US education

[MoreGun89]

My view of the current system.

"Oh, you like math? Use these formuli in a non applicable way! USE THEM!!!"

And I'm picturing the students brain on an ice cream cone, melting off and splaying on the floor. And really, who wants to clean up that mess? I can't blame kids for having the interest for learning forced out of them, I was one of those kids for most of my schooling. If what we were studying could and would be applied in a meaningful way, I'll say that my grades would have skyrocketed and probably most of the class's, too.

[Toph]

I've had the same experience. The older and slightly wiser me sees that it becomes useful eventually (for those who go into math related jobs anyway), which is probably where policy makers get their ideas: from the perspective of adults. But as a little tike, even if you see it, it's damn near impossible to motivate yourself for something so far in the future. It seems those in charge of education aren't really thinking from the perspective of kids, which they definitely need to if they're going to fix the education system. Find out what works for them and implement it rather than focus almost solely on standardized exams.

[Schofield]

I blame the parents. The current generation of students got the really shitty deal. Previous generations have ruined near everything for their children, and they don't seem to give any fucks when it comes to the consequences.

But this isn't really any different then the other problems America is facing. Old people screwing over young people, and neither of them willing to take action to fix things.

MY GRADE 8 MATH TEACHER ABUSED ME.

[Toph]

What's fun is that the current gen will probably do it to the next

[MoreGun89]

I see children going to school in cotton jumpsuits, in bubbles. With tablets at the desks with everything blocked...

[Schofield]

Originally Posted by Toph

What's fun is that the current gen will probably do it to the next

Probably.

Originally Posted by MoreGun89

I see children going to school in cotton jumpsuits, in bubbles. With tablets at the desks with everything blocked...

My sister is in high school now (which I was in four years ago). When I was there, if you were seen texting or doing anything with an electronic device, you were in severe trouble. Four years later, texting is completely fine, and students are encouraged to bring tablets if it helps them take notes faster.

Quite a big jump if you ask me, from acting like electronics were agents of Satan to encouraging students to use them.

[Mr. Matt]

Wait... the US has an education system?!

[Toph]

Then it goes the other way in uni. At least for some professors, especially sociology. The bastards keep doing studies that show such devices in the classroom lead to lower grades, so they ban them in their own. Curse them! How am I supposed to browse the internet all class without my computer!?

Oh wait

[Nemmerle]

One of the big problems I have with maths is that there is a small set of things that you need to have memorised to be able to do higher level maths. The addition and multiplication tables spring to mind. You can use a calculator for it but it's a poor patch. If you just want to multiply two numbers together, it's fine - but if you want to... anything above basis algebra... you can't do that higher level reasoning well if you've constantly got to stop and refer to the calculator.

But memorising most of the formula themselves is largely pointless other than that it occur in the normal process of using them. They either arise directly from understanding what something is - and can thus be derived with no real effort on the rare occasion that one needs them - or they don't form foundational concepts to further study. Or they do form foundational concepts but are only likely to be of use to someone going into a specialist area to which that particular formula is important.

I think maths has gone wrong in trying to take the extreme on both those points. One group said, "People need to understand what they're dealing with and then it becomes easy" and they were right. Another group said "People need to remember stuff" and they were also right.

However, what needs to be understood and what needs to be remembered are different things.

Memorise foundational concepts at a low level that are needed to support higher level abstractions - once the basic abstraction step at the low level is understood.

Understand higher level abstractions that are required less often, and thus gain creative freedom based on the low level.

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Then of course there are the more general flaws in the education system: A lack of relevance, a lack of reward for being wrong ( - the basis of all original discovery and learning: "That's.... odd...." ) the arbitrary and vicious rules, the lack of shared joy in learning.

...

The frequently terrible, verging on non-existent, parenting....

[Toph]

I lucked out at my highschool. After algebra, no more calculators allowed on quizes and exams. You don't need one for the basics of calc and stats, especially if you're clever in making the test questions. Too many students in previous years just shoved it into their magic math machine and had no idea what they were doing. I remember most of it just fine because I had to learn why it works the way it works.