Indian MRCA competition

[MrFancypants]

The Indians should announce any day now who wins the competition for their newest multi role fighter. The selection is down to the Dassault Rafale and the EADS Eurofighter. Other applicants such as the MiG-35, F16, F/A 18 Super Hornet and Saab Gripen have been ruled out.

As the program could extend to about 200 aircraft orders this is one of the most important deal in decades, especially now that defense budgets in many countries are being cut due to economic difficulties. Consequently France and the EU countries involved with the Eurofighter have been lobbying and sweetening the deal.

Strangely though it seems that initially India wanted a light multi-role aircraft to replace their aging MiGs and Jaguars. It seems to me that in this respect the Gripen would have been a good choice. But now they want to buy either the Eurofighter or Rafale, both heavier aircraft which are closer to an air superiority fighter than to a multi-role aircraft in my opinion. Maybe this change in requirements reflects an increasing concern over China's military expenses whereas previously Pakistan was more of a concern. I could also imagine that the fact that the US and France have been selling (or in the case of the US giving away) their aircraft to Pakistan also played a role in the selection process.

Supposedly the Eurofighter is technically superior to the Rafale. However, as the Indians have been flying Mirage 2000s in the past the Rafale's controls and logistics would be easier to integrate into their air force. The decisive factors are probably political deals which don't have much to do with the aircraft.

[Anlushac11]

IMHO India want the majority of whatever aircraft it flies to be useable from land bases and its carriers. The Carriers are STOBAR, F-18 is too big and heavy for STOBAR.

The US has offered the F-35 to India but the F-35C is too heavy for STOBAR as well. India might be interested in F-35B's as a replacement for its aging Sea Harriers.

India has one aircraft carrier operational, the Russian built one was supposed to be delivered in 2012, and India is building a new carrier whose design is based on the British Centaur class ex-HMS Hermes due to retire soon.

The French Navy uses navalized Rafale-M's so there is operational experience there. India has asked about a navalized Typhoon which to my knowledge has been built and tested and shown to India.

The US and Russia in the past have held up shipments of aircraft, parts, and supplies to purchasers to try and force political concessions. India wants to be supplier independent.

India is not real happy with Russia right now with the cost of the INS Vikramaditya having more than doubled over the original agreed price and the project has been delayed even further meaning possibility of more costs involved.

In addition in June 2011 a two seat navalized MiG-28KUB crashed killing both pilots just prior to the aircrafts delivery to India. India has also been plauged with a string of Su-27 crashes recently as well.

India put a freeze on the order questioning the aircrafts safety and credibility. Russia also grounded its own MiG-29K's pending investigation. Russia said the accident was pilot error and in August a deal was announced for further MiG-29K orders.

[ElCommissar]

I'm a bit disappointed that the Super Hornet got rejected, it will be interesting to see the final decision though. This is very important to the French because the Rafale has yet to get an export order and Dassault is determined to make this happen. I believe President Sarkozy spoke of this being a priority.

The Rafale (like the Super Hornet) has the advantage of having a fully operational naval variant if the Indians are interested in something other than the MiG-29Ks. But in terms of capabilities the EF-2000 seems to have something of an edge if it finally gets that AESA radar and other promises features.

MrFancypants, one problem with the Gripen was that it posed something of a threat to the HAL Tejas fighter. The IAF clearly favored the more capable and complex designs too (cost is not the deciding factor), which probably spelled the end for the Gripen NG and F-16IN offerings.

[MrFancypants]

India says it'll take 2 more weeks to come up with a decision:
India Hopes To Unveil Fighter Deal in 2 Weeks | Gannett Government Media | defensenews.com

Apparently they are trying to estimate life-cycle costs before going into negotiations about the contract with the "winner". Which seems to be a nice way of saying "we'll take whichever aircraft is cheaper. Then we'll make some additional demands in the negotiations and constantly threaten to go to the other guys if you don't agree".

[Anlushac11]

F/A-18 Super Hornet is too heavy for STOBAR carrier.

F-35C too heavy for STOBAR, India may or may not be interested in F-35B considering they operate Harriers.

Rafale is a combat experienced operational naval variant.

Typhoon has naval version in development but no experience with it.

IMHO India will go with Rafale and some will be naval version.

I expect to see a announcement later for a few F-35B's since India's Harriers are being overhauled for planned 2020 retirement.

[MrFancypants]

Originally Posted by Anlushac11

IMHO India will go with Rafale and some will be naval version.

Looks like you got that right:
Indian Victory a Breakthrough for France’s Rafale | Gannett Government Media | defensenews.com

The reason given by the Indians was that Dassault offered their fighter for a considerably lower price. EADS won't be too happy about this, the Eurofighter isn't doing that well on the export market (although Saudi Arabia bought a few). The Rafale hasn't be sold to other nations at all though, so the French are probably happy campers now.

BTW, with that prediction you could have made quite a bit of money:
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stock...symbol=AVMD.PA

[Anlushac11]

I consider that part right. India is to build IIRC 126 fighters.

I am expecting enough Rafale-M's to form a carrier wing for one of the new carriers, around 20-25. About 18-20 single seaters and about 4-5 two seaters.