Need some advice...
 

Hi guys,

my situation is the following: There's this guy I know, we used to be pretty good friends until he started pissing off everbody he knows. He is a total japan freak. He worships japan. Says the religion is better, society is better and generally japan is the next best thing to heaven. Funny really, because about two and a half years back he was a total nazi.

He is planning to go to japan next year for 6 months to "work" there. Now he has had japanese lessons for about a year but can still not read japanese, let alone speak more than a couple of phrases.

His father died about two years ago in an accident, and since he is short of money, he's planning to use his inheritance for the trip. We've tried to tell him japan is one of the most expensive countries in the world, and that he will not find work there, but he basically told us we knew nothing about japan, everythings cool over there, bla bla bla.....

He's not too good in school either. He has already redone a year and if he fails another he's got serious problems. He barely scraped through last year and this year is the final year of the South African school system. Sadly, if he doesn't pull his act together he's going to fail. We've tried to tell him to concentrate on his schoolwork and to get a decent qualification. I don't think he realizes that if he doesn't make this year he's going nowhere.

It's obvious he's running into a knife, and although he has pissed me off so severely that I haven't spoken a word to him in the holidays, I still think of it as my duty as a friend to try to convince him not to go. So here's my question:

How can I convince him that going to japan will ultimately ruin his life?

It will, because he will use up what little money he has within a month, if not sooner. I can guarantee that he wouldn't last 6 months, heck, he wouldn't last 6 weeks.

Any advice is welcome. Thanks.

Lord Wiener

Re: Need some advice...
 

Sit down and talk to him. Let him tell you all the wonderful reasons he has to go, and when he is done, you tell him all what you have told us. It is also important that you make him realise that he cannot speak Japaneese. If you have to,get a note or something from his teacher supporting you. It might help a little. Even though it is said that you learn a language best by living in the country, it doesn't help if you cannot speak the the language just a little bit in the first place. If he cannot even read the language, he cannot learn it.

Re: Need some advice...
 

Honeslty i dont think someone in that situation can really be helped with talking and soft action. The problem is that he need to snap out of it. It seem obvious to me that after the death of his father he enclosed himself in something and it probably was anime. Since it was what helped him to get throught some tuff time he probably think that whoever made that has all the solution which would probably explain his him almost turning in a fantatic about japanese stuff. I really think what he need is a well placed kick in the ass so he can understand that he is fucking up his life. Of course the *kick* is more of a figure of speech then an actual action. He need to understand that no matter where he go, what he do or what he think. Life will never be easy and it will always hurt. I dunno how it would work in that situation as i dont know your friend or anything about you for that matter. But i had a few friend i stoped from doing stupid shit from suicide to more simplistic stuff. What im gonna say might sound very weird but it always seem to work! The key is in almost every situation is to *destroy the person* What i mean by that is to for them to become very unstabble emotionaly. In most case they will end up in tears. When you reach that point that the person is in tear you take a softer and try to find what is wrong. If he is a friend he will tell you what's wrong even if they before they didnt want to say it, they didnt even think about the problem before or sometime the ppl wont even really know they had a problem untill they spill it out without even really knowing it. After you know the problem you will be able to help him moving on with whatever the problem is.

Remember, this might have worked at about a 95% rate of success when i used that technique but i dont know much about what is going on. Maybe there is something better to do. But if what i said is helping well good :)

The human brain is a very strange machine... It work in stupid and facinating ways ;)

Re: Need some advice...
 

Unfortunately my friend is the sort of person who hears only what he wants to hear. But to break him would ultimately and utterly destroy him. He'd be off worse than he is right now. Believe you me, I know many ways how I could break him, and they aren't nice...

I can't break him, at least not now. He's got to get through this year. As I said it is extremely crucial that he makes it and if I broke him, he wouldn't make it. Definitely.

And thats exactly what I'm trying to do. And as much as I'd hate doing this, I'd need to use my "position of power". You see, back when his father died, he could invite two friends to the funeral. One of them was me, surprisingly as I didn't know him that well back then. But I was one of the two who helped him through that experience.
My leverage shows whenever I really get angry with him. Now, one thing about me and my friends is that we diss each other constantly just for fun. But sometimes this friend takes it to the point of being annoying. But when I become really pissed off he immediately backs away and apologizes.
As I said, I'd hate using that leverage.

Problem: he is already emotionally unstable. He doesn't really have an own opinion and throws himself to others' feet to "be in the trend". For instance, there was a phase where I listened to Rammstein a lot. What does he do? He buys hinself three Rammstein cds. Then came a Metallica phase. What does he do? Goes and buys the Metallica S&M DVD, which was quite expensive. And with his japan craze he's got one girl who likes animé and japan, but isn't half as crazy as him.

In conclusion: Kuja, it is a very interesting approach, but for the moment it is too radical. Thanks though, and I will try it as a last approach, but for now I think I'll stick to Dreadnought's method of a long talk.

Cheers

Re: Need some advice...
 

Hum, the way i see it he aint emotionaly unstable and thats what you need. Right now he seem to be more mentally unstable. For him hearing only what he want it is something normal you cannot just talk to him about something and expect him to listen. I know most ppl wouldnt as it seem in most case ppl feel that kind of help as pity and they hate it so they dont care. If you use what i said dont try to reason with him just break him. It migth be raw and seem bad but sometime it's the best way. Just like a sand castle. Sometime when a sand castle is broken it is much easier to destroy it and rebuilt it completly instead of trying to fix it and ending up doing nothing else then causing more damage.

Re: Need some advice...
 

While I do not share a fasination with Japan (dont get started with 'raciest junk' ,my grandfather fought them in the Pacific Theater in 1944), I think you need to talk with him, and ask why he wants to go, the real reasons. Then, tell him why you dont think he should go, but tell him those reasons are because you are looking out for him. Ultimatly, its his choice, you can only do so much, but do what you can...

Re: Need some advice...
 

Meh. I know how you feel, on a smaller level. I'm always telling people what will happen if they do a certain thing. They never listen. And anyone who's thinking logically can see it. But they're always shocked when I'm right. Unfortunately, no amount of trying to persuade them seems to work. It's as if they brainwash themselves into believing something, only to realise their mistake after it happens.
I personally would just leave him to it. He's annoying people. He's not listening to reason. Chances are, if you try and 'break' him like someone here suggested, you'd do nothing more than drive him away by making him feel like everyone's against him. It's a harsh but true fact that short of being tied up, people will not stop making their mistake till it becomes a mistake, if they're not thinking logically. Besides, you never know, if he does manage to get a job, he might make it work.
If the chances are that he won't, it's not the end of the world. There are ways of redoing school. Sounds to me like he would need to anyway. Might knock him back on track, not having a far-fetched daydream to distract him.

As you won't do this, here's another idea. Get some evidence. Don't just tell him all the reasons he shouldn't go. Show him. Get some facts and figures, testimonials from other people who've been there, housing and living costs, anything you can to prove your point. Become a lawyer for a day - prosecute Japan as hard as you can.
He'll have to arrange a place to live and stuff before he gets there, unless he's really lost it and has just planned to turn up with all his possessions in a rag on a stick. Chances are, the price of that alone will kick him up the rear and make him reconsider.

Re: Need some advice...
 

Breaking someone doesnt mean making them think everyone is against them. Trying to break someone by using hate would only make the person close himself/herself even more. Why some ppl think breaking someone has anything to do with hate ?

The way i see it letting him go would be a bad idea as he suck in jap and he is willing to spend basicly most of his money going there. So he would end up stuck there or something. Facts wont get to someone like this as they beleive what they are doing will solve everything. They beleive that when they will get there everything will work on it's own without need of effort.

Re: Need some advice...
 

...and when he is stuck there, his good friend Wiener will help him get back. Won't you, Wiener?

Your idea of 'breaking them' is apparently to 'destroy them', and make them 'emotionally unstable'. As he is seemingly without logic anyway, and searching for an easier, more enjoyable, way of living, making him emotionally unstable will guarentee him leaving.

Re: Need some advice...
 

Maybe you should let him go and once he relizes (sp?) his mistake, pay for plane tickets or something or drive out to Japan to pick him up (if you can from where you live) to bring him back home where he belongs.

Note: DON'T TRY THIS IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR A PLANE TICKET OR FOR SOME FORM OF TRANSPORTATION OR IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CAR TO GO AND PICK HIM UP YOURSELF!!!

BTW, I very much understand if you hate my idea. It was just a suggestion. Good luck with your friend.

Re: Need some advice...
 

To break someone emotionaly is to make them unstable so he end up letting it out. Someone emotional unstable will not make big descision like moving! Once he let it out he will already have been help and only a little will be left to do. Making him unstable will deff. not make him leave. I seen many and the one that make moves are the one that are in a state of mental imbalance. While the eomotionaly imbalanced one will be more toward staying where the problem is and considering it is most likely because of his father that died or something near where he live. He wont leave if he become emotionaly imbalanced. The other idea i see so far are a little weird(no offence). But it's kinda like trying to repair a falling castle. It's better to finish destroy it and rebuild one with a stronger base.

Re: Need some advice...
 

I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. Someone emotionally unstable is very prone to acting without thinking... i.e. rational thought clouded? If I were the one considering to go and live in Japan, I'd be weighing the pros and the cons. If all my friends suddenly started to try and 'destroy me', even if they didn't succeed I'd bloody distance myself from them quick enough. Trying to repair a falling castle is much better than destroying it if you're standing in it at the time.

Re: Need some advice...
 

Someone that is emotionally unstable will have unrational thought and will be confused in their head. Unlike a mentaly unstable person that will be clouded in their judgement but they wont feel any confusion and will be willing to act on a much higher level. The way your using destroy is like if your trying to bash the shit of someone. What im saying is trying to make the person emotionaly imbalanced that way the mental barrier that they set up on themself to not see or that make them prevent themself from talking about it will collapse quite easily. I have the feeling you have no clue what im talking about with the castle. The castle is the representation of the person. Not of his house or anything. And even in the way your looking at the castle. A falling castle would be much more harder to repair as it would be falling apart and only causing more trouble each time you try to repair an area.

It's just like anything else.
Love and Hate.
Pain and Happiness.
Destroyed and Built.

They all look very diff. but they are much closer then many could ever think.
One lead to the other and it work both way!

Re: Need some advice...
 

If there were absolutely no other way, I guess I would...
He'd owe me BIG time for that though....

And Kuja, if I were to try to break his aspirations of going to japan, I'd have to use hate. Make him aware of the obvious things that are right in front of him. As matt said, doing that would drive him away.
As I said, I'd only do that as a last resort. I hate being mean.

:lol: Actually, I might just do that.

I just haven't got the cash to do that. and frankly, neither does my friend, what I mean is that he can't really afford to spend that much money.

He can't really afford to redo another year of school, he's getting too old for that. He's turning 20 this year. There's a certain limit as to how long you can stay in school. Plus, I'm not sure he'd make it without us there to support him. Most of us are doing the German Abitur, the German final certificate and university entrance, so we're still here this year, but definitely not next year. Plus, sometime next year I'm moving out of SA to go to university in Europe(Was thinking of Maastricht in Holland).

I think I'll ask him just how he plans to get a japanese work permit with mediocre qualifications and a shortage of work spaces in japan.

Thanks for all your advice though guys
Cheers,
Lord Wiener :type:

Re: Need some advice...
 

Meh, i think you dont get what im saying. You dont need to break his need to go to japan. Just make him unstable emotionaly. That way when he let it out it will help him a lot and the problem will probably fix itself or he will need a minor help but the main problem will be fixed which will most likely make him rethink everything he wanted to do as he will know his idea wrnt based on sane thinking. It's not about being mean it's about being hard. :dance:

Re: Need some advice...
 

you and your friends could "get" into sudan or something....maybe he'd try to be in on the new sudanese trend and "get" into sudan...it'd be cheaper than japan...;)

Re: Need some advice...
 

I have every clue. You don't understand what I was saying.

Anyway. Apart from being impossibly foolish, your 'idea', if it could be called that, is overkill. To use your metaphor... the castle needs a little polyfiller in a crack in the cement. Your solution... blow it to pieces and rebuild it. When all it needs is some crack-filling...
You seem to have some sort of preoccupation with the emotionally and mentally unbalanced and unstable. Why?

Re: Need some advice...
 

well id say sit down with him (next to your computer) and find out the ups and downs of japan and if nothing else (that the others put in) than let him make a mistake and be there for him when he gets back

Re: Need some advice...
 

I saved friends from commiting suicide i helped them threw, i helped a friend threw a rape and many more. These solution are much better then you could even imagine. When someone has a dieing cat and it's only a matter of time before it's gone. Most time they have 2 option. Kill it and get a new one or let fix it with medication for temporary survival but the cat will still die and continue to suffer while medicated. What im proposing is a way for the guy to get a new start which is a very rare oporunity to someone. You clearly have no idea what im talking about or the effect of any solution. Telling someone that has it's bad objective already set in a normal manner will achieve NOTHING. The person will just fake any interest in whatever the person say as it would be against what he want. You cannot just say

Helper: "oh, but it's a bad idea. Reason... Blahblah...Explanation...BlahBlah"
Helped: "yeah, i know but il still do it. It's gonna work dont worry!"
Helper: " Nope it wont really cause of blahblahblah."
Helped: "Whatever*Ignore*"
Helper: "Blahblahblah"
Helped: "*Ignore*"
Helper: "blahblahblah"
Helped: "Stfu about it already will you ?"
The one helping will never get to anything with that kind of soft talk your proposing. To get someone attention in these situation you need to be hard and do like i said. You clearly never helped ppl in that kind of situation.

Re: Need some advice...
 

The problem with your advice is that I might not be there when he gets back. I'm doing the German Abitur this year. He's doing the South African Matric. Next year I might be doing the Microsoft technician's degree. He wants to go to japan. And when I'm done with that, I'm moving on to university in Europe.
Whether he's back or not.

I'm getting further ahead in my life while he seems to think he has all the time in the world, but he doesn't. As I said, he's turning 20 this year. Plus, he isn't doing the Abitur because of his japan tick. But the thing is that we reckon he's not smart enough to do Abitur in the first place. That's not being mean, that's being realistic. He barely scraped through last year, and if he doesn't take his head out of his arse, he'll fail the Matric this year.

Re: Need some advice...
 

I know this sounds harsh or inconsiderate, and believe me if it does, I apologize. Truely in this case, although I'm not in your shoes, I would let him go. One thing that just stood out was that his dad died. If he was close with his fater or played a big influence on him, he hurts. Doesn't even matter if you can read the signs. It sounds like he feels in his life, his world, he has to do it. And you know what, he probably will fail, and thats ok. It will just mean that in his life, he will most likely take harder knocks than others for him to see things in a more rational way.

Please understand that I know you have and are doing your best to talk sense to him, but remember thats what a friend does, but there a point when you allow them to see what you foresaw.

I really do hope it works out, which it will!
Take care!

Re: Need some advice...
 

Oh, ok. Wel I can't think of anything else to say other then, good luck.

Re: Need some advice...
 

I'm curious about many things.

How, exactly do you brake them? You keep saying you should take the hard approach, but, how? Shout at them? Injure them? Insult them? If you'd helped people in suicide situations, you'd know that isn't the thing to do. It only demoralises them. My aunt was depressed to the point of suicide. Don't make assumptions like that again. One reason why she was like that? She didn't feel appreciated. Taking the hard approached could possibly have killed her.

Secondly... would you be so frivilous with the life of a human? Humans die too. Are you suggesting we end medical treatment, as it's a waste of time saving anyone? Maybe no-one should have kids anymore. They die anyway. Cats, too, why buy the cat in the first place?

Re: Need some advice...
 

So what's the latest on this LW? Have you been able to make any progress? Are you still tring to sway him, or did you throw the towel in?

Cya!

Re: Need some advice...
 

Haven't seen him yet. And as I said he's really annoying.
I'm seeing him on tuesday, when school starts.

And now that idiot wants to go to canada to visit a friend after he's been to japan.........
I just don't believe what I hear anymore...

Plus, what really pisses me off is that he talks a lot of shit about me behind my back over msn messenger to another friend of mine. Now this guy tells me everything that guy says about me. And some of it is infuriating.....for instance, all I know about computers and hardware I learned from my older brother. I'm not a genius, but if something's wrong with a pc, in 90% of all cases I can fix it. Now when I went over to germany last year I brought back a whole lot of upgrades. Now I asked this guy if he wanted to come over and help me build it. Last week I repaired the pc of another friend of mine. Now on chat the guy asked my friend if I had done most the work. My friend said yes. The guy then says that he can't believe it, after all I was dumb considering hardware, blablabla, but that I had gotten smarter through HIS help with my pc....
Now get this straight: He isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. And he's calling ME dumb. He redid a year of school. That is an insult. SO....ANGRY...RIGHT...NOW

*deeep breath*

I am going to have one last talk with him about the matter, and if he ignores me, then I'm basically gonna say "right mate, fuck off, you've been warned."

Re: Need some advice...
 

You need to let him go his own way....even if YOU feel he may fail, you cannot be 100% sure, and even if he does, it will be a lesson that he will need to learn on his own, because from what I hear you saying, he isnt going to listen to you anyways, you may however be able to convince him to take more time in thinking about his decision, perhaps getting him to insure he has a plan to fall back on if he does in fact fail as you think he will, but if you truely wish to show him you are a friend, then support him in whatever decision he makes, even if you disagree with it. Good luck to you; and your friend.

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I hate it when people get so annoying and bad when you might just have to say enough is enough and pray...errrr....hope that it gets better.

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Ah again as i see that almost everyday... Words that are used yet the person that use them have no clue what they mean... Being hard doesnt mean doesnt mean using violence, to causing pain, to demorale someone or to insult. It mean to just be hard with the person and not stop even tho the person might react in a way where you think you should stop. The point in breaking someone is to play directly in their emotion and break them so they can let it out. They will then rebuild their emotions or *regenerate* them if you prefer. They will be more stable and will not have the lack of judgement when making descision. Doing what i said to your aunt would of helped. As it was her emotion that were making her think she wasnt appreciated. So by destroying the base of those unstabble emotion and rebuilding a stronger base she would of been fixed.

Re: Need some advice...
 

I think I get was Kuja is saying... she means sit them down and tell them pretty much exactly what you think, go into your reasons about it, etc. and don't be gentle about it. The fact is most people don't want help whether they obviously need it or not, and you have to break through that barrier so they will let you help them. That's what she means by 'destroying them', you destroy the walls around them. You have to know when to stop though, carrying it too far would be very bad...

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I would sugest he go on a short holiday in japan for a week or so .
So that he can SEE whether he likes it or not and how expensive stuff is whether he would be able to suport himself etc.
As to the idea of breaking someone I would have to disagree.
Its all very well destroying a person .
But when their rebuilding it can go either way.
They might[I] think you were only trying to help them.
Or They might think that they had been betrayed that you had only used your position of trust to cause them pain and to hurt them.
in which case they would find it very hard to trust people again
and dont say you can supervise the rebuilding ,a person has to do this for themselves or the foundation wont hold and in a couple of years it all comes crashing down.