Spacecake level design
 

Is it me, or are some of Messiah's levels just too implausible? I appreciate the need to make the maps challenging, but the flow of the game is totally broken when you realise that the bunch of scientists you're trying to reach actually have no way to have got where they are. Or that the cops' locker room is only accessible through and 'scientists only' area.



Compare that to Half Life, Thief or Jedi Knight, where the levels feel 'right'. Heck, even Duke 3d for that matter.



Am I alone thinking that plausibility is important?

I have no idea what you are on about %-(

in some instances he is correct. For example at the begining, there is an officers break room in an area only accessible by a scientist. At other places, there are doors you need a scientist to get through, but there are cops who will shoot at you in a scientist body. there are not a lot, and one could make up stories to explain them away, but it is a little messy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....!


Man, If I can get a dollar every goofball mistake in level design for Messiah, I'd be a millionaire----screw Regis!

Oh, BTW, at Club Kyd--a friend of mine thought it would've been just a lil more challenging if a waitress had to carry drinks to someone to get into BAR 2...

Haaahahhhaaa....Keep it coming fellas!

Half-Life "feels" right? What a load!

Half-Life is one game where I felt completely conned. Had the game flowed as well as the demo I'd be singing it's praises but my impression after only the first few levels in HL was that it was becoming completely abstract and slipping away from the "interactive story" I so dearly hoped it would be. The puzzles were completely contrived in most cases; hardly any effort seemed to have been made to explain the purpose of many obstacles. A scripted scene now and again doesn't cut it.

Messiah's puzzles at least have been designed to have some rationale in the environment. Yes, I'll agree that a lot of areas are closed off in unrealistic ways, but for this game that is a GOOD aspect of level design. Linear progression is enforced by limiting exploration possibilities; in another kind of game that wouldn't be appropriate.

As for nitpickers, I certainly don't see a lot of amateur mappers out there who can manage anything more complex than a capture the flag base (ooh, what a challenge). So what expertise do you have backing your complaints about the design work coming out of Shiny?

Hey, I got this guy...

>>>Mantic

"So what expertise do you have backing up your complaints about the design work coming out of ShinY?"

Answer:

By the fact that I am the GAMER who purchased the product for entertainment. The designers's job is to make the game BELIEVABLE as possible--not unbelievable.
This is what separates GOOD game design from BAD game design. :P

Marvin is your only purpose on this board to
make negative comments on Messiah?
You might be a gamer but not a mature one.
Besides I read a while back that you were done talking about Messiah. You sound pretty bitter.



[This message has been edited by sebastian (edited 05-22-2000).]

Originally posted by Mantic:
> Half-Life "feels" right? What a load!
> Half-Life is one game where I felt completely conned.

That's weird. I don't doubt your experience, but felt completely the opposite way around - that HL's levels fitted in with the story, whereas Messiah's kind of had set pieces that had been designed in a void.

Why did we have such diametrically opposed experiences?

> A scripted scene now and again doesn't cut it.

Gosh. For me, those little vignettes *made* HL; the ability to read clues from your surroundings (including the cut scenes) was a key feature, IMO.

> Messiah's puzzles at least have been designed to have some rationale in the environment.

Again, I always felt that HL's were, too.

> Yes, I'll agree that a lot of areas are closed off in unrealistic ways, but for this game that is a GOOD aspect of level design.

I wouldn't disagree with this point, but perhaps what slightly bugged me was the feeling that the world had been designed around me. Whole buildings had been constructed and populated just to create a particular challenge.

> As for nitpickers,

Moi?

> So what expertise do you have backing your complaints about the design work coming out of Shiny?

I'll take "How much I enjoyed playing it".

Incidentally, I *did* actually enjoy playing Messiah. My post was to illustrate what I thought was its greatest weakness.

A. Wall.

Originally posted by Marvin:
> Hey, I got this guy...

Oh good. That seems to make 2 of us.

>>>Mantic

>By the fact that I am the GAMER who purchased the product

Careful, Marv. Believability is not *always* a good thing.

Airwall.

>>>Sebastian

It appears you see the TRUTH as negativity.

>>>Airwall

True. But when I am able to suspend belief this easily wrecks the entertainment value of the product.

For instance, I play Half-Life to see if it denies my ability to punch holes in it. It's been TWO years and I still have not been to do it. Not purposely, at least. The design and work that went into HL exposes the 'other' games considerably. I have YET to see the amount of detail that other games do that can EQUAL or BETTER half-Life.

Messiah wants to BETTER HL, it even calls the game out to the player---

The Medium Cop tells you at some point, "This is as far as you go, Half-Life!"

When I first saw this, I thought, "Ok we're in for some fun"

Little did I know.