UN america veto's. because we support israel even thou almost the whole world knows what they do is wrong, but we still help them. bush says israel dosent have to go back to 1954 boarders(or was it a diff year?)
bush dosent support palastinians. there are many more reasons. at other countries, france banns muslim girls from wearing viels/scarffs come on they want to wear it, they dont want to show thier skin like other girls do. in germany and britain they teach thier students about islam.(not to get them converted, but just to give them an idea that islam is peacful, which some people ehre need to go take ASAP)
Yes, it seems militant, but no more so than parts of the Bible referring to the proper way to rape women in battle (according to Deuteronomy, in battle a man should take the woman as his concubine for a period of time, and after which if she wishes to leave she can), or the references by Moses to go and slaughter women, children, friend and family when they were not obeying God? I believe that was right after they had escaped from Egypt. What about every battle in the Bible? God never seemed to have mercy there. I think you need to be a bit more educated about your own texts before referencing someone else's.
I think you need to realise I'm not a Christian.
My religion has no limiting texts or pre-built morals, it is a belief in the nature of life nothing more nothing less.
Oh wow! You're right! I never figured that they were people! So good of you to remind me of it. That is my point. People cause hate and murder, not certain religions. People want someone they can use as a scapegoat. In the Inquisition it was the pagans and Jews...in WWII it was the Jews also. The Crusades was the Christian movement to erradicate the Muslim's growth as a religion. Too many were converting back then to Islam, and the Catholic Church could not stand for it. It is blind hate and orthodoxy which always muddle things between God and people.
How about the more violent verses in the Qu'Ran? Like (and I forget the exact wording)
"And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if ALLAH had so pleased, HE could have punished them Himself, but HE has willed that HE may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of ALLAH - HE will never render their works vain."
Yes I think it was something like that. Rather militant wouldn’t you say?
you guys need ot prove this with the actual verse and sura. most of the battles in the quran are aimed toward unbelievers.(people that prayed to statues made out of dough then ate them ). i would explain one battle that happend(jews were suppose to be on our side) but peopel will call me an"anti-semetic" so im not.
Last edited by DarthMaul; September 3rd, 2004 at 06:14 PM.
Oh wow! You're right! I never figured that they were people! So good of you to remind me of it. That is my point. People cause hate and murder, not certain religions. People want someone they can use as a scapegoat. {etc}
A religion is made by the people who follow it. Without people religion is only a word, a name, less than nothing.
also forgot to add. if it wasnt for george bush we wouldnt have had a 9/11, you know why?
whenever and arab country asks for help at the UN america veto's. because we support israel even thou almost the whole world knows what they do is wrong, but we still help them. bush says israel dosent have to go back to 1954 boarders(or was it a diff year?)
bush dosent support palastinians. there are many more reasons. at other countries, france banns muslim girls from wearing viels/scarffs come on they want to wear it, they dont want to show thier skin like other girls do. in germany and britain they teach thier students about islam.(not to get them converted, but just to give them an idea that islam is peacful, which some people ehre need to go take ASAP)
I see where you are coming from DarthMaul but don't politicize this issue. What we're discussing is Islam at it's core. Which is a peaceful religion that was created in a tough neighborhood (Mongol invaders to the East, the 2nd Holy Roman empire to the West and right among, various Arab pagan tribes. Not to mention the Persians that were the hardest to convert to Islam and the Jewish tribes that allied themselves with the pagan Arabs during Islam's growth). The reason for all the defensive/offensive verses is because they would probably become the least welcome religion in that region and sure enough, the world. But it wasn't the Muslims who isolated themselves, during their attempt to spread, they stepped on a few toes and made enemies for life. Today is a different day, though. People who would once be at total war are now doing business on a day-to-day basis. (Can you believe just 60 years ago, France killed over 200,000 people in Algeria? Now France is a nation that does more business with more Mid-East nations than most).
But these terrorists do not want to conform to the times. They still believe that borders are static, even in 1948. When Israel was created, it was the biggest slap to the face the Arab world could have ever received. But most Arabs realize that it's gonna be harder to conquer nations like Israel these days because of how the world united over the years. But these terrorists don't recognize the U.N. as a respectable body. They don't respect the EU, even when they did so much for Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo. NATO also played a major role in the Balkans yet these terrorists want nothing to do with them! They are idiots. The Muslims that are not causing problems are very smart. They are looking to improve their lives. These terrorists, they are wasting their time and they're killing innocent people, including their own people.....
you guys need ot prove this with the actual verse and sura.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surah 47
47: 1. In the name of ALLAH, the Gracious, the Merciful.
47: 2. Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of ALLAH - HE renders their works vain.
47: 3. But as for those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in that which has been revealed to Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - HE removes from them their sins and sets right their affairs.
47: 4. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does ALLAH set forth for men their lessons by similitudes. 47: 5. And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if ALLAH had so pleased, HE could have punished them Himself, but HE has willed that HE may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of ALLAH - HE will never render their works vain.
47: 6. HE will guide them to success and will improve their condition.
47: 7. And will admit them into the Garden which HE has made known to them.
47: 8. O ye who believe ! if you help the cause of ALLAH, HE will help you and will make your steps firm.
47: 9. But those who disbelieve, perdition is their lot; and HE will make their works vain.
47: 10. That is because they hate what ALLAH has revealed; so HE has made their works vain.
47: 11. Have they not traveled in the earth and seen what was the end of those who were before them ? ALLAH utterly destroyed them, and for the disbelievers there will be the like thereof.
47: 12. That is because ALLAH is the Protector of those who believe, and the disbelievers have no protector.
47: 13. Verily, ALLAH will cause those who believe and do good works to enter the Gardens underneath which streams flow; While those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat even as the cattle eat, and the Fire will be their last resort.
47: 14. And how many a township, mightier than thy town which has driven thee out, have WE destroyed, and they had no helper.
47: 15. Then, is he who takes his stand upon a clear proof from his Lord like those to whom the evil of their deeds is made to look attractive and who follow their low desires ?
47: 16. A description of the Garden promised to the righteous: Therein are streams of water which corrupts not; and streams of milk of which the taste changes not; and streams of wine, a delight to those who drink; and streams of clarified honey. And in it they will have all kinds of fruit, and forgiveness from their Lord. Can those who enjoy such bliss be like those who abide in the Fire and who are given boiling water to drink so that it tears their bowels ?
47: 17. And among them are some who seems to listen to thee till, when they go forth from thy presence, they say to those who have been given knowledge, `What has he been talking about just now ?' These are they upon whose hearts ALLAH has set a seal, and who follow their own evil desires.
47: 18. But as for those who follow guidance, HE adds to their guidance, and bestows on them righteousness suited to their condition.
47: 19. The disbelievers wait not but for the Hour, that it should come upon them suddenly. The Signs thereof have already come. But of what avail will their admonition be to them when it has actually come upon them.
47: 20. Know, therefore, that there is no god other than ALLAH, and ask protection for thy human frailties, and for believing men and believing women. And ALLAH knows the place where you move about and the place where you stay.
47: 21. And those who believe say, `Why is not a Surah revealed ?' But when a decisive Surah is revealed and fighting is mentioned therein, thou seest those in whose hearts is a disease, looking towards thee like the look of one who is fainting on account of approaching death. So woe to them !
47: 22. Their attitude should have been one of obedience and of calling people to good. And when the matter was determined upon, it was good for them if they were true to ALLAH.
47: 23. Would you not then, if you are placed in authority, create disorder in the land and sever your ties of kinship ?
47: 24. It is these whom ALLAH has cursed, so that HE has made them deaf and has made their eyes blind.
47: 25. Will they not, then, ponder over the Qur'an, or, is it that there are locks on their hearts ?
47: 26. Surely, those who turn their backs after guidance has become manifest to them, Satan has seduced them and holds out false hopes to them.
47: 27. That is because they said to those who hate what ALLAH has revealed, `We will obey you in some matters, and ALLAH knows their secrets.
47: 28. But how will they fare when the angels will cause them to die, smiting their faces and their backs ?
47: 29. That is because they followed that which displeased ALLAH, and disliked the seeking of HIS pleasure. So HE rendered their works vain.
47: 30. Do those in whose hearts is a disease suppose that ALLAH will not bring to light their malice ?
47: 31. And if WE pleased, WE could show them to thee so that thou shouldst know them by their marks. And thou shalt, surely, recognize them by the tone of their speech. And ALLAH knows your deeds.
47: 32. And WE will, surely, try you, until WE make manifest those among you who strive for the cause of ALLAH and those who are steadfast. And WE will make known the true facts about you.
47: 33. Those, who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of ALLAH and oppose the Messenger after guidance has become manifest to them, shall not harm ALLAH in the least; and HE will make their works fruitless.
47: 34. O ye who believe ! obey ALLAH and obey the Messenger and make not your works vain.
47: 35. Verily, those who disbelieve and hinder people from the way of ALLAH, and then die while they are disbelievers - ALLAH certainly, will not forgive them.
47: 36. So be not slack and sue not for peace, for you will, certainly, have the upper hand. And ALLAH is with you, and HE will not deprive you of the reward of your actions.
47: 37. The life of this world is but a sport and a pastime, and if you believe and be righteous, HE will give you your rewards, and will not ask of you your wealth.
47: 38. Were HE to ask it of you and press you, you would be ******dly, and HE would bring to light your malice.
47: 39. Behold ! You are those who are called upon to spend in the way of ALLAH; but of you there are some who are ******dly. And whoso is ******dly, is ******dly only against his own soul. And ALLAH is Self-Sufficient, and it is you who are needy. And if you turn your backs, HE will bring in your place another people; then they will not be like you.
in islam who ever kills(for fun or no reason) is killed. the government kills the killer. Magicians are killed. some one who is married and has sex with some one other then his wife/husbandwn rocks at until he/she dies.
The meaning of jihad:
-Jehad-bil-saaf (Armed struggle)
In this kind of Jihad, The Muslims organize themselves under an 'Ameir' (Leader) and start their struggle against the enemy. Enemies can be of different types i.e. Jehad-bil-saaf can be declared against an attacking enemy or it can be declared against an enemy state, which is either torching the Muslim populations in that country or trying to create trouble for an Islamic State. Jehad-bil-saaf is what others (Non-Muslims) know as 'The Holy War' of Muslims...
-Jehad-e-Akbar (to prevent yourself from committing indecent acts)
Jehad-e-Akbar is the most difficult form of Jihad because in this form of Jihad, one must have to be very careful about his daily life deeds. Jehad-e-Akbar means 'The Biggest Jihad' (As 'Akbar' means big, great).
-Jehad-bil-Elum (to tell others about right way who does not know it)
Jehad-bil-Elum means to spread the light of knowledge to others, to tell people about right and wrong, to tell people how to live their daily life and how to behave with other Muslims and Non-Muslims. This clearly shows how much Islam gives importance to Knowledge and its teacher. A teacher who is busy doing his job is considered to be involved in this pious and noble Jihad.
-Jehad-bil-Mall (to spend your wealth for Allah, in the way of Allah)
Jehad-bil-Mall means that if a [person] for some reason cannot himself participate in the noble event like Jihad, he can contribute in Jihad by helping 'Mujahedien' (Muslim Soldiers). A person can also contribute with his money even if he himself [is not] taking [an] active part in Jihad."
again, killing in the qur'an is mostly toward Un-Believers/Dis0believers.
It would appear that Islam is going through the period of violence and upheaval that Christianity went through a few hundred years ago. The main reason, I think, that the Muslim world didn't keep up with Europe in economical and social advancement is because Christianity couldn't conquer it, and whatever Christianity couldn't conquer it in effect put an embargo on. Since the rest of the world, in one way or another, was taken over by Christianity, this had the effect of isolating Muslim nations. Look at all the other countries that have advanced: In the Americas, Christianity was forced on the local populace. In Asia, Christianity was integrated into their current religions. Not surprising, since the Asians tend to have a different way of viewing things and don't see any problem with blending different beliefs of different religions together. I'm not trying to be mean to Islam, and if anything I'm being critical of Christianity. It seems that whenever Christianity finds a populace that it cannot either conquer or subdue, it says "Screw you guys, I'm playing with my toys over here instead."
Thanks Xenomorph. Thats what I been saying this whole time. The Middle East is stuck in the past. I am sure you all can see that
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdHaven
Yes, it seems militant, but no more so than parts of the Bible referring to the proper way to rape women in battle (according to Deuteronomy, in battle a man should take the woman as his concubine for a period of time, and after which if she wishes to leave she can), or the references by Moses to go and slaughter women, children, friend and family when they were not obeying God? I believe that was right after they had escaped from Egypt. What about every battle in the Bible? God never seemed to have mercy there. I think you need to be a bit more educated about your own texts before referencing someone else's.
Dont be so stuck up.
All that is true, but it happened thousands of years ago. The Muslims are doing that stuff NOW in 21 century!! I guess you havent read any previous posts!
Last edited by Biggus Dickus; September 3rd, 2004 at 08:04 PM.
Reason: Double post merged
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Re: Islam- Religion of violence 
). i would explain one battle that happend(jews were suppose to be on our side) but peopel will call me an"anti-semetic" so im not. 
I guess you havent read any previous posts! 
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