"Tiocfaidh ár lá"

[Einherjar Silberio]

Greetings.

I've been getting a lot into the history of Ireland, the IRA, and other conflicts regarding nationalism and/or independence (I'm currently working on the Palestina-Israel conflict at school, so I got interested on other stuff.

So the my question right now arose when I planned to write "Tiocfaidh ár lá" on the back of my jacket (which I decided not to do because of the political weight the phrase has, as far as I know) and I just want to know, our of curiosity, what does that phrase mean to you around here? Does it only touch British members or other of you out there aswell?

To me, the phrase (that, AFAIK, means "Our day will come" or "our day will be delivered to us") has a meaning of freedom brought by the struggle against a larger, oppressive force (such as the Britain-IRA conflict during the 20's), or in my case, I look at the Pinochet-time in Chile where my parents and family fought, or the current Palestine conflict.

What are your thoughts on this?

NOTE: I don't want to create a big conflict, I'm just out to hear some opinions or so, I would like if the thread stayed peaceful and respectfull and did not fall into Pub-category, thanks

[Dreadnought[DK]]

I actually wrote my thesis about the Troubles, and one thing I soon came to realise is that, as a general rule, you should not try to appropriate sayings or slogans from conflicts that you do not have a historic claim to yourself (i.e. in this case if you're neither 'British' nor Irish) just because you think they're cool.
So stay away from slogans such as "800 years of crime", "don't be vague, kill a Taig", "Tiocfaidh ár lá" etc. You may like the sentiment, but in my opinion you don't have the 'right' to use them.
Especially if they are from conflicts that are that old and so steeped in history as this one.

[Rikupsoni]

Nothing. Been to Ireland, a nice country and all but not really interested in the Troubles. If I'd have to pick a side I'd probably support an unified Ireland but since most of the people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the union, nothing can be done with that.

Another reason why the conflict is repulsive is that it has a dark history of terrorism and it's rooted on catholics vs. protestants confrontation. As an atheist, it's not very interesting to see a division based on that.

[Nemmerle]

My interest in the conflict is basically along the lines Rikupsoni laid out. It has no emotional connection for me beyond the though that - as a Brit - it would perhaps be unwise to ever visit Northern Ireland.

[Dreadnought[DK]]

Originally Posted by Rikupsoni

Another reason why the conflict is repulsive is that it has a dark history of terrorism and it's rooted on catholics vs. protestants confrontation. As an atheist, it's not very interesting to see a division based on that.

The Troubles are not about religion. It's about politics and nationalism. The religious aspect is only used as a way of identifying the historical parties. They did not fight for a century because some people like the Pope and some people don't. It's about national belonging; not religious practices. The PIRA is a republican organisation, not a catholic one - likewise the UVF is a loyalist group, not a protestant one. Claiming the that the conflict is about catholics vs protestants is a gross simplification. It's like saying that the 'war on terror' is a war on Islam.

[Einherjar Silberio]

That's, IMO, a non-political stance is the best one could take regarding conflicts from other countries (unless, I guess, if you have been part of that conflict yourself)... And not commit a mistake I was about to.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought[DK]

I actually wrote my thesis about the Troubles, and one thing I soon came to realise is that, as a general rule, you should not try to appropriate sayings or slogans from conflicts that you do not have a historic claim to yourself (i.e. in this case if you're neither 'British' nor Irish) just because you think they're cool.
So stay away from slogans such as "800 years of crime", "don't be vague, kill a Taig", "Tiocfaidh ár lá" etc. You may like the sentiment, but in my opinion you don't have the 'right' to use them.
Especially if they are from conflicts that are that old and so steeped in history as this one.

That is exactly what I had in mind the whole time. Although I thinking mostly on taking the phrase into my experiences (More like bending the actuall phrase into another context or so...) or ideology, but what you say is really true

[Master Lindale Mustaparta]

I was always taught that it was the war between the Catholics and Protestants, and that being why Ireland will never be unified. Essentially, it is a Holy War. Because it involves politics, and involves Christianity, I have always just ignored them entirely. I have better things to do than watch a bunch of Christians fight and argue about which denomination is the correct one. It is the same god, so they both need to just stop the nonsense. Settle the matter over a case of Guinness.

[Dreadnought[DK]]

If you actually look into the roots of the conflict and the way it has developed since the 1960s, you'll quickly find that none of the belligerent fight and argue about which denomination is the correct one.
They've not been fighting for God. They have been fighting over more 'temporal' matters...

[Rikupsoni]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought[DK]

The Troubles are not about religion. It's about politics and nationalism. The religious aspect is only used as a way of identifying the historical parties. They did not fight for a century because some people like the Pope and some people don't. It's about national belonging; not religious practices. The PIRA is a republican organisation, not a catholic one - likewise the UVF is a loyalist group, not a protestant one. Claiming the that the conflict is about catholics vs protestants is a gross simplification. It's like saying that the 'war on terror' is a war on Islam.

Atleast it's not helping if they're officially saying the other side is going to burn in hell. Sure, it's not the main reason but it plays a role.

Religious denomination is a touchy subject in the UK/Ireland. Tony Blair converted into catholicism after his prime minister term ended after being a closet catholic for 30 years, and that wasn't celebrated by many.

[Master Lindale Mustaparta]

In either case, it is something I stay away from. The one time I went to Ireland, I wisely took the advice to not let anyone there know that I spend half my childhood in England. I decided best to not use my English accent, and to use my Norwegian accent instead. I was able to spend the entire week in Ireland without anyone pulling me into the fight.