Re: The ultimate q.
 

I think space ends about 5000 parsecs beyond the Dagobah System

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Well if you watch Stargate you'll know that space is infinite with and infinite number of galaxys etc etc

Re: The ultimate q.
 

More universes?

It doesn't.

Big Bang. Our universe started from something. Therefore in order to expand, it must move it's boundaries, which are all curved. Therefore...the universe does have an edge and doesn't go on forever.

Evidence exists that shows that certain areas of the sky are actually growing more faint every passing year. In approximately 180,000,000,000 years, there won't be a single star in the night sky because the universe has grown so much that stars are spaced so far apart that no light ever be able to traverse the distance before the universe implodes.

As for black holes;

http://www.vt-2004.org/Background/In...fig2-small.jpg

See the big yellow cluster of stars in the very middle? That's where up to 10,000 black holes exist, all within 3 light years of the Galaxy's supermassive black hole, Sagitarius A, sucking away at the galaxy's core.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Murray Gell Mann had the idea of quarks forming hedrons (for example nucleons such as the proton or neutron).

If you are interested in this stuff you should get "a brief history of time" or "the Universe in a nutshell" by Stephen Hawking. He manages to explain very complicated things without any equations and in a very interesting way.
There is also another book, by Kip Thorn, (something like "space warps and time curvatures") which covers the same topics but is a bit more detailed and shows interesting ways how physics can be or are used in science fiction.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

With a 'U', the wormhole theory can be explained. An 'O' shape could have wormholes, but they would take only a little less time to traverse than if you were to go around the 'O' to the point you would reach with the wormhole. With a 'U', the two legs could be quite close and so a wormhole could significantly decrease the time it takes to get from one end to the other compared to going around the conventional way.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Makes sense, though I would have thought an O shape would be eternal.

Talking of which (galaxies and what not) it was mentioned earlier that the stars in the sky are getting futher away due to the universe expaning. Though, it is the universe expanding, not our galaxy, and it is the galaxy that has the stars of which we can see in the night sky...

Re: The ultimate q.
 

I think if ya go so far, their's a big sign saying- 'Zone ends, nosey f*uckers'.
Well just an opinion :)

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Wouldn't it just be... well, fucked to find that...

You can see a human spaceship several thousand years from now getting to the edge and once there, they get a sign pop up saying 'universe ends here' :uhoh:

Anyhow, feedback on my post above would be nice... :deal:

Re: The ultimate q.
 

But also.. If you're travelling (generally travelling at whatever speed) you slow time down... Crap.. You didn't go back in time.. You only slow it down.. Nevermind.. Anyways.. I think there are no such thing as more universes, because what's between them? There's just one big universe. The sphere theory seems to be the one I believe in.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

I thought they figured out the whole expanding universe-theory by watching other galaxies.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

How do you find the end of a circle? I think that the universe is circular in shape, so that rather than hitting "the end", you just keep going.

It cant possibly just end. Space is not a liquid, solid, or even really a gas, so over time and a distance, it doesn't just thin out and disipate.

Too bad we will never know. It would be interesting to place bets on who is right ;)

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Well, the problem I have with the circle theory is that you usually need at least one point outside of the circle before you can think about one.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

What do you mean by this?

Also, each Galaxy (which there are millions of) are flying around the universe (this being the big sphere thing)!? In between these Galaxies there (put simply) is nothing!

Just as there is nothing between the Earth and the Moon, that is what would be between Galaxies, just in a bigger space and lasting longer. Anyway, getting back to a previous point. If the 'universe' is expanding, that does not answer the fact as to why the stars in the sky are disappearing. it's the universe expanding, not the galaxy.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

I meant that to imagine a circle you need a two-dimensional space with one central point and several points which have the same distance to that central point. If the Universe is a circle, where is it's central point and all the rest of the two-dimensional space which usually surrounds a circle?

I'm not sure what you mean with disappearing stars at the sky.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

The centre point would be in the middle... Would it not!?

Scientists believe that the universe is growing, their proof of this is that the Stars in the night sky are slowly disappearing, thus proof that the universe is expanding.

However, the starts we see at night, are not that of other galaxies, but that of other Suns in other solar systems.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

I think the point Ash is trying to make that if the univeres is expanding, as if we are on a converybelt, with everything moving furthur away from the start but staying the same distance from one object to another eg. the earth and a star. They would both be moving away from the centre of the universe at the same rate so why would the star appear to get furthur away?

The answer to this is that is gravity, gravity of our solar system keeps it together, the earth (and other planets) stays the same distance from the sun becuse they are all constant masses (well not quite but close enough during our lifetimes). However other galaxies or solar systems are not bound by our sun's gravitational pull so after the intial bang they have accelerated away from the starting point, as have we but a different mass affects our speed. Basically anything within the gravitation field of an object will stay the same distance relative to it but things outside this gravtional field will not.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

I don't think we will ever have the technical knowledge to figure out the true answer to this question. However, there are some that might say that if the universe is endless, we are the center. This would be true if everything went on for an infinite amount of time in every direction.

Next time someone asks you if you are the center of the universe, you can tell them, "Of course!"

Re: The ultimate q.
 

This I did think of, however would not have thought it an effect on our galaxy. The black hole in the centre of our galaxy is keeping all Suns at a rotation, these Suns keeping the planets, and planets keeping the moons.

I could not figure out what effect the growth of the Universe would have on a Single Galaxy.

Something from the past? it is a well known fact that we are not in the centre of the Universe as we know it. This was a belief at some point in humanity, though no longer.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

If the universe is endless, everything is the center.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Essentialy, if there were nothing outside of the universe, it would just be apart of the universe as open space. Beyonde this dimension there is another dimension, another possibility. We are one possibility, in an array of infinite others. We see a fraction of the world, one possibility, where the dice roll an 11 here they roll a 7 in another possibility. So beyond this fraction is the next. This makes up the multiverse, the sum of possibility. It is possible that our multiverse is but a fraction of a larger mass, and thus is a possibility. In theory this could result in multiversal bonding chains and supermolecules, and since that is a possibility then that possibility is may or may not me true in this universe, but in this or another multiverse it may be true. But then again if this is possible then really, all things are possible in one way or another and this chains and groupings go on infinitely building structures, the basis of the atom even and thus the beginning and end are the same, Alpha and Omega. The endless angles and projections of the infinite shape, the sphere, from which all things are built and all things end. Possibility Infinite- Jacques Heyer

Re: The ultimate q.
 

there is an end to space, and its always expanding, well, according, to the inflation theory

Re: The ultimate q.
 

That is a way of looking at it, however not the best one. If something is endless, nothing is in the centre, everything is everywhere.

Regardless of that, there has to be a 'centre' of the universe at some point. Whether we will ever be able to calculate this is another matter, however, it is there.

Talk about confusion. This is (although informative) extremely baffling. Do you understand it yourself? If so, could you please put it in more... 'basic' terms?

There is an end regardless of it expanding or not. If it isn't then it has an end, what is after that is simply unknown. Now, if it is expanding, there would be an end, though it would just never be in the same place.

As the universe grows, the 'end' would therefore be growing with it, thus be moving along with the growth, would it not?

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Essentialy, the basis of existance is possibility, which forms from existence. Okay, thats the short extremely complicated version.
The long way round.

This universe is a fraction of a whole, one possible way things go, however another universe represents another part of the fraction, and a different possible way things go. Ultimately the sum of all the possibilities is the multiverse, which contains all the different possible existences. Atleast in one possible existence there is a multiverse connected to this one, this is the basis of multiversial bonding. From massive chains and other groupings form particles, some of which group into a larger mass while others orbit. This should start seeming familar to something you learned along time ago from this point on. No time to explain the rest

Re: The ultimate q.
 

That reminds me of that Star trek TNG episode where there were multiple enterprises from the other parralel universes in the same place and that crap. is that what it is supposed to be? where if one person can have the choice and a million possible outcomes?

or am i confused?

Re: The ultimate q.
 

It has nothing to do with the TNG episode, which has more to do with time than dimensions

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Right, I'm still confused :uhoh: - Maybe it's because I haven't woken up yet...

Are you on about the one with the three Enterprises (Past, Present & Future) - one having the htree necelles? - If so, as Chemix2 is correct as the episode was based on Q messing around with time & Picard.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

It's oblivion..

Its the only thing or word that accurately discribes what doesn't lie beyond the universe...becuase nothing is actuall a place empty...

oblivion is non existance

Re: The ultimate q.
 

This planet is finite. We have explored its surface, and it is only a matter of time before we have explored its oceans and its very core. We ourselves are finite; our lifespans are quite limited, and eventually, we all know that our species will become extinct. Everything we can build has a limited lifespan, meaning that any memories of humanity will also fade away and become none-existent. And then another finite species will come to dominate. Eventually, our star will expire and the cycle of life on Earth will end. Earth may well break apart, and go on to become another planet in billions of years time.

Everything in our lives is finite in terms of time and space. Which is why most people cannot even conceive of the idea of something being infinite (for instance, those blokes who are still trying to work out 'pi' as though there will ever be an end). But just because we cannot comprehend something being infinite, it doesn't mean that something infinite cannot exist. That would be beyond egotistical.

What scientists have shown is that the various galaxies of the universe are getting further apart, probably due to them all being formed in a single explosion of sorts. But, no such explosion could ever have taken place if there was 'nothing' before. By its very nature, an explosion of any kind needs 'something'. I suggest that the universe as we know it is simply one of many, occupying an infinite dimension of space which has no end of any kind. I would also suggest that this 'Farzleverse' (which is what I am going to name it from now on) was never 'created', and will never be 'destroyed', it simply 'is'.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

The universe isn't infinite, it's expanding too fast for us to reach.. The expanding will eventually slow down, but they say it won't stop. I might have understood the text I was reading at school today, but there is something called "dark energy" or something, it like the opposite of a black hole. It creates a negative vacuum, and that makes the universe expand.

If the expanding ever stops, it would most likely turn around and there's where the "Big Crunch" theory comes running in the door. It's an backwards version of Big Bang.

But after all.. I think that we are dead before that happens, or moved to another planet\moon\sun (whatever) :)

Edit: 70 percent of the cosmos IS dark energy.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

This I don't believe, Humanity will rise at some point, or destroy themselves whilst trying to do so. You make it seem as though nature will take care of us like it has done previously. The only way it can do that is to blow up the globe before we reach the stars.

Dinosaures, they lived long before us, though did never invent planes, boats, submarines or space shuttles. We are a unique species, and one that will exist for quite some time.

You have a very nice way of looking at this topic, though, not completely agreed upon, respected :)

Why slow down? What would be the cause in this (if anything) do you know?

If it turned around, it wouldn't matter if we were on another planet, we'd still be doomed. There is no way of stopping the collapse of space.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

They didnt invent nukes either. The only reason they died out is cos of a mumma comet.

Yup, if were still alive and that happens were f**ked, doubt we will be though.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

If we don't kill ourselves, which is quite likely, then nature will do it for us.

The fact of the matter is, spreading to more than one planet doesn't eliminate the risk of extinction, it just reduces it. If, for example, it is discovered that there is a habitable planet within a few lightyears of us and we establish a colony there, a nearby supernova is still going to obliterate both systems. And if you cast your mind back to the neutron star explosion which spread radiation across a 50,000 lightyear radius, you'll realise that cosmic devastation isn't limited to a localised scale. That particular explosion needed to have only been 10 lightyears closer to irreparably damage our atmosphere and trigger a mass extinction, by the way.

The fact of the matter is, the universe, however large or old it is, is an exceptionally dangerous place. The fact that we are still alive to talk about it, despite the number of near misses we've had over the last few million years, is almost enough reason to believe in god, because it sure is a miracle. Humanity would have to have technology more powerful than the universe itself to survive if nature decided to destroy us. The extinction of humanity is inevitable.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Give humanity time, they may very well create technology like this. You say no, and that we wont, but some scientists *think* they have created a universe themselves, though it was unstable - this I remember reading somewhere on some website, though whether it is true is a different matter, thus the *think* they did.

Give humanity time, we can do almost anything. Think of what we can achieve now, and what was thought impossible. It's just down to whether we will get wiped out before we get the chance.

This is true, when / if the universe collapses that will be the end of us all.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Well.. Nothing is forever, or what? I believe that it turns around in the end.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

The only artificial universe I am aware of is a computer model used for mapping purposes. Which is hardly likely to save anyone from a rogue black hole ripping all of the surrounding solar systems to pieces, or a supernova blasting planets apart.

It actually is impossible to make something with more energy than the universe itself, because that would require you to draw all of the energy from the universe for your own use. Which would, incidentally, destroy everything, alive or dead.

Simply put, humans will never be able to withstand even half of the things that the universe can throw at them. Your idealism won't change that -- humans might be the most impressive animals around at the moment, but we aren't gods.


There are a multitude of theories regarding the end of (or lack thereof) of the universe. The Big Crunch, the Big Rip, Heat Death, the Big Freeze, etc, etc.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

I read this in some magazine once. But there's some crazy ass theory that says something along the lines of this.....


Our universe is not infinite. The end can only be found, if you know how to find it. When you leave our universe, you are non existent. There is no such thing as time, physics, anything, wherever the hell you are, there are infinite numbers of different universes, so radically different than ours, to the degree that even matter as we know it doesn't exist. Stuff that is not capable of a human to imagine. NEW colors, new dimensions. All that fun stuff. And the answer to all this can be discovered in one massive, but simple, universal formula. Something simple as e=mc2, but can explain everything/


I think that theory is screwed up beyond belief, but just thinking about it is sooooo cool. '




:wtf:

Re: The ultimate q.
 

A very nice way of looking at it, and I can believe that too, though, if everything is different, and this can't support humans, then when we get there, we would seice to exist, would we not!?

Re: The ultimate q.
 

And by the way.. who said that aliens can't live without water\air and such? Well.. We can't be so sure of that, because there's a little chance of meeting aliens that is very similar to humans.. they might breathe crypton and shit gold.. :naughty:

Re: The ultimate q.
 

I don't know if anyone's said this already because I don't have time to read the entire thread.

This isn't neccesaraily true. It depends on the size of the black hole if you'll get "spaghettified" or not. Larger Black holes have a larger circle of gravity around them so the gravity would get better distributed upon you.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

This is an illistration of a Dice hurling toward the event horizon of a black hole and the effects..
These are the moments before impact
http://forums.filefront.com/attachme...1&d=1133496028

the dice is destroyed and fragmented from a 1st person perspective

but from a distance observer the dice appears to hover forever above the event horizon.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

It shows how it changes color due to red shift from the distant observer and follows a spiraling path. But then seems t slow down and hang there.

From a POV of a person perched on one of the Corners of the Dice...you can see the dice begin to warp a few miles above the event horzon A photon sphere appears around the event horizon from tapped light orbiting the center.

The pieces begin to elongate and fracture. Star light from this view point is blue due to blue shifted light accelerating toward you and the black hole.


Black holes are much like the door to the begining of the universe.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

All black holes (regardless of outer size) is still going to be small and the same size deep inside.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

The univers is so big I can keep myself entertained for the duration of my life. Let you know if I get bored and wanna check out the end of everything -aka- big ass wall.

Re: The ultimate q.
 

A wall, huh? :)

Re: The ultimate q.
 

Oh god, we had the same exact discussion in Physics class today. You know, i'm lucky i've made my mind up that the universe is infinite and that you can't visualize everything.

It hurt my brain to try to visualize space, especially if you look at it as space expanding like a tear drop and what would go outside it, assuming the universe is not round/square.