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Old March 26th, 2001   #1
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Default Stats on unit effectiveness?

My biggest problem in learning to play Sacrifice was (and is) that there is no data on the effectiveness of the units vs. the different types of targets. The only way to find out is to try and try and try. But there are many contributing factors when playing the game so that the sample data is tainted, in a manner of speaking, which means even more trying is necessary to get an accurate picture ...

I have seen the stats at the Astral Void and they are great - but they are not completely sufficient. The most important aspect is not how much damage is done in a single attack, but rather how much damage is delivered to the target over time in relation to how much health the enemy units can regenerate within a given time frame.

This means not only the attack rate but also accuracy and the likelihood of hitting a moving target under battle conditions. For example, it seems that Sylphs miss a stationary target of 'reasonable' size and distance - a level-one unit at half range - about half the time and Brainacs miss even more often (it's a pity, really, as Brainacs have a pretty good range).

So how many Sylphs would be needed to take out, say, 5 advancing Spitfires before the Spits have fulfilled their purpose of roasting your melee/manahoars/wizard or even the Sylphs themselves? What about shielded Shrikes? How many Brainiacs does it take to kill 10 Troggs in less than thirty minutes?

Another example: do Squalls deliver at least double damage to the enemy (in normal, i.e. less than ideal situations) compared to Sylphs, seeing that they cost double in souls? Until the enemy gets Chain Lightning/Demonic Rift etc. I could build either unit, so I would choose maximum fire power unless the tactical situation favours one type over the other.

Lots of questions ...

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Old March 26th, 2001   #2
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This will answer most.
These are stats made by Messanger, they dont reflect Shiny's own Stats but are useful for comparision.
http://members.home.net/sacstrat/sacunits.htm Creatures
http://members.home.net/sacstrat/tower.htm
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Old March 26th, 2001   #3
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Sweet!! This should help alot for the newbies(ME)!!

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Old March 27th, 2001   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by illuminatus:
http://members.home.net/sacstrat/sacunits.htm Creatures
I have taken the stats from the Astral Void and calculated the theoretical damage per second and per soul to make comparisons easier. For units that do not do constant damage I have put the average or typical values in the first (third) numbers column and the maximum values in the second (fifth). Special abilities or area effects were not considered except for the improved attack of an electrocuted Storm Giant.

Have fun!
Code:
               damage    souls dmg/soul  
              typ   max        typ   max
----------------------------------------
Scythe        139   333    1   139   333
Trogg          86   107    1    86   107
Druid          75    94    1    75    94
Cog           114   129    1   114   129
Frostwolf     100   107    1   100   107
----------------------------------------
Fallen         69          1    69    
Earthfling     50          1    50    
Ranger         60          1    60    
Flame Minion   67          1    67    
Sylph          60          1    60    
----------------------------------------
Locust         71          1    71    
Gargoyle       42          1    42    
Shrike         67          1    67    
Spitfire       50          1    50    
Brainiac       58          1    58    
----------------------------------------
Necryl         12          2     6     
Basilisk        -          2     -  
Scarab          -          2     -     
Tickferno      27          2    14    
Vortick        34          2    17    
----------------------------------------
Blight        132   159    2    66    79
Taurock        30   100    2    15    50
Troll         125   250    2    63   125
Firefist      186   271    2    93   136
Squall         68          2    34    
----------------------------------------
Netherfiend   200   238    2   100   119
Flummox        49          3    16    
Gnome          83          2    42    
Pyromaniac    133          2    67    
Storm Giant   188   238    2    94   119
SG electroc.  288   325    2   144   163
----------------------------------------
Deadeye        58          3    19    
Ikarus        281   313    3    94   104
Gremlin       167   222    3    56    74
Pyrodactyl    219   250    3    73    83
Seraph        83    156    3    28    52
----------------------------------------
Abomination   54           3    18    
Boulderdash   197          4    49    
Mutant        53           3    18    
Bombard       99           4    25    
Flurry        71           4    18    
----------------------------------------
Styx          200          4    50    
Jabberrocky   321   571    4    80   143
Ent           317   317    4    79    79
Warmonger     600   800    4   150   200
Yeti          164   250    4    41    63
----------------------------------------
Hellmouth      71          5    14    
Rhinok         91   545    5    18   109
Dragon        552   724    5   110   145
Phoenix       165          5    33    
Silverback    111          5    22
------------------
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Old March 27th, 2001   #5
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That's very interesting sherlog, thank you

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Old March 27th, 2001   #6
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Yes, this is a value-adding post.
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Old March 27th, 2001   #7
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Cool...dragons, warmongers, electrocuted SGs and scythes excel at dealing damage.


How come the pyromaniac has such a low rating? It deals around 800 dmg if I recall correctly and costs only 2 souls.
I'm probably wrong...

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Old March 27th, 2001   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Borgified Sheep:
How come the pyromaniac has such a low rating? It deals around 800 dmg if I recall correctly and costs only 2 souls.
Yes, but the Pyromaniac takes 7.2 seconds to reload its rocket launcher (imagine such a reload rate in Quake - the game would turn into a thing like Halflife/CS or even worse ). Other units deal less damage per single shot but compensate this by shooting more often.

Remember, the table shows how much damage a unit could inject into the enemy army over time under ideal conditions (i.e. no misses), and the numbers are normalized to one second.

Strictly speaking the numbers approximate the real damage injection only for battles lasting significantly longer than the reload time: during the first 8 seconds the Pyromaniac will have fired 2.0 times and not 8.0/7.2 = 1.111111111... times (the fence post error which is so well-loved among programming folk).

Another thing to keep in mind is that only ranged can come close to, ahem, perfect delivery. Especially the bigger melee will spend a significant time out of touch with the enemy, doing no damage at all (Dragon, Jabberrocky). A plus for the Frostie with its built-in turbo. Among the ranged those with high accuracy or large projectile diameter/effect (Fallen) can deliver better than those with low accuracy and/or small diameter projectiles, i.e. archers.

Anyway, the Pyromaniac is two-soul unit that deals as much damage as the second best one-soul ranged (Shrike, Flame Minion) and only slightly less than Locust and Fallen. That makes it quite powerful already but add to that its deadly accuracy - only beaten by the Deadeye and on par with Squall and Boulderdash - and you see why the PM is the must-have ranged unit in Sacrifice.

Squall vs. Sylph is a tough call because the Squall offsets its low damage with high accuracy, good range and by being a two-soul unit which means that it can survive things like Chain Lightning and Demonic Rift.
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[This message has been edited by Sherlog (edited 03-27-2001).]
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Old March 27th, 2001   #9
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One must also take into account defense, dexterity, AOE Damage, Resistance to certain things, Player attributes, and much more. It's extremely hard to calculate the best combinations, I just say all out Charnel!

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Old March 27th, 2001   #10
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Its is actually best to have 1/4 squalls, 3/4 slyphs. Reasoning for this is that squalls are better at long range, while slyphs hit more in short, and can cloak.

Of course, shiny designed them so they both suck, so if you want a powerful ranged force in your custom you wouldn't want either.
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