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This thread is meaningless, there is no definite proof for god's existince, but no definite antithesis. While I believe in a God, I can show an atheist a bible, but he can also say it isn't true. Maybe if you stopped preaching YOUR gospel for a second, you'd realize that it's a much better agreement to, instead of bickering, work together, find out how both theories can be together, and still stand true.

i feel that no matter their view on god they are all way right
for an example you may h8 the idea of god but other like the idea of god , in my mind god exist in the minds of those who belive,, so if you don't belive in god then he doesn't exist to you but if you do belive in god then he does exist to you there shoudl not be debates about weather or not he exist because it is up to you if he does not any1 else .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easykiller

Exactly, like I said in the beginning of the thread. It's all a matter of faith. :nodding:

thanks no matter wot you say you all have a faith , a faith in god or a faith in not belive in god

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP(NL)

religion is the easy way out.

"I don't understand how this and this and this happend."
believing a magical deity from above snapped his fingers and *poof* there was life, is much easier to understand than evolution and most big bang theories...

But I believe the deities work through the laws of science. They created the earth by setting up the conditions for the big bang. They created life by setting up the conditions for life to start. They helped living things evolve by putting in natural selection into the way of the world.

Galeforce, It's just fun to discuss and debate beliefs with other people. We're not bickering, just debating, listening to other people's point of views, and often you can learn a lot about religion by simply talking about it with others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grishank

My religion doesn't involve any holy texts so I'll ignore the holy texts rebuttal.

What's ur religion again?:P just curious. Not gotta judge u by it but wud love to know.

Galeforce is right, there was bickering. It's fun to debate and argue, but when there's name callin and narrow-minded-ness it's no fun anymore. But it's not as simple as just melding all the theories. All in all.. i think it's fairly important to listen to ur heart, and not what things tell you (like holy texts and other people) No matter what ur upbringing or have been taught, God is there, and He will reach out to you if u'd just listen to Him. At least this is what i've felt.

Intricate design.. is one of the major reasons i believe in a God. Or a Creator at least.

There is no proof of a diety "God" as most will argue for or against. I believe that "god" is the whole, however big or endless that may be.

On fact that no one can argue with is that there are undocumented laws to this universe, such is the progress of science. Laws that apply to physics and keys to unlocking the powers of the universe. A grand design, an order...now how was this set into place?

Then there are our own laws to preservation of life which make up civil law. These were not made up by man, only a realization of how a society works. Every animal or living being are held to these boundaries of existance.

As for the unexplained elements, dreams(clairvoyance), intuition, and other unexplained natural instincts we posess....I don't know.

As for "God" I humble my insignificant self to the awesome might and vastness of the universe. And as a living being I am significant in that itself.

I skimmed through this thread and have to say, whether or not there is a god doesn't matter to me. The bible is just writing, it doesn't prove anything. But atheists don't believe there is anything. The thing is none of this can be proven and probably will never be proven. BTW, not all atheists will tell you, colonel bob, that your stupid. I'm not atheist, I'm not religious, I'm neither. Because of where I live I have to say that I'm catholic, even though I don't support religion. I'm spirtual, if you will, because I would be beaten to death or shot, because I live in a town full of fat, conservative, evangelistic, rednecks.

I found this at debatabase.org, and it jived with this thread...so here it is. http://gamingforums.com/images/smilies/smilie.gif

Context (Written by Joe Devanny (England))

The big question. The ultimate metaphysical debate. It has occupied the world’s best minds for centuries. Can we know that God exists? How can you prove it? Many proofs have been offered by believers of many different religions. Offered here are arguments generated from within the JudaeoChristian and Islamic traditions.

pros

The world is so magnificent and wonderful, so full of variety and beauty, that it is inconceivable that it could have come about purely by chance. It is so intricate that a conscious hand must have been involved in its creation. Therefore, God exists as the creator of the world.

If you saw a watch lying on the sand you would think that there must have been someone who made the watch – a watchmaker. Similarly, we as human beings are so complicated and amazing that we must jump to the conclusion that we had a conscious maker.

Rational thought and deliberation are the purposes of human life. We are alone in that respect and it is an amazing fact that we are here at all. The world would only have to be infinitesimally different for no life to have evolved at all. Getting something so amazing, on such long odds, smacks of intention. Like a poker player dealing himself 100 winning hands on the trot.

God must be perfect if he exists. But a thing which exists is more perfect than a thing which doesn’t exist. But nothing can be more perfect than God. So God must exist.

Everything in the universe has a cause. It is inconceivable that time is one, long beginningless chain of cause and effect, but it must be because we cannot conceive of something happening uncaused. Therefore, God exists as the uncaused first cause.

cons

You cannot infer from the fact that the world was created that God was the creator. The conception of God contains many extra attributes that aren’t necessary of a world creator. Second, just because the world is beautiful and varied doesn’t mean it was consciously designed. Why can’t beauty happen by accident?

The difference between a watch and us is that the watch serves a purpose – to tell the time. Therefore, seeing something so perfectly serving a purpose suggests design. What purpose do we serve? We don’t, we just exist. And even if we were designed for a purpose, the earlier argument applies: a purposeful designer isn’t necessarily a God.

The argument from probability does not work. It relies on there being something special about us. What is so special about us? We are rational – so what? The poker analogy is only remarkable from within the context of the rules of the game. What are the rules of our game?

This ontological argument can be rebutted by rejecting the idea that existence is a perfection. Something either exists or it doesn’t. It mightn’t be as useful to you if it doesn’t exist but that is hardly the same thing. And more importantly, the argument is a disguised conditional; you say ‘if God exists then he must be perfect, and if he must be perfect he must therefore exist.’ But all this rests on the initial ‘if God exists.’ If God doesn’t exist, we don’t have the problem and the argument doesn’t work.

The cosmological argument doesn’t work. For a start, an uncaused first cause still doesn’t necessarily have all the attributes it would need to be called God – e.g. omnipotence, benevolence and omniscience. More importantly, an uncaused first cause is just as incomprehensible to us as an endless chain of cause and effect. You are just shifting the incomprehension one stage back.

Easy explanation. Let's say you don't beleive in god. You spend your life not beleiving in god, thinking everyone is wrong but you. Let's say you do believe in god. You spend you life believing in god and ppl that dont believe in him are wrong. The person that doesn't believe in God dies, adn there was a god, he goes to hell or purgatory...whatever. Let's say God didn't exist, he was right...way to go...your still dead. The man that Did believe in God dies. There was a God and he goes to heaven, yay. Lets say God didn't exist, he is in the same position as the guy who didn't believe in god...darn you were wrong...your still dead and dont give a shit.

My point is, what does it hurt to believe in God, might as well look forward to dying and thinking it is a new life rather than thinking its all you have right now.