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That the Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s flood rather than by geologic forces, more than three years later no review has ever been done and the book remains on sale at the park, according to documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

http://www.truthout.org/article/age-...r-creationists

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Ya think?

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Pretty sure I saw the age listed when I went a couple years back. I didn't see a book about Noah when I was there either. This was Winter of 2007, if I remember correctly.

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Google "Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate" for a myriad of sources. I'll take the thousands of blog entries, over your statement, but thanks.

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B and B: Grand Canyon age outrage?

I'll take what I personally heard and saw over what a couple of bloggers say. The book is probably real and I just missed it though. I'm quite certain the real age is stated. There was even a nice little display that showed the creation process and outlined the dates and whatnot.

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Who knows, it could have came into effect after your visit? Various sites date the news between 2006-8. Pretty wide gap actually. It could also be that the policy was discarded before your visit.

Ah pictures of the creationists book. http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2005...it-to-the.html

It could be that you missed it due to your own slant towards christianity in general?

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The article you posted was 2006 and referenced back to 2004. Like I said though, that's just regarding the date. It sounds like the book is definitely being sold which is a bit outrageous. Though if it's bringing in some good money to support the park it's understandable why even new park directors would keep selling it.

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Remember that this is conservative creationists. They're trying to apply the scientific laws of nature to something supernatural.

You can't use science to describe the events in The Bible. It's like trying to using classical mechanics to describe quantum theory.

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Wait a second. Are you implying that they're correct in this policy?

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Actually yes you can.

You should be the last one to be accusing others of being "slanted" in one direction or the other.

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Are you talking about science describing Biblical events?

There is scientific evidence of Biblical events, but some theories cling onto science too much.

Nope. The opposite actually. I see where I said what you thought, though.

I was thinking back to some theories I've heard that try to strictly wrap science around Biblical events (which aren't scientific) instead of trying to explain natural phenomena with Biblical events (which, again, aren't scientific). On both ends, you get crazy theories.

Think about it. How does a huge flood create gaps in the land below it? That erosion would have to be a supernatural event itself.

No, I don't believe that Noah's flood had any part in the Grand Canyon's creation. It's not impossible (if you account for supernatural events), but very highly unlikely.

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Wouldn't it be more like describing classical mechanics with quantum theory?

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No. My analogy was trying to use science to describe something that goes beyond scientific logic.

God doesn't have to obey scientific laws to do things.

For this case, the flood may have caused the canyon to be formed, but there would be no purpose in God to do that, and it's impossible scientifically for floodwater to create a canyon that fast no matter how deep the water was or how fast the water is flowing. You can do the math for the erosion rate for water coming in fast enough to cause the great flood, but we don't know exactly how deep the flood was (over Mt. Everest, but how much more), and that would be a key factor in explaining this scientifically. But if God did this, he wouldn't do it scientifically, so the whole argument fails altogether.

So, scientific theory doesn't support a rapid erosion of land on that scale. I'd imagine that those events don't even happen on the sea floor (or we would notice them).

The only way creationism could explain the creation of The Grand Canyon would be via a direct supernatural event.

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Your problem is your sources. It probably was a rumour in the more conservative blog community and jummped from one to the other, hence the high amount of casual non-factual sources. It's a pretty common effect in all blog communities. Which basically forces you to look for the original source when referring it anywhere.

Also there is absolutely no sense in floodwater of any amount making such a massive cannyon in such a short time. If there really were these massive amounts of water, they'd spill out and we'd be witnessing wider, more delta like erosion patterns. Since the current needed to create such a deep incission in such a short time calls absolutely staggering amounts of water.

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It's not a rumor. See My Visit to the Grand Canyon - The Panda's Thumb

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Again, the book is true. The idea that the rangers can't tell people the true age is false. From the link you posted.

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Old works for me!

((600th Post))

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Ok, if you take the Bible as the word of God that makes sense. If you take the Bible as the word of some camel drivers who lived a few thousand years ago using science (such as archeology) can be used to explain events thoguh. If there is a story about a devastating flood that destroyed the whole world you have to consider that the whole world as those people knew it was probably limited to the Euphrates/Tigris region. Then there is the problem that stories told from one generation to another have some exaggerations for dramatic effect, so instead of the whole world you probably just had an event that destroyed a few cities. That sounds pretty much like a natural disaster such as a tsunami. The idea that a natural disaster is the punishment of some angry god isn't exactly new either. And then there was perhaps some guy who survived the disaster (the ancient equivalent to those "dude dug out of rubble 3 weeks after earthquake" stories you hear on TV), so they keep making up stories about him as well. In the end you have an awesome story that a religious person can use to make some moral statements. If you're bad, God will drown you. If you're clever, you are prepared for natural disasters etc.

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Then why were scientific laws "created" in the first place?

To put limitations on the Sims that god has created? So we cant become too self aware?

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To be honest the flood of Noe is an adapted myth from a time long before the bible.
Unless I'm mistaken the basis of it formed the Gilgamesh flood myth.

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It is physically impossible to build an Ark that would hold 2 of every animal in the world, plus enough humans to have a saturated gene pool to prevent inbreeding. (I think you need like 120,000 people for that).

Having 2 of every animal is a childs' version of a survival story, but chances are, not every animal mates just because a female is around.

And how would you save animals non-native to the Mesopotamian area? (Bison, Pandas, Koalas, polar bears, penguins, etc).

And in order to flood the world, you would need to rise water up above the top of the Himilayan mountain range. There is not enough water in the sky, combined with frozen water on the planet, to raise sea levels anywhere near that much. If all water unfroze in the world and no clouds existed, water levels would not rise more than 500 feet.

Myth busted.