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MULTYPLAYER OR NOT MULTYPLAYER There is a continuous topic in this forum: “should or should not there be a multiplayer patch for Max?”. I like to share my view with the rest of you (and, hopefully, end the repetitious discussion). Here are some facts.
The list states (in my opinion) 5 simple things:[list=1][*] If Max Payne doesn’t do a multiplayer add-on it will be quickly forgotten (6 months). Maybe not for everyone ( I still like to play “Day Of the Tentacle” ), but for a lot of people. can you name a game that was published around the same time as Half-Life? Quake3? Unreal? [*] Max Payne Multiplayer add-on doesn’t have to have bullet time (spite that it’s the highlight of the game), It doesn’t even have to have Max, nor be in Third person.[*] There is a risk for the developers in doing a MP mod, and having no one playing it.[*] If Remedy doesn’t do the Multyplayer mod, It may loose points on what the general public thinks of the capabilities of the MAX-FX engine.[*] It seams as if it is really important to Remedy to have a large community doing work for them (like the quake and HL communities). The MOD making community likes to do multiplayers, not single players.[/list=a] In short, I think that Remedy should, add a MP mod (or, at least enable Multiplayer support for mod makers). This MP mod should no be just a couple of Maxes running around shooting each other, but a well thought mod. Maybe they can hire someone to do it for them. This is not because it would be cool or not, or because I would play it or not, It’s just that it seems (to me) the best business decision. NOTE:I’m not trying to convince anyone to do or not do the multiplayer thingy. I’m just trying to get a more elaborated perspective on what seems to be a hot topic filled with childish discussions (“I’m right”-”No, I’m right”-”No, I’m right, and you suck”-“No, you suck”). |
Reading another post I realized something. Heavy Metal Fakk2 is very similar to MaxPayne: Its SP only, short and action based, and (here is the important part) said to be the “easiest game to edit”. It has a lot of map making tools (being based on Quake3 and all), with a lot of tutorials and a lot of people that know how to do things for those kind of engines. Yet, I haven’t seen ONE single user made map for FAKK2 (don’t believe me, look at http://www.fakkyou.com/files/ under user levels). The most I’ve seen is some new (and bad) naked skins for Julie. FAKK2 is six or seven months old. |
hhhhmmmm how would mutiplayer work with the bullet time mode and shotdodgemode,,, would everyone else have to slowdown when someone used it???????dont you think it would have to be disabled in multiplayer hhhmmmm ... this kinda takes away from the NOVELTY that is Max PAyne dont ya think |
Here is my take on it I think yes it should have a MP mod But it should be a totaly diffrent game. For example Half life Counterstrike See what i mean? .. If you pretty much take counterstrike .. and remake it using this game engine .. i think it would do very well. i know alot of people who either play or played games like that. Of course you cant have bullet time in MP .. which is fine .. i dont think i would wan tto have bullet time in a MP game .. it would be a bit hmm cheezy http://www.veforums.com/smile.gif A counterstrike mod .. mmm drool .. heeh |
Hello everyone, just a thought. In theory its possible to make multiplayer mod or (add multi) with bullettime. If you think logic, infact i believe it would work kinda good. But it might require awesome internet connection cause the server and your client (The game) would need to (know) all projectiles in the air, and mark those you shoot with bullet-time as (Bulletime) before it sends them to the other clients and more about the ping and speed of those and compared to (Usall) projectiles, they dont go slower, but you go faster so you see everything like (superman) thats what makes you able to "dodge" them before they hit you. So in theory it would be possible todo bullet-time. Remedy call me if you want my thoughts ;-) |
I will explain this again.... there is one major reason there is no MP other than the fact network code does not exist (and even that statement I dont find to be entirely true)... you would run into very serious synching problems. In Max Payne...the actual bullet projectile..."travels". You shoot, and it goes from point A to point B with a travel distance and velocity in between...(this also depends on the weapon you are using)....you can reproduce this by going into "bullet time" and firing the shotgun...you will actually see the projectiles "move" or "travel"... In games like Half-Life...there is NO travel time...when you click your mouse button...in theory once the gun is fired, it already knows it is going to go to point B. Its instant hit.... |
I will explain this again.... there is one major reason there is no MP other than the fact network code does not exist (and even that statement I dont find to be entirely true)... you would run into very serious synching problems. In Max Payne...the actual bullet projectile..."travels". You shoot, and it goes from point A to point B with a travel distance and velocity in between...(this also depends on the weapon you are using)....you can reproduce this by going into "bullet time" and firing the shotgun...you will actually see the projectiles "move" or "travel"... In games like Half-Life...there is NO travel time...when you click your mouse button...in theory once the gun is fired, it already knows it is going to go to point B. Its instant hit.... |
My thoughts are this....i want MP for Max payne....lol.....i think it can be done...but not sure...not skilled in making games happen..so here it is .....if 1 person online goes in Bullet time.....then the person or persons in that are should c him in Bullet time and themselves be in bullet time..its like a zone or something...if ur in distance of the person using bullet time u should slow down as they are.......thought 2....1 person goes into bullet time...the others around him/her...c him in bullet time...but themselves are not....giving the bullet timer the advantage...or not..therefore...giving the non bullet timers advantage..by moving quickly....but giving the person in bullet time..to react to their actions..c what im saying.....i think either or can be done...but for multiplayer ur going to need a great connection and hardware to play it online. |
Hmm Basically exaclty whats needs to be done is that just like in The Matrix, you see the "guys" move VERY FAST, (When they move) Like they do, dodging bullets meaning they went into bullet-time but you didnt, so basically if Max Payne going to add MP support, you would see the guy moving fast as hell dodging your bullets, would be like LAGG (Jumping around fast) meaning he moves as fast or faster than your bullet does, its that simple. However with the theory about the bullets are instant like in half-life, but here they actually run through the air with a certain speed from point A to B, that would require some advanced netcode but it can certainly be done. That much i know. Now go remedy :] |
i think, there should be bullet-time but only at LAN. |
Am I the only one who thinks that making a single player game is not a sin. Most of my favorite games that I still play are single player and the older single player games which I don't play I have the fondest memories of, I wouldn't trade those for all the multiplayer games in the world. It's true that a good single player game is very difficult to make so many people don't try. In the world of 3d games why spend so much time on a single player game when you can crank out a multiplayer game and be done with it? Perhaps it's the artistic style and expression that you just can't put into a multi-player game. But for whatever reason, God bless those that take the time to make those great single player games. Everyone's got their favorites. Personally, Thief is what really got me back into computer gaming after I hadn't gamed much since Ultima 8. Sure I play multi-player games now and again to blow off steam and at LANs; but it's the single player games that get me enthralled and, if they're well made, I lose myself in their reality. This is probably why guys like Warren Spencer (of Deus Ex) still make single player games, to make something that people can lose themselves and completely become a part of, if only for a moment. That's what playing Max Payne was like for me; for that moment I was Max Payne, burning for vengence, imagining that my blood pumped so much adrenaline that time seemed to slow down, I yearned to see justice (albeit street justice) measured out. Multi-player games just can't do that, they can't really have a narrative beyond this or that team won after a fight, and truly they lack something because of that. If Max Payne were made multiplayer it wouldn't nearly be as good a game as it is now. All games are eventually put on the shelf but some, if they're good, will still be left in the heart. I take my hat off to those who persevere in bringing us the single-player experiences we never forget. [This message has been edited by Preacher747 (edited 07-27-2001).] [This message has been edited by Preacher747 (edited 07-27-2001).] |
Preacher I agree... I dont think the people here understand the ramifications of creating network code. Neat FAKK2 had it, but FAKK2 already had the netcode from Q3...so there wasnt much work. The technology that Remedy used was the engine that was used to BENCHMARK VIDEO CARDS! 3Dmark2000 has no netcode, and you cant just ADD network code like that... For once that would be a HUGE patch (100+mb) and would potentillay cause more issues...I dont think you guys are listening...its not being done because it feasibly cannot. Maybe Max Payne 2 or something..but not this one... |
I couldn't agree with you more, Preacher. For what it's worth, I despise MP. I've never had a positive experience. If a game doesn't have a strong SP component, the developer can forget about getting my money. |
This is my opinion, tell me whether it sounds logical or not. Max Payne needs MP support, if for nothing else then to give the mod community a crutch to get something awesome underway, throw us a bone dammit! Max Payne MP does NOT have to have bullet time and or LIVE REAL TIME DRAWN PROJECTILES. You can leave that out! "Then its not Max Payne, cause thats like what Max Payen Is, wahh wahh" Nope sorry, I believe I and everyone else who has Max would still play it, for the sheer graphics, intensity and jump shooting shoot dodging, etc. imageine jumping at someone and shooting in real time? Sounds cool still right? The Opera mod for HL has it, its fun, imagine that in the Max-FX engine, using Max Payne models and levels, it would be awesome even without Bullet Time and Live Projectiles. Simply stated, make MP support, make it without the stuff that would **** it up, cause its not needed, leave the compicated $hit out and just give us something to play with online! It dosent have to be made today or tommorow but just knowing the guys at Remedy are thinking about it and playing with the idea and would support the mod communities efforts to make MP possible, is enough. Thanks fellas Laterz |
The logistics of Bullet-time WILL NOT work in Multiplayer! If one player goes into bullet-time then the rest of the game should NOT otherwise you are getting slowed down all the time when you don't want to and the game becomes no fun. But even more ridiculous is having bullet-time for each individual on the server. Time ACTUALLY slows down for that person but not anyone else?? How could you do this and not destroy some law of relativity? A person hits bullet time and to him everyone slows down but to everyone else he is moving normally... when everyone else sees him hit the ground they are actually seeing into the FUTURE because the dude hasn't hit the ground yet on his computer!!!!! I think if there ever was an answer to this problem then it would yield the secrets of time travel or stopping time in the real world.. hehe |
Isn't it simple? Max Payne isn't an online game, therefor not required to have MP option in it. You know why the game roxx0rz so much? Because they put time in the game instead of MP problems solutions.. Otherwise it would be just another Quake3:Engine rewrite :P I like it the way it is, and who knows, Max Payne II (multiplayer only). I do miss being able to play with my friends.. but I still have quake and ut and cs and mucho more http://www.veforums.com/smile.gif Having an MP in it, would break the story line which is so strong, and that would be a big shame. I can live without it http://www.veforums.com/smile.gif ------------------ open forum @ http://www.creations.nl/ great topics, great fun, great people. |
You dont seem to understand WTF im saying http://www.veforums.com/wink.gif OK Lets call for the sake of less confusion multiplayer Max-FXMP, that is that it has nothing to do with the Max Payne stoyline and universe etc. It is just that graphical interface, engine or whatever you want to call it that happens to be the same engine used to creat Max Payne. When you spend 3+ years making an engine you want people to lease it and use it for their games right? You want the mod community to have fun and develop cool things, and not limit them to single player, right? Ok Max-FXMP dosent need to have Max Payne gimiky stuff like bullet time and slo-mo it just has to have basic MP capabilities, something, anything that the community and future developers that use their engine can use to create real great things! I too can live with Max Payne being a Single Player game. Im not sure I wanna believe the Max-FX engine cannot support multi-player however. Laterz Fellas [This message has been edited by -FrightM@re- (edited 07-27-2001).] |
I know what your saying -FrightM@re-, how max payne plays in multi player is up to the community, they may release mods based on all of the ideas shared here. However the ability to mod and to MP Mod should be brought in. HL has made fortunes for Valve and have made Valve a name to respect in the gamming community because ppl needing HL to play TFC, CS etc... The more money and respect(power) thats pumped into Remedy the more of these great games like max payne they will be able to produce. Can any1 imagine what TFC 2 and HL 2 will look like now that valve has the money and power. |
lets keep this tread going I wanna see that everyone has to say about it? http://www.veforums.com/smile.gif |
I'll help all of you... welcome to the rebirth of the SINGLE PLAYER GAME. Simple as that. |
their should be no bullet time but still the flips through the air... i think the multiplayer shouldn't be deathmatch but rebels (payne, mobs, crimanals) against cops (swat, police, military) that would be sweet! if they had cool multiplayer maps of course |
If they make mp for max payne(which would be really damn cool) they would obviously be unable to immplement the bullet time feature as some ahve suggested, and here's why. When u go into bullettime, everyone else seems to go slow motion while u are able to still move at normal speed. Some have said that u would look like u were moving ultra fast to the people not in bullet time. That's fine except that for that to work, u would have to be moving at that ultra fast speed, because otherwise, as u went into bullettime, time slows down for u and u would lose sync with the server. So mp would be cool, but it would have to lack bullet time. |
Co-op |
Ive yet to understand why Max simply MUST have multiplayer.it doesnt need it, whats so drastic and evil about playing a single-player mod? You played Max Payne right, you didnt fall on the floor and start foaming at the mouth did you? I dont think Max will die because of the lack of multiplayer; just look at all these fans scrambling to find out how to learn the MaxEd tools. Imagine Neil Manke making They Hunger 4 with the MaxFX engine *drool*. Not to mention the fact that remedy will be making a mod of their own. All in all i dont think max need multiplayer.You want multiplayer? play one of the MMORPGs or Q3 Ut or the various HL mods, then when you want some solid gameplay play a good max payne Sp mod. For those of you that also think max doesnt need multi, rock on we can all be in irc.gamesnet.net 3maxpayne or #maxedit exchanging ideas and planing more SP mods. Also you guys simply act like remedy can goto sleep dream of Max payne with multi and find all the code done for them on thier harddrives. max cannot have multiplayer, deal with it play something else with multiplayer if it kills you that much. |
Max Payne is not a multi player game. Just like Deus ex was not a multi player game. I mean the story is what this game is based on. Deus Ex i for one played it only for the story, only to see how i can effect the story and when i saw 3 endings i said ha forget multiplayer. This is the same, it's a good solid single player game. You enjoy it. put it away for a while and then enjoy it gain and then give it to one of ur friends. If this went on multiplayer i would laugh, i mean if anyone remembers hitman codename 47, almost the same exact thins as this and believe if that game ever went multiplayer it would be ruined. Some games are made for multi player some are not. ------------------ It was the age of war and death that preceded the age of peace and life. |
I love SP games. I think they are the best kind. The only thing I play online is Counterstrike, and not that often. Never the less I think Max Payne should have a MP modality. Why? As I tried to explain in the original message, Remedy is not only trying to make money buy selling copies of Max to the public, but also is trying to get developers to license their MAX-FX technology. I don’t KNOW if the actual MAX engine has multiplayer support, but I’m SURE it does. It would have been peaty foolish for them to develop a professional engine, destined to be licensed, and not giving it MP support. That fact alone may cut them most of their clients, as it would not allow the future games designed with MAX-FX to have MP support. Max Payne is NOT a multiplayer game. Yes. Is a good SP game, and was not designed to be MultiPlayer. Fine. I totally agree. But IF the engine is capable of multiplayer support, and IF the company is trying to get the mod community interested in messing with the game, why not enable the MP support? Doing SP mods is really hard. Trust me, I’ve tried. A mp mod needs only a few changes in code, and you are set for hours. In a SP mod, an hour’s work equals to a few seconds of actual play. And while I agree that SP is what companies should focus on, The unpaid modmakers should be given freedom to do what they want (after all, they are making a product better, without any compensation). If the MP support is not given to the community, The same faith FAKK2 had can be expected for the longevity of max (and, therefore, the MAX-FX), and that’s worse for Remedy than for Ritual, since Ritual is not trying to sell the FAKK2 technology. ------------------ There can be only one (and it will be me). |
On another note, Can’t you people get beyond the “bullet time” controversy? Is an exact replica of the single player interface and game-logic the only conceivable Max Payne Multyplayer to you? ------------------ There can be only one (and it will be me). |
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