What's Next General?

[Destroyer25]

Originally Posted by MrFancypants

I think in such a situation any light sources would show the silhouettes of the guys on the top of the hill against the night-sky while the guys at the foot of the hill would be relatively well hidden as they blend in with the shadowy terrain.

Besides, even if the defenders saw anyone sneaking up the hill they'd be immediately blinded by the muzzle flashes of their own weapons (which, by the way, would probably only light up the immediate surroundings and not the advancing troops).

Anyway, let's see if we can find the "right" solution for the next scenario.

The Germans would be in foxholes and trenches...But anyway, the next scenario will have 1 solution that will be highly effective, its an East fron scenario, so I know what works because theres plenty of examples of fail tactics.

[Roaming East]

So are they engaging US troops in the open or hiding in Trenches and foxholes?

[Destroyer25]

Ok heres the next Scenario. I think the map is pretty
obvious. (see map 2)The blue lines=rivers, the big blue splatters are flooded areas/marshes(Which are impassible, you can attempt river crossing where there are no roads but it is very lengthy and dangerous operation, so stick to the roads). Black lines=Roads, black circles are towns/cities.

Now the set up. You are Field Marshall (your name), commander of the 1st Panzer Group. Your Panzer group include 2 Panzer Armies, which are made up of 4 Panzer Divisions and 2 Mechanized Infantry Divisions(Infantry on wheels, however these units have far less troops then a non mechanized infantry division.) You also have been given several Infantry Corps, on loan from out of sector armies, also the Powerful 1st SS Army has been ordered to cooperate with you. This army is made up of 4 SS Infantry Divisions, which are pretty well mechanized, they have a large amount of transport, and in addition the 1st SS Army includes the 1st SS Panzer Division, one of the most formidible in the German Armed Forces, however it is understrength do to sustained combat. But despite that it is short on Tanks, its troops are seasoned Veterans, the best tankers of the Reich. Be advised that this battle is fictional, however the time period is Mid 1943. You have Tigers, Panthers, Stugs, and your Panzer IVs all have long barreled, high velocity 75mm guns. Also you have various SPGs, and TDs(Mainly Marders). You also had numerous Panzer IIIs, however most of them are Ausf Ns, and therefor have short barreled, low velocity 75mm gun, these tanks do jhave decent armor though, about 70mm, making them ideal for infantry support.

Your enemy, is the Red Army. Your Soviet enemies have various tanks, Mainly T-34/76s, which are very good but are out gunned by the Tiger. Also the enemy has KV1s and KV2s, which are incredibly slow but have thick armor, also the enrmy posses many obselete BT-7s, and many SU-76 SPGs. As you can see your enemy does outnumber you, however. (-) This, indicates that they are under strength. In this perticular battle there will be no air, as that makes things far more complex and aircraft isn't where my knoledge is strongest. As for the infantry. The Russian infantry still are nowhere near as well trained or equiped as you are. But American trucks have arrived and the enemy infantry is Semi-Moterized. While all of your forces, with the exception of the 4 infantry corps, are full motorized.

Now for the Mission.

The OKH has ordered you to destroy as many enemy forces in your sector as possible, and you also must capture the main enemy city(The Big one, duhh).

Seeing how the map is so large and you have so many units, I have developed 3 COAs for which you can choose, or you can try and make up your own. The choice is yours.

COA 1, Redeployment. In this COA your 4 infantry corps will withdraw to the Stalin River, as shown on the Map. Your 2 Panzer Armies then withdraw and group up with the 1st SS Army, together your 3 armies attack the Russian 4th Army. This plan does concentrate your strength more but it also leaves your 4 corps to defend your right flank alone. Strong Russian attacks could break through, however the Russian 4th Army will surely crumble against 3 powerful armies. And this could affect the balance of power, seeing how it is the only Russian army that is up to full strength, the loss of this powerful army would seriously affect the Soviet's offensive capabilities. (No map for this COA)

COA 2, 2 Pronged offensive. In this COA the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th corps will hold the the current river line while the 1st corps supported by the 2 Panzer Armies will attack the isolated 13th Infantry Division, this unit is a veteran unit, and is well equiped with transport, anti-tank guns and artillery but it is standing alone. You will smash this tiny division, then the 11st Panzer Army, will attack North-West and assault the Russian 4th Army in the rear, which will already be engaged with the 1st SS. Meanwhile the 1st Panzer army and the 1st Infantry Corps will move North-East, and attack the Russian 1st Army, these 2 units will then fortify their positions, preventing the Russian units to the south from escaping northwards. This plan could work, since like the first COA it consentrates your fighting power against the 4th and 1st Armies. However, again, like the first COA, it leaves your right lightly defended. And strong Russian attacks could cut off your supply line, and completely encircle your 2 Panzer Armies. A loss like that would end the war immediatly. (See map 3 please)

And finally COA 3, 3 Pronged offensive. In this COA you will a launch a massive offensive all along your front. The 1st SS will crush the 4th Army, and then link up with the 1st Inantry Corps to destroy the Russian 17th Tank corps. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, Corps, and the 1st and 11th Panzer Armies will cross the river and smash the Russian armies, they will move incredibly fast and incircle the Russians before they can even get moving. The Russians are not guarding the river line, so chances are they will be incircled before they even know that you are attacking. This is a bold plan, however it does mean that if your attacks get bogged down, all of your other units will be unavailable to help. (See map 4 please)

It is 20:00 hours and Alfred Jodl, the OKW Chief of Operations has ordered that you launch your offensive at 0700 hours. Your are at your Army Group HQ with your subordinate commanders, and the commander of the 1st SS Army asks,
"Whats Next General?"

[Roaming East]

Assuming we can take the city what are the conditions to avoid encirclement and obliteration in situ? Lacking Air support are we permitted to NOT stay in place within the city so as not to become an encircled force and suffer enemy artillery attack?
what are the soviet dispositions? Have they just arrived at the battle area or were they already there with the possibility of the few attack routes into the battle area having been either mined or pre sited with AT weaponry? lotta unknowns in this one.

[Destroyer25]

Neither side has planes, calculating the effect of them is very difficult. And like I said these units have been fighting for a while, theres bee heavy fighting here for several weeks. But both sideshave brought up renforcements. Intellegence is a bit fuzzy, aerial recon have been hard do to bad weather, but we do know that the main Russian force is not entrenched in prepared positions along the river. If there were serious field works it would be indicated on the map. Mindfields are a possibility, but I wont suprise you with anything extreem likes a solid wall of tank barricades or mine fields. You might encounter dug in anti-t guns, anti-t ditches, some mine fields, but it wont be anything as extensive as Kursk. But this is why the order to attack is was given, so that the Russians dont have any time to dig in further. 1 single day could make all the difference. Hope it helps, good luck. I'll be on all night if you have questions. You can also pm me.

[MrFancypants]

I'd try to cut off and destroy their northwestern infantry unit using one tank division and the SS-guys that are already there, that is probably easy to accomplish. The rest (minus tanks) briefly engages the enemy and then retreats to the river, with the other tank division covering the retreat and then defending the bridges. If all goes well the Soviets will extend into the center of the map, at that point every mobile unit that is not needed to hold the bridges would attack in the north, going east and then south.
The idea is to make the enemy believe that the armored units are all busy in the northwest and bait them into a counterattack in the center. Once they commit to that they will be cut off and attacked in the rear with only the south left as option for a retreat. This should cause a lot of confusion but avoid cornering them into a last-stand kind of fight.

[Destroyer25]

Originally Posted by MrFancypants

I'd try to cut off and destroy their northwestern infantry unit using one tank division and the SS-guys that are already there, that is probably easy to accomplish. The rest (minus tanks) briefly engages the enemy and then retreats to the river, with the other tank division covering the retreat and then defending the bridges. If all goes well the Soviets will extend into the center of the map, at that point every mobile unit that is not needed to hold the bridges would attack in the north, going east and then south.
The idea is to make the enemy believe that the armored units are all busy in the northwest and bait them into a counterattack in the center. Once they commit to that they will be cut off and attacked in the rear with only the south left as option for a retreat. This should cause a lot of confusion but avoid cornering them into a last-stand kind of fight.

All the units are labelled by number, I refuse to even read your post if you dont make it dead clear what your doing. There is nothing called SS-guys, so please be specific.

[Huffardo]

Thanks for the support everyone, I was starting to feel lonely against the n00b here.

I'm going to boycott this new scenario since I can't stand computer-illiterate people who keep uploading their pictures as bitmaps even after I've told them not to.

[MrFancypants]

Originally Posted by Destroyer25

All the units are labelled by number, I refuse to even read your post if you dont make it dead clear what your doing. There is nothing called SS-guys, so please be specific.

I think it should be pretty clear without giving each unit names like 3. SS Panzergrenadiersturmhastdunichtgesehendivision "Leibstandarte Willy Müller". Each of those units probably has a capable officer, so they can use the appropriate terminology and work out the details while I enjoy the life of a field marshal, exploiting the riches of the occupied territory.

[Destroyer25]

Originally Posted by Huffardo

Thanks for the support everyone, I was starting to feel lonely against the n00b here.

I'm going to boycott this new scenario since I can't stand computer-illiterate people who keep uploading their pictures as bitmaps even after I've told them not to.

Sorry I'm not a nerd, I've never uploaded a map to a forum, forgive me please, for having a life. Maybe I'll just pack up and leave, they are much better at this sort of thing at Supremacy anyway and they are nicer too.

Originally Posted by MrFancypants

I think it should be pretty clear without giving each unit names like 3. SS Panzergrenadiersturmhastdunichtgesehendivision "Leibstandarte Willy Müller". Each of those units probably has a capable officer, so they can use the appropriate terminology and work out the details while I enjoy the life of a field marshal, exploiting the riches of the occupied territory.

You'll refer to the units as German/Russian # Division/Corps/Army. It just makes things easier for me to understand.