The Neverending Caliber Debate

[Crazy Wolf]

Originally Posted by Teqila

Let's keep this on topic, 9mm or .45.

Why? There are other options available, and we might as well have a discussion that is interesting, and not just a repeat of
"OMG MP5 is teh cool! 9mm FTW!"

"STFU n00b! I use teh USP in COunterstrike, the .45 ACP is soo much better!"

[Delta Force]

The .45 is best. Why else would spec ops still depend on ancient M1911s when going in close quarters? 9mm doesn't cut it. Go with the true American classic, the .45!

It has superior stopping power and doesn't overpenetrate. Great enough for civillan and police use. For military use it depends. 9mm is good if you are going up against someone with body armor (Read: Never for America) but .45 is good if you are in close quarters or anything like that (As in Iraq).

According to my dad (Works in military) they are actually sending over some of the older weapons to the guys in Iraq to give them more stopping power, and because they work better. Every photo you see of our boys in Iraq has at least one troop with an AK-47. I think the AKs even outnumber the M-16s over there.

Bigger is better. .45 for pistol and .30 for rifle (Although the British had a sweet setup with their .303). I like the old school rounds with lots of power.

Although I have only shot .22s, so I am just going off of assumptions, data from the internet, and war movies.

[Teqila]

Originally Posted by Crazy Wolf

Why? There are other options available, and we might as well have a discussion that is interesting, and not just a repeat of
"OMG MP5 is teh cool! 9mm FTW!"

"STFU n00b! I use teh USP in COunterstrike, the .45 ACP is soo much better!"

I'll include .40 S&W. Keep it to handgun rounds.

[VOP2288]

For military purposes I would def go with the more high powered and more lethal caliber - the .45. Like someone said before - if I'm in a warzone I want something that'll keep the bastard down for good.

Although, for home defense that's a whole 'nother ball park. 9mm and the other small, less lethal rounds would be better. I dont understand why people have such weapons as a Bushmaster XM-15 (which is basically a civilian buyable M-16) to protect themselves!? There have been quite a few cases where someone in the process of protecting their families with high powered weapons has actually injured or killed family members via the high caliber bullet penetrating a trespasser and passing through them, into the wall behind them, and striking someone else. Same goes for law enforcement...unless really needed they wont use high powered weapons in confined, possibly civilian inhabited areas due to bullet penetration.

Every photo you see of our boys in Iraq has at least one troop with an AK-47. I think the AKs even outnumber the M-16s over there.

Keep in mind that besides America, Britian, and the western European nations most of the armies of the world depend on AKs or something either developed off it or a newer model of that rifle. It's the most popular, most produced modern weapon of all time.

[Teqila]

There is nothing wrong with the common man owning an evil looking rifle. I wouldn't call an AR-15 high powered, it is less powerful than the bolt action rifles used by miltaries a century ago or most of the hunting rifles today. 9mm isn't a less lethal round, it's been killing people for a long time. That statement reminds of when Israeli police once used .22's for riot control until the number of accidental deaths added up.

[VOP2288]

There is nothing wrong with the common man owning an evil looking rifle. I wouldn't call an AR-15 high powered, it is less powerful than the bolt action rifles used by miltaries a century ago or most of the hunting rifles today. 9mm isn't a less lethal round, it's been killing people for a long time. That statement reminds of when Israeli police once used .22's for riot control until the number of accidental deaths added up.

Ok - but in reality ANY bullet can kill someone...if I put a .22 rifle to your head and pulled the tigger you'd probably die or bleed alot (personally I've never seen someone shot point blank with a .22 bullet but I would think that it would kill you no matter what). Either way - my point is you drastically reduce the chance of hitting say your 5 year old daughter if someone ever breaks into your house and your hand is forced to use the weapon. With more powerful calibers the penetration increases and the chance that a the bullet will go through multiple walls, objects, etc within the house increases.

I wouldnt mind having a sweet looking high powered semi automatic rifle either...it'd be awesome to have and fun to shoot but I'm talking about on a more practical level here. For safety and protection purposes. If anything for home protection a small revolver and a 12 gauge will do...shotguns would be better seeing as how the pellets spray out and away...also reducing the chance of penetrating several walls and causing collateral damage.

[Roaming East]

9mm tend to over penetrate as far as pistols go. .45 is basically the worlds best defensive pistol round period. Its large enough to make an appreciable bleed hole (or mechanical damage one) and slow enough to stop IN the body and transfer all its energy. Uberspitzen 9mm have abilities like this too but the cost factor jumps up. Buy a box of .45 SXT's for 20 bucks and leave inch wide holes or buy a box of 9mm Talons for 40 bucks and leave half inch ones?

[Teqila]

Overpenetration isn't the big problem people make it out to be. A 9mm hollowpoint will stop in your target, as will the .45. Both can go through multiple layers of drywall.

[Anlushac11]

Some website I went to had a sand trap made with drywall panels to measure penetration and the .45ACP and the 9mm round used ha almost equal penetration.

But I do think the .45ACP has more shock damage.

Shooting someone with a .22cal is only lethal if you can cause enough traumatic hydroshock damage.

[WiseBobo]

That was probably The Box O'Truth.